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  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Originally posted by JRT View Post


    ...
    This is likely to go down ion flames as the State Legislature, the constitutional body with the authority to make the call, approved the actions of Act 77.

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  • JRT
    replied
    Originally posted by Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

    Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court orders halt to certification process in down ballot races

    by Joulian Routh
    25 November 2020

    Pennsylvania is prohibited from certifying the rest of its election results in down ballot races — and from taking any further action in regards to yesterday’s certification of the presidential race — pending a hearing on Friday in an appellate court.

    The Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania, in an order signed by Judge Patricia McCullough, issued an injunction Wednesday that stops the state from continuing its certification, and intends to hear evidence in a case filed by U.S. Rep. Mike Kelly and GOP congressional candidate Sean Parnell about the constitutionality of mail-in ballots.

    The hearing will be held on Friday at 11:30 a.m.

    The state certified the results in the race for president on Tuesday, giving its 20 electoral votes to Democrat Joe Biden and his running mate, California Sen. Kamala Harris. The court order said the state is prohibited from acting “to the extent that there remains any further action to perfect the certification of the results" of the races for president and vice president.

    Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro wrote on Twitter, “This order does not impact yesterday’s appointment of electors. We will be filing an appeal with the Pennsylvania Supreme Court momentarily.”

    Mr. Kelly and Mr. Parnell are arguing that state lawmakers violated Pennsylvania’s Constitution by adopting Act 77 last year, which expanded the mail-in balloting option to let all qualified voters to vote by mail without an excuse. They allege that absentee voting — which required an excuse from a set of allowed reasons — was rebranded as no-excuse mail-in voting “absent any constitutional authority.”

    The Republican-controlled state Legislature responded, in legal filings, that the case should be dismissed because Act 77 didn’t alter the requirements of who constitutes a qualified voter, and that the Legislature is constitutionally authorized to prescribe the method by which those electors may cast their votes.

    .

    ...

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  • JRT
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Our Constitution doesn't give 2 shits about his ego.
    You won't hear it reported with that wording on the evening news, but I expect that even some of the talking heads at Faux Fox News would agree with you.
    ...or is that Fox Faux News, I forget.
    Last edited by JRT; Yesterday, 19:07.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Biden officially tops 80 million votes, beating Obama's record by 10 million

    President-elect Joe Biden won more than 80 million votes in the 2020 election, the ongoing vote count confirmed late Tuesday, meaning he beat the previous record by more than 10 million votes. That previous record was set by President Barack Obama, Biden's running mate, in 2008; Obama did not top 70 million in 2012, nor did popular-vote winner Hillary Clinton in 2016. President Trump did beat Obama's record this year, winning at least 73.9 million votes, but he trails Biden by more than 6 million votes and, unlike in 2016, he also lost in the Electoral College.

    Biden currently has 51 percent of the vote, versus 47.1 percent for Trump, making him also the first president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1932 to unseat a sitting president with more than 51 percent. (Ronald Reagan won a landslide in the Electoral College in 1980 but got only 50.7 percent.) The U.S. electorate turned out in large numbers this year, and there were also more Americans eligible to vote, USA Today notes. Peter Weber
    ___________




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  • DOR
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

    Our Constitution doesn't give 2 shits about his ego. As of noon 20 JAN 21 his term officially ends. FINIS. Over.

    Michigan certified last night...PA, WI & NV are all coming. Biden 306. He will bes worn in on 20 JAN 21.

    BTW, I expect we will see a different Inauguration because of COVID...no crush of people on the steps of the Capitol.
    I wouldn't be surprised if that's said to be because the last inauguration could not possibly be beat, at least by a mere mortal.

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  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Originally posted by InExile View Post

    I agree that Biden being inaugurated on the 20th of January is by far the most likely outcome. However, the precedent of challenging the results of an election has been set and might be tried again in the future by someone far more competent and forceful than Trump.

    On the other hand, Trump is an uniquely flawed individual, with a fragile ego that can never admit defeat, and his attempts to overturn the election seem generally frivolous and mostly laughable than a serious attempt to threaten democracy. So it might not be a precedent that future wannabe authoritarians or populists may want to emulate.
    Our Constitution doesn't give 2 shits about his ego. As of noon 20 JAN 21 his term officially ends. FINIS. Over.

    Michigan certified last night...PA, WI & NV are all coming. Biden 306. He will bes worn in on 20 JAN 21.

    BTW, I expect we will see a different Inauguration because of COVID...no crush of people on the steps of the Capitol.

    Leave a comment:


  • TopHatter
    replied
    Trump goes out with a whimper and a tweet. It was always going to be that way
    The end, for Donald Trump, has begun.

    It came just as it had to, with that now all-too familiar mobile phone Twitter notification.

    “In the best interest of our Country, I am recommending that Emily and her team do what needs to be done with regard to initial protocols, and have told my team to do the same,” Mr Trump tweeted, referring to GSA Administrator Emily Murphy, a loyalist who had been keeping the keys to Joe Biden’s transition under lock and key.

    The outgoing president likely will never concede he lost to Mr Biden, now more officially the president-elect than at any point in the two weeks since he was projected the winner of a bitter fight with Mr Trump.

    It’s just not in his personality, which has been so analysed and diagnosed by mental health experts, journalists, relatives and political observers. There’s little remaining question whether the 45th president has a massive ego, a willingness to bend the truth, and a stubborn insistence to put his own interests above even an entire country.

    All three are true.


    Truth feels like a strange thing now, after four years under a president who spewed falsehoods like a firehose.

    He had uttered or tweeted 22,247 statements the Washington Post’s fact checker staff called “errants” just two weeks before Election Day, a figure that no doubt climbed again during his blitz of rallies in the days just before 3 November.

    But by Monday evening, there was one truth that not even this former reality show host who so often was angered by realities he chose to ignore or revise – both in his own mind and on the public stage.

    When Michigan election officials certified election results there that showed Mr Biden winning the state and its 16 electoral votes, it likely ended Mr Trump’s longshot bid to have hundreds of thousands of ballots invalidated in several key battleground states.

    With Pennsylvania expected to certify its results in Mr Biden’s favour in the coming days, the door has all but finally closed on the president’s unprecedented attempt to cling to power from a White House residence he soon will vacate.

    Closing with it will be one of the most chaotic, scandal-plagued eras in American political history. What’s next for Mr Trump is as unclear as when he will walk out of the executive mansion for the final time. But Trumpism will live on.

    Several potential 2024 GOP presidential primary combatants already are jockeying for as large a slice of his conservative base as they can get.

    Nikki Haley, the Indian-American former governor of South Carolina who was his first ambassador to the United Nations, wasted little time in going full coronavirus sceptic. As she eyes a White House bid, she weighed in on a Covid college football brouhaha from the weekend.

    “Florida State, whether you lose today or a few days from now won’t matter. Get it over with already. Stop stalling. #GoTigers @ClemsonFB,” she tweeted after the struggling Sunshine State programme cancelled its meeting with the defending national champions after a backup Tiger offensive lineman showed Covid-like symptoms the night before their scheduled noon Saturday game.

    Even before Mr Trump cleared Ms Murphy to toss Mr Biden and his transition team the keys that unlock reams of intelligence and coronavirus-related data they will need to take over on 20 January, Ms Haley was elbowing the president out of the MAGA lane.

    A whimper
    The truth he ultimately could not ignore came into further focus that evening, when US District Judge Matthew Brann tossed the Trump campaign’s suit claiming widespread voter fraud in Pennsylvania. Mr Brann delivered a fiery decision, writing the Trump team presented little more than “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations.

    The federal judge, despite the president and his legal team continuing to promise to release some, added the claims were "unsupported by evidence."

    "In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state,” Judge Brann wrote. “Our people, laws, and institutions demand more.”

    One can quibble with the judge’s final point. After all, more people voted for Mr Trump this time than when he shocked the world by defeating former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

    Over 10m more, in fact. A large part of the population (73.8m) not only has never demanded more of Donald John Trump – they just wanted more Donald John Trump. But even more (79.8m) did demand more, and voted for his Democratic opponent, who now faces the daunting task of governing a bitterly and deeply divided country that has been so warped by the Trump era.

    But how Mr Biden does that is for another day. All eyes, for two more months, will remain on the showman in chief – even if, like the weeks since Election Day, we don’t actually see him that often.

    For all the worries among Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans about a Constitutional crisis or even a coup d’etat, those who have watched this president so closely knew it would be this way.

    In the end, the president who roared and accused and insulted for four years like a lion seemingly at war with every creature in his kingdom went out with a mere whimper.
    ___________


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  • InExile
    replied
    Originally posted by JRT View Post

    No. Regardless that this election cycle's processes may be messier than usual, the election processes and inauguration are on track and on schedule. There is no real Constitutional crisis in this. The structure is resilient. The balance of power exists. Trump is exercising his rights, however frivolous the efforts.

    Determination will be formalized on January 06 2021, and formal transition will begin then if not before. Have no doubt that Biden will be inaugurated as POTUS at noon on January 20, and simultaneously Trump will become another ex-POTUS without any federal authority.

    Beyond Inaugeration Day, Donald J Trump's personality cult of delusioned anti-masker Red-Hatted Klan of Cracked Pots may remain active in their politics and nonviolent protests, exercising their constitutional rights. If any of it extends into seditious conspiracies and/or sedicious acts of violence, then they may be prosecuted for that, as sedition is a felony Federal offense punishable by fines and incarceration in Federal prison.
    I agree that Biden being inaugurated on the 20th of January is by far the most likely outcome. However, the precedent of challenging the results of an election has been set and might be tried again in the future by someone far more competent and forceful than Trump.

    On the other hand, Trump is an uniquely flawed individual, with a fragile ego that can never admit defeat, and his attempts to overturn the election seem generally frivolous and mostly laughable than a serious attempt to threaten democracy. So it might not be a precedent that future wannabe authoritarians or populists may want to emulate.

    Leave a comment:


  • JRT
    replied
    Originally posted by NPR_News

    Trump Is Running Out Of Time As Key States Set To Certify That Biden Won

    23 November 2020
    by Domenico Montanaro

    Most Republicans in Congress have been reluctant to suggest that President Trump concede the presidential election to Democrat Joe Biden. They argue that it's best to let Trump's expend his legal options before they apply too much pressure.

    That pressure has been building and it could be about to go bust this week, with key states certifying the vote totals and making their results official.

    Michigan and Pennsylvania are set to do so Monday, and Nevada will on Tuesday. Arizona and Wisconsin have certification deadlines next week.

    Biden is ahead by more than 155,000 votes in Michigan, by more than 81,000 in Pennsylvania and by more than 33,000 in Nevada.

    Pennsylvania Republican Sen. Pat Toomey has called on Trump to accept the result.

    "President Trump has exhausted all plausible legal options to challenge the result of the presidential race in Pennsylvania," Toomey said in a statement responding to a Trump campaign loss in Pennsylvania federal court Saturday.

    The retiring senator went on to call Biden president-elect and noted that he was disappointed in the outcome, but said it was time to move on so Trump could preserve what he sees as a legacy of achievements in office.

    "To ensure that he is remembered for these outstanding accomplishments, and to help unify our country, President Trump should accept the outcome of the election and facilitate the presidential transition process," Toomey wrote.

    Republican Chris Christie, who has been close to Trump, was more blunt on Sunday, as the former New Jersey governor is known to be.

    "If you have got the evidence of fraud, present it," Christie said on ABC. "Quite frankly, the conduct of the president's legal team has been a national embarrassment."

    With Biden winning 306 electoral votes, expanding his margins in key states since Election Day (he now holds a lead of more than 6 million in the national popular vote), and Trump losing court case after court case, Toomey, Christie and a handful of other prominent Republicans have been calling on Trump to end his attempts to overturn the results of the election and start working with the Biden transition team.

    Those calls could grow louder this week after the expected certifications in those three key states will all but shut off any path of Trump getting the electoral votes needed to retain the presidency.

    Here's the latest in each state:

    Pennsylvania

    After a judge said the Trump legal team did not show "factual proof of rampant corruption" and dismissed the Trump campaign's attempts to block certification, the campaign is appealing.

    In his opinion dismissing Trump's case — argued by Rudy Giuliani, who struggled in his first appearance in court in decades — Judge Matthew Brann, a Republican, wrote:

    "In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more."

    Individual counties must certify their results to the secretary of state by Monday, and then she makes her own certification.

    Michigan

    WKAR's Abigail Censky reports: At the Michigan Board of State Canvassers meeting on Monday, two Democrats and two Republicans will meet to certify the results of Michigan's election. Unofficial results from all 83 counties have already been certified at the county level.

    Despite Republicans' continued alarm bells about election irregularities, lawsuits have been thrown out or withdrawn, and state and local election officials, including a Friday report from the state's Bureau of Elections, prove Michigan's election was secure.

    The president has also been applying pressure to state lawmakers to either try and not certify the results or to install electors loyal to Trump. On Thursday, the president summoned senior Republicans in Michigan's state legislature to the White House.

    But those lawmakers, Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and Michigan House Speaker Lee Chatfield, said after the meeting that they see no reason for the outcome not to match the vote — with Biden winning.

    "We have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan," they said in a joint statement, "and, as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan's electors, just as we have said throughout this election."

    Nevada

    An attempt to stop Nevada's certification, brought by failed Republican Senate candidate Sharron Angle, was thrown out Friday.

    Angle's group, the Election Integrity Project, claimed that some 1,400 votes cast were done for people who'd actually moved to California and registered to vote there, and that about 8,000 ballots were mailed to people who had not voted in a decade, which is against Nevada law.

    Biden won the state by more than 33,000 votes.

    "The civil remedy of throwing out an election is just a shocking ask," District Court Judge Gloria Sturman told the group's attorney. "You are asking me to throw out 1.4 million votes on the chance that somewhere between 250 and 8,000 people should not have voted."

    What's next?

    The following week sees two more key states certify their results: Arizona on Nov. 30 and Wisconsin on Dec. 1. Biden won both states narrowly.

    The Trump campaign requested a recount in two heavily Democratic-leaning counties that put Biden over the top in Wisconsin. But election officials in the state are complaining that Trump campaign observers are obstructing and slowing down the recount from actually happening, "in some instances by objecting to every ballot tabulators pulled to count," the Associated Press reports.

    States are set to finalize their electors on Dec. 8, then electors will cast votes in state capitols Dec. 14. Those votes will be received by Vice President Pence on Dec. 23, and then Congress tallies them Jan. 6 before Biden is inaugurated Jan. 20.

    The Trump campaign may try to drag this out as long as possible, filing in many cases frivolous challenges and appeals. But pressure this week will likely only build on those around him to abandon Trump or convince him to give up what appears to be an even more futile fight as the days go on.

    .

    ...

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  • JRT
    replied
    Originally posted by statquo View Post
    It's actually really sad to see these types of resources and time be wasted on this. It's not going to change anything.
    No argument that the resources could be put to better use, but the resources are not really being wasted, as money is changing hands and the related efforts generate some added ecomonic activity (however small), providing some stimululous to the economy.

    Last edited by JRT; 23 Nov 20,, 19:08.

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  • statquo
    replied
    It's fun to watch a conspiracy theory play out in real life. I'm sure all of those dots connected on whatever message forum or youtube video they watched, but in real life you need actual proof, with actual arguments, with actual evidence. It's actually really sad to see these types of resources and time be wasted on this. It's not going to change anything. Conspiracy theorists use circular arguments that don't end. Disappointed to see the US have these people empowered. Smh. This wasn't the change we expected.

    Leave a comment:


  • TopHatter
    replied
    Wisconsin officials: Trump observers obstructing recount

    MILWAUKEE (AP) — Election officials in Wisconsin’s largest county accused observers for President Donald Trump on Saturday of seeking to obstruct a recount of the presidential results, in some instances by objecting to every ballot tabulators pulled to count.

    Trump requested the recount in Milwaukee and Dane counties, both heavily liberal, in hopes of undoing Democrat Joe Biden's victory by about 20,600 votes. With no precedent for a recount reversing such a large margin, Trump's strategy is widely seen as aimed at an eventual court challenge, part of a push in key states to undo his election loss.

    A steady stream of Republican complaints in Milwaukee was putting the recount far behind schedule, county clerk George Christenson said. He said many Trump observers were breaking rules by constantly interrupting vote counters with questions and comments.

    “That’s unacceptable,” he said. He said some of the Trump observers “clearly don't know what they are doing.”


    Tim Posnanski, a county election commissioner, told his fellow commissioners there appeared to be two Trump representatives at some tables where tabulators were counting ballots, violating rules that call for one observer from each campaign per table. Posnanski said some Trump representatives seemed to be posing as independents.

    At one recount table, a Trump observer objected to every ballot that tabulators pulled from a bag simply because they were folded, election officials told the panel.

    Posnanski called it “prima facie evidence of bad faith by the Trump campaign.” He added later: “I want to know what is going on and why there continues to be obstruction.”


    Joe Voiland, a lawyer speaking to commission members on behalf of the Trump campaign, denied his side was acting in bad faith.

    “I want to get to the point of dialing everything down … and not yelling at each other,” Voiland said.

    At least one Trump observer was escorted out of the building by sheriff’s deputies Saturday after pushing an election official who had lifted her coat from an observer chair. Another Trump observer was removed Friday for not wearing a face mask properly as required.

    Trump paid $3 million, as required by state law, for the partial recount that began Friday and must conclude by Dec. 1.

    His team is seeking to disqualify ballots where election clerks filled in missing address information on the certification envelope where the ballot is inserted, even though the practice has long been accepted in Wisconsin.

    The campaign also alleges thousands of absentee ballots don't have proper written paperwork, and that some absentee voters improperly declared themselves “indefinitely confined," a status that allows them to receive a ballot without photo ID. Those challenges were being rejected.

    There have been at least 31 recounts in statewide elections in the U.S. since the most famous one in Florida’s presidential election in 2000. The recounts changed the outcome of three races. All three were decided by hundreds of votes, not thousands.
    ____________

    The stench of desperation is getting stronger...

    But! As long as Trump has other people's money to spend, he'll fight this down to the last cult member's penny

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  • JRT
    replied
    Originally posted by InExile View Post
    My reading of the history of the Roman Republic reminds of the period of Tiberius Gracchus. Until then, the Roman Republic had functioned remarkably well for hundreds of years, even at times of great crisis due to the restraint shown by its leaders and their willingness to follow established norms and their willingness to cede power at the end of their term. Gracchus used means like mob violence to intimidate political opponents, broke with established norms by trying to run for Tribune a second time in violation of established principles. He paved the way for subsequent leaders like Marius, Sulla and Caesar, which finally led to the end of the Republic about 90 years later.

    Its hard not to think that a similar precedent has just been established for the US.
    No. Regardless that this election cycle's processes may be messier than usual, the election processes and inauguration are on track and on schedule. There is no real Constitutional crisis in this. The structure is resilient. The balance of power exists. Trump is exercising his rights, however frivolous the efforts.

    Determination will be formalized on January 06 2021, and formal transition will begin then if not before. Have no doubt that Biden will be inaugurated as POTUS at noon on January 20, and simultaneously Trump will become another ex-POTUS without any federal authority.

    Beyond Inaugeration Day, Donald J Trump's personality cult of delusioned anti-masker Red-Hatted Klan of Cracked Pots may remain active in their politics and nonviolent protests, exercising their constitutional rights. If any of it extends into seditious conspiracies and/or sedicious acts of violence, then they may be prosecuted for that, as sedition is a felony Federal offense punishable by fines and incarceration in Federal prison.
    Last edited by JRT; 22 Nov 20,, 14:42.

    Leave a comment:


  • InExile
    replied
    My reading of the history of the Roman Republic reminds of the period of Tiberius Gracchus. Until then, the Roman Republic had functioned remarkably well for hundreds of years, even at times of great crisis due to the restraint shown by its leaders and their willingness to follow established norms and their willingness to cede power at the end of their term. Gracchus used means like mob violence to intimidate political opponents, broke with established norms by trying to run for Tribune a second time in violation of established principles. He paved the way for subsequent leaders like Marius, Sulla and Caesar, which finally led to the end of the Republic about 90 years later.

    Its hard not to think that a similar precedent has just been established for the US.
    Last edited by InExile; 22 Nov 20,, 08:27.

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  • InExile
    replied
    Originally posted by GVChamp View Post

    Trump being a more immediate threat is less concerning than lying in bed with the bigger, long-term threat. It's like allowing the Soviet Union to set up nuclear missiles in Mexico because you're worried about Pancho Villa, when Pancho Villa is basically guaranteed to get hit by a drone-strike next month anyways. If you disagree, that's fine, that's your choice.
    I grant that over the past 4 years Trump has been more about talking crazy stuff than doing something catastrophic. Be it withdrawing from NATO, threatening a nuclear war with Kim, launching a trade war with China or forcing Mexico to pay for a wall, Trump has generally backed down from a self initiated crisis before it escalated beyond a point. Besides his bungling on COVID which may have cost a 100,000 excess deaths as compared to a 'normal' President, the US and the world has not faced a catastrophe due to Trump.

    On the other hand losing a Presidential election and joining the small group of one term Presidents is a kind of public humiliation that Trump has never faced until now and probably who's ego cannot handle. His actions the past few weeks show that he would not hesitate to overturn the election if he could even if it means causing the worst constitutional crisis in almost 150 years.

    The only question is whether enough Republican officials will aid him in this effort. Based on recent events, like the Republican leaders in Michigan saying they wont replace the electors; and we can probably expect folks like Romney and Collins to hold against this in the Senate, I think the chances of Trump succeeding are extremely low. But the precedent of an all out attack on a democratic election has been set; and American democracy is weaker for it.
    Last edited by InExile; 22 Nov 20,, 05:30.

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