2020 American Political Scene

[astralis]

1.) George Floyd didn't need to be an angel to deserve professional treatment by the police. a knee to the neck for 9 minutes is not it.

2.) US police kill roughly 1000 people a year. that's likely a significant undercount because department reporting of police shootings is voluntary.

3.) for quick comparison, UK police killed 3 people last year. the UK has a population of 67 million. the US has a population of 328 million.

[GVChamp]

Local US police forces killing lots of people means they are also killing lots of white people. This is deliberately framed as black issue, not a generalized police brutality issue.

Emphasis on LOCAL US police forces. Americans are largely not being killed by Park Rangers and the US Marshals. Police shootings vary substantially by department and region. Some states shoot people a lot, some don't shoot so much, and racial disparities are different. Hell, in Denver, you're more likely to be shoot as a white person than a black person.

This has substantial implications when you can address the vast majority of police killings using already existing strategies that have been implemented in places like New York City. Instead we're talking about ending QI (stupid), abolishing police unions (stupid for the stated reasons though I'm on board if we can dump teacher's unions too), defunding the police (roflmao-level stupid), paying out all settlements from police pensions (wut?), etc.

Also, ahhhhh, professional expectations are going to vary massively, not in the least based on the wage structure and the general shortage. We've been looking at a growing shortage of police officers for the better part of a decade, and now it's just getting worse.

[Mihais]

1.) George Floyd didn't need to be an angel to deserve professional treatment by the police. a knee to the neck for 9 minutes is not it.

2.) US police kill roughly 1000 people a year. that's likely a significant undercount because department reporting of police shootings is voluntary.

3.) for quick comparison, UK police killed 3 people last year. the UK has a population of 67 million. the US has a population of 328 million.

1.Enjoy https://youtu.be/f5eYvDToQgQ. Then opine what is so unprofessional about their behaviour.

2.Good.So they should. A lot of those shootings are recorded by camera.One can find them,watch,then open the mouth(or use the keybord).True,scoring political points or virtue signaling might be hurt a little.Don’t know if it counts for the Social Credit Score(this is still sarcasm,but I don’t know for how long).

Meanwhile,riots killed a lot more folks than are killed by the cops while innocent,untold damage,race relations you can bet your salary are down,China has confirmed a new opening for unconventional warfare.Your choice,but staying within the confines of reality might help more than exagerating “systemic racism’’,’’Oh my God,cops are killing en masse’’.

3.And the Slovak police kills more than 3.Apples vs oranges.Perhaps those folks at risk should try going to school then get employed.Should help.

4.Fact is if one says “all lives matter’’ gets branded a racist scum and might be fired.You guys are too tensed on these issues.Recently a White kid of 5 was killed execution style in front of his family by a black.This stuff does not make national and international news.But gets eventually found out.And it creates a potent mixture of frustration and resentment.Which results in division.

[statquo]

All 5 per year.Sure.What is your opinion?While you think on it,let’ consider how many of the handful killed by the pooolice studied this documentary

https://youtu.be/OEvMc-K8XHY

Btw,Saint George the Riot Maker had his angel wings clipped a bit. Turns out he was a counterfeiter junkie.You can’t pay the dealer in counterfeit currency,they find it good reason to increase black on black crime.
Not sure if HE still counts as killed by the poooulice.

Lmaoooo. Apologize to everyone for contributing this terrible post.

[statquo]

1.Enjoy https://youtu.be/f5eYvDToQgQ. Then opine what is so unprofessional about their behaviour.

The part where they killed him?

[tantalus]

1.) George Floyd didn't need to be an angel to deserve professional treatment by the police. a knee to the neck for 9 minutes is not it.

2.) US police kill roughly 1000 people a year. that's likely a significant undercount because department reporting of police shootings is voluntary.

3.) for quick comparison, UK police killed 3 people last year. the UK has a population of 67 million. the US has a population of 328 million.

You will need to account for the significant difference in suicide rates currently between uk and usa and the fact in the uk people wont kill themselves with death by cop. Nevertheless you are completely right and the difference is huge.

I think the evidence reasonably points that american police shoot far, far too many people. It's also reasonable to hope that america can get the number down with targetted reforms but because everyone in america can be potentially carrying a concealed weapons given your gun culture, it seems unlikely you can get the level down to other western nations. Just look at Japans insane numbers.

A potentially controversial suggestion which definitely shouldnt be controverisal is that the american public needs to be educated on how to deal with the police, not just the police on how to deal with the public. It's just a reality, downside to living in a society in love with guns. Any movement that could be construed as reaching for a weapon, any physical struggle that could be open up a 1% probability that you could in theory reach for police officers gun could lead to your death. Therefore, the public needs SOP for how to behave and never to deviate. Thats just the practical reality of there being a gun at every encounter. In the uk most police arent armed. That said it is a combination of factors at confluece in the usa, not just the ubiquity of guns.

But let be crystal clear, american police clearly have a problem of shooting too many unarmed civilians and your police force needs reform and that reform can save lives and help build trust. Many things can be true at once.

[snapper]

One possible reason for this is that the UK has stricter gun laws and therefore does not require armed Police all over the place.

[tantalus]

One possible reason for this is that the UK has stricter gun laws and therefore does not require armed Police all over the place.

seems a likely contributing factor

[astralis]

GVChamp,

ocal US police forces killing lots of people means they are also killing lots of white people. This is deliberately framed as black issue, not a generalized police brutality issue.

this is both, not "either/or".

it can be perfectly true, at the same time, that the police too often resort to shooting in general-- and that blacks are being shot/killed at disproportionately high rates.

also, despite the bevy of police reforms after Ferguson, the number of people shot/killed have remained steady. this is a good indicator that the reforms are not particularly effective.

Also, ahhhhh, professional expectations are going to vary massively, not in the least based on the wage structure and the general shortage. We've been looking at a growing shortage of police officers for the better part of a decade, and now it's just getting worse.

:shrug:

police officers are there to deter/manage crime. if crime rates in the US continue to go down year by year even with a "growing shortage", then that calls into question if there actually is a shortage at all. if crime rates start spiking, then more police officers may be a part of the solution.

[Officer of Engineers]

1.Enjoy https://youtu.be/f5eYvDToQgQ. Then opine what is so unprofessional about their behaviour.

I will let American police speak for themselves.

[DOR]

THAT IS THE FREAKING SUBJECT! The POLICE is TASKED WITH PROTECTING THE PEOPLE! Guess who is killing Blacks. Guess who the POLICE TARGETS in ORDER TO PROTECT BLACKS!

Do you get it?

No sir, I do not.
Read what I wrote.
Look at America today.
Figure it out.

Edit:
The issue is police shootings.
Not "people" shootings, but "police" shootings.
There's a difference: the police have the responsibility to act rationally; non-police shooters do not.
Confusing "more Blacks kill Blacks than cops kill Blacks" with "cops kill Blacks way out of proportion" is not helpful.

[Officer of Engineers]

No sir, I do not.
Read what I wrote.
Look at America today.
Figure it out.

Edit:
The issue is police shootings.
Not "people" shootings, but "police" shootings.
There's a difference: the police have the responsibility to act rationally; non-police shooters do not.
Confusing "more Blacks kill Blacks than cops kill Blacks" with "cops kill Blacks way out of proportion" is not helpful.

No, you don't get it. The reason why Blacks are being shot by police is that they're standing in between Black criminals who wants to shoot Black victims. 80% of crimes done on Blacks are done by Blacks. Guess who stands between criminals and victims. The police.

If 1% of black killings are done by police, then 99% are not. Then the sheer volume of violence is what facing cops. What do you expect the cops to do to protect the victims? Use harsh language?

Even that 1%, how much of that is actually crimes or justified shootings? George Flyod is a criminal act. No question. Even cops are disgusted. Al Sharpton performed his eulogy. In the same month, he performed a eulogy for a little girl gunned down by gangs. After years of seeing this, I don't give a a damn how much mental help you got or how much training to hold back, your first instinct is to shoot first and ask questions later.

I have an understanding of how police might have felt. UNPROFOR saw a hell of a lot of snipers. We used APCs to shield pedestrians crossing the streets. But do you understand the temptation to let loose the GPMG down range on the building housing the snipers? You don't because there might be human shields in there.

Yes, there are bad cops and they should be found and corrected but to paint all of this as a systematic failure IGNORES the little girls who are gunned down. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. Either we don't put cops in a position where they have to make the choice, like the Nigerians did in UNPROFOR who stayed in their barracks and not come out to patrol, or you risk George Flyod incidents to stand between criminals and victims (Belgrade Chinese Embassy bombing).

In other words, the REASON why police are THERE shooting blacks IS BECAUSE WE PUT THEM THERE!

And again, YOU CANNOT SOCIAL ENGINEER AWAY THE CRIMINALS! Again, Mao, Pol Pot, and Tito had tried.

Incidently, everyone is calling for community policing. We won't ever go back to that? Why? Because that means more cops and more money. It's damned cheaper to put one cop in a car to patrol 30 square blocks than to put a cop in every neighbourhood.

[tantalus]

Confusing "more Blacks kill Blacks than cops kill Blacks" with "cops kill Blacks way out of proportion" is not helpful.

Unfortunately its not possible, or atleast very difficult to separate the two imo using the BLM suggestions and narrative. If there really isn't a pandemic of racist cops shooting black people for their skin colour, but a smaller problem, you risk reducing the amount and quality of policing in poor neighbourds. In other words, you risk more black people getting killed, not fewer. Those people deserve better, not policies that make people who don't live in those communities feel better, while they are subjected to an increase in criminal violence.

Murders tend to be very concentrated geographically and to a small number of individuals, the easiest way to reduce the rate in the short term is to focus humane but quality policing into those areas. Longer term you would ideally tackle poverty and your approach to the war on drugs. Gun culture is way beyond fixing for atleast a generation.

[DOR]

OK, OK.
You are all right and I am all wrong.
Cops don’t kill people, guns kill people.
Let’s get rid of the guns.

[bonehead]

1.) George Floyd didn't need to be an angel to deserve professional treatment by the police. a knee to the neck for 9 minutes is not it.

2.) US police kill roughly 1000 people a year. that's likely a significant undercount because department reporting of police shootings is voluntary.

3.) for quick comparison, UK police killed 3 people last year. the UK has a population of 67 million. the US has a population of 328 million.

The U.S. has 30K known gangs and about 800K active members on the streets and are responsible for over 70% of the violence. These gang members have an intense hatred for cops and laws in general. Out of the 1000 the cops killed, how many were justified? Also, according to the FBI (2019) 48 cops died in the line of duty and 16,000 were injured while on the job and about 59K cops were assaulted. Do you really think that compares to what is going on in the UK?

Are there bad cops? sure, and the problem is that those bad cops have been allowed to keep their jobs because their bosses are too busy looking the other way. Unfortunately, that is a microcosm of what is ailing the U.S. in general. Too many are ignoring the criminal activities going on in the streets. Too many repeat offenders are not being arrested, tried and imprisoned, and/or being released to create more victims because the local government does not want to deal with them. We can fix this by taking the criminals off the streets for as long as possible and that includes the bad cops as well. The solution isnt sexy, politically expediant or even popular, but that is what has to be done.