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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    He was rushing headlong into those cops? In what fucking reality?
    Watch how he approaches them. He is confronting them. What is that man doing there ?

    This is what i saw

    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    Trump was siding with the cops? BULLSHIT. Trump was siding with conspiracy theories that this man was some kind of "agent provocateur".

    "He comes up with some theory" JFC....

    DE, you need to get your head examined. Seriously.
    Tell me what the man was doing there. Has he made a statement ?

    Is it advisable for anyone to do that when a phalanx of riot cops approaches.

    No, it is not. Not in the US, not anywhere in the world.

    Those guys are all pumped up, they are not in a talking mood.

    My experience with these people was watching them in France. CRS i think they're called. They wear berets.

    They come charging, screaming and hit anything that is in their path.

    Only course of action, is out of their way and quick.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Jun 20,, 18:03.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    What he Tweeted was "When The Looting Starts, The Shooting Starts."

    That specific phrase has a very racist history in the US.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/86481...hooting-starts
    What is the deterrence value of that sentence to looters ? Is it credible so as to prevent more deaths.

    That is how i took that statement.

    Interestingly, Trump clarifies that when looting starts people get shot in the violence. No implication of state violence.

    I take it differently. If there is a law & order situation the cops will intervene with force if necessary.

    Your article is saying it was used in riots in the 60s. It was said specifically to blacks.

    But is there any connection to colour in that statement ? I'm not seeing any.

    It's a direct threat to looters, any looters.

    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    And if violently shoving to the ground a senior citizen and refusing aid is your idea of positive police behavior then you are beyond the pale.

    My brother is a recently retired family court judge in Buffalo, NY. He knows the cops in this case. We talked extensively this past Sunday. He could not go into specifics for obvious reasons but one of the 2 cops in question appeared before him a few times in family court, and not as a witness.

    These guys are off the charts bad...the entire unit is bad news and that is well know in the BPD and courts.
    Senior citizen does not come into it. These guys are seeing someone walk directly into their path.

    What was this man doing there and why did he do it ?
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Jun 20,, 17:33.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    Yeah i did, same answer

    What was that 75yr old expecting to happen by rushing headlong into those cops ?

    I saw that clip earlier on and they were trying to show how these cops are brutal and uncaring.

    But this is not like that senior couple in the car that got treated so badly.

    This guy challenged them. Does not end well when you interfere with operations like that.

    This is the point where his intent comes up, who he represents and who put him up to it.

    So yeah, Trump is siding with the cops. He comes up with some theory but that is the gist.
    He was rushing headlong into those cops? In what fucking reality?

    Trump was siding with the cops? BULLSHIT. Trump was siding with conspiracy theories that this man was some kind of "agent provocateur".

    "He comes up with some theory" JFC....

    DE, you need to get your head examined. Seriously.

    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

    And if violently shoving to the ground a senior citizen and refusing aid is your idea of positive police behavior then you are beyond the pale.
    That's why I was hoping he just hadn't read the article....guess I was giving DE too much credit.

    Leave a comment:


  • astralis
    replied
    BTW, for all the bellyaching about rioting-- the last week or so have seen the most concrete actions against both the symbolic and systemic issues of racism in policing since Ferguson.

    it's sad as hell when the political system in the US is so dorked up that only massive protests and the potential for violence force action. does anyone think the Senate GOP would be bringing up a police reform bill if people were quiet about this?

    Leave a comment:


  • Oracle
    replied
    DE, Trump should not have meddled into state's jurisdiction (I feel), i.e., law enforcement. There was no need to give the statement 'when the looting....', psychologically speaking he wants to shoot people who loot. This won't find resonance with most sane people, as lives lost due to gun violence is high in US, and the President doesn't define law & order. Also calling in the Nat Guards shows an abject failure of the states to contain the violence that unleashed from the protests. Now, my dislike for extreme positions is known, but see this -> Police point finger at gangs and local groups for riot damages, contradicting Trump's claims.

    And this, Donald Trump to restart election rallies on key slavery date. He divides the country with his tweets, his speeches, his actions, well everything. How can someone..............anyone insult a dead person (McCain). I might have personal enmity with someone, but that ends with my or his death. Donald Trump is not the norm, he is the exception in American multiculturalism. Once he's gone, someone who repeats him will never win, at least for another 20 years. I understand why the Republicans are not saying anything, they're power hungry politicians after all.

    Modi and Trump cannot be compared. Just 1 example: corruption. Corruption in India is endemic, while in US people don't have to pay bribes to get a death certificate. This is my personal experience. Indians got sick of Congress, corruption, nepotism, favouritism, so many things.

    Leave a comment:


  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    Trump saying when the looting starts, the shooting begins is exactly the message your country needed to hear.
    What he Tweeted was "When The Looting Starts, The Shooting Starts."

    That specific phrase has a very racist history in the US.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/86481...hooting-starts

    And if violently shoving to the ground a senior citizen and refusing aid is your idea of positive police behavior then you are beyond the pale.

    My brother is a recently retired family court judge in Buffalo, NY. He knows the cops in this case. We talked extensively this past Sunday. He could not go into specifics for obvious reasons but one of the 2 cops in question appeared before him a few times in family court, and not as a witness.

    These guys are off the charts bad...the entire unit is bad news and that is well know in the BPD and courts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    We have no idea who will be allowed to vote, what percent will try to vote, or how the vote will be counted. And, since their hasn’t been a Presidenial election since 2016, we have no recent history to guide us. Just polls, and laws.
    Simple test is whether voter turnout is more in 2020 compared to 2016.

    Oracle thinks people will and should come out in numbers.

    I'm saying don't count on it. Not getting into the different ways you can vote. Just whether more peope show up at the booths which would be a reasonable assumption going by how much heat Trump generates.

    I hailed his win in 2016 as victory for American democracy. People were getting apathetic thinking only big money and the establishment matters. Heard benny say this many times. That's how his generation thinks.

    The average guy with a vote don't count. Well, that got shown to be false. The deplorables got their win.

    It must have appeared miraculous he ever won given how unanimous the media was that he had no chance. This must go some way to explaining how tight his base is. He won against all odds. They see him getting slammed on a daily basis which only makes them support him more.

    They've said the more Modi got attacked, the stronger he became. Why doesn't that hold for Trump ?

    We are past any sense at this point and well into emotional territory.

    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    When he Trumpet rants and raves about Law and Order, it reminds me that even Al Capone donated to the Policeman’s Benevolent Fund on occasion.
    When i see looting taking place in cities across the US what do you want him to say ?

    The better question is why the looting even happened. Some PD's might have been overwhlemed by the unusual increase in disorder.

    That's when the National guard gets called in.

    Why call them or when to call them.

    Thinking in some cities has to be, these protests started as a result of police brutality. So sending in the cops early only plays into their hands. In other words it will lead to more unrest. Let it burn itself out and not spread.

    Better might be to sacrifice some shops, insurance will take care of it.

    Once the scenes get scary the public will support a police action.

    That is when you send in the police.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Jun 20,, 14:14.

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  • DOR
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    This would be a reasonable assumption. Young people coming out to vote because they did not in sufficient numbers last time but reading around i got the impression that they can't be counted on to do it. Voter turnouts since the last election should have increased but does not seem that way.
    We have no idea who will be allowed to vote, what percent will try to vote, or how the vote will be counted. And, since their hasn’t been a Presidenial election since 2016, we have no recent history to guide us. Just polls, and laws.

    When he Trumpet rants and raves about Law and Order, it reminds me that even Al Capone donated to the Policeman’s Benevolent Fund on occasion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    Didn't even bother to actually read the article yet again, did you. *facepalm*
    Yeah i did, same answer

    What was that 75yr old expecting to happen by rushing headlong into those cops ?

    I saw that clip earlier on and they were trying to show how these cops are brutal and uncaring.

    But this is not like that senior couple in the car that got treated so badly.

    This guy challenged them. Does not end well when you interfere with operations like that.

    This is the point where his intent comes up, who he represents and who put him up to it.

    So yeah, Trump is siding with the cops. He comes up with some theory but that is the gist.

    And what the hell is Cuomo going on about. I lived in NYC, have never lived in a city that was crawling with so many cops.

    So it comes as a big surprise to see these shops get looted in Manahattan and the cops aren't even around.

    Where were they ? response time is 5 mins tops in that place.

    Who told them to stand down. Why were they taking their time.

    Trump saying when the looting starts, the shooting begins is exactly the message your country needed to hear.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Jun 20,, 13:47.

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  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
    It seems in the healthcare industry the "free market" has ended up creating a massive corrupt bureaucracy which provides zero value addition but sucks in huge amounts of money from the pockets of common people into a black hole. It is a giant socialist job-creation scheme that ironically may only be tackled by actually socializing healthcare. It would be funny if it wasn't tragic.

    Just provides further proof that healthcare cannot be treated as a commodity. It just does not work, unless you're ok with large numbers of people suffering because they cannot afford it.
    The insulin example is just a reminder that some things are too important to turn over to people driven primarily by the desire to make profits. Makes me thankful for the evil 'socialized medicine' that Australia has. Sometimes American exceptionalism leads to remarkable achievements, sometimes it leads to very poor outcomes.

    Thanks to everyone who chipped in to explain this unholy mess. Very enlightening.

    Leave a comment:


  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    Trump's siding with the cops which you would expect given the law & order situation.

    He sees it as a one off in a large number of encounters with more nefarious types
    Didn't even bother to actually read the article yet again, did you. *facepalm*

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    I found a good quote from fivethirtyeight.org that explains that gentle up-and-down of his numbers:
    If we consider the 5% as a unit over time more 5%'s will join or move away. So the index grows but it isn't enough to affect the difference between the second set of total approve/disapprove numbers. Difference between the 'total' columns is smaller.

    The index is the difference between strongly approve & dissaprove. Or how far apart partisans are.

    Could we see the index as a polarisation index ?

    Negative double digits means country is more polarised than single digits on the issue of the day with some lag

    This should give some clues how to interpret it. There could be different issues adding up here and not just one big one.

    The index goes from -16 to -19 so just 3 points from May 25 to this day. That is the effect of the riots.

    The difference with covid is 10 points March to this day. Lockdowns or not, and all the other issues over handling.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Jun 20,, 02:55.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
    How unhinged can you be? And how can Republican Senators still ignore it?

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...lo-cops-308716
    Trump's siding with the cops which you would expect given the law & order situation.

    He sees it as a one off in a large number of encounters with more nefarious types
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Jun 20,, 02:46.

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    What about his rallies ? he's got to be smiling a lot for those.
    Big difference between smile and laugh

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
    How unhinged can you be? And how can Republican Senators still ignore it?
    Trump's insanity will only get worse. Much worse. I've said this before and I'll say until I'm blue in the face: Time is not on that man's side.

    As for Republican Senators...well, they have to ignore it. If they take one side or the other, they're screwed. And they know it.

    The problem when you're dancing with a rabid animal like Trump is that sooner or later the music stops. All they can do is pray that they get elected for another term before then.

    Leave a comment:

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