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The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

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  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    Wisconsin GOP leader rejects election decertification call
    MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Wisconsin's Republican speaker of the Assembly again rejected calls to decertify President Joe Biden's win in the battleground state after meeting privately Wednesday with advocates for making that move that attorneys across the political spectrum have said can't be done.

    Assembly Speaker Robin Vos, who called the meeting, emerged to say he believed there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election but the focus should not be on relitigating that but instead on electing Republicans as governor and attorney general this fall.

    “We don’t have the ability to unilaterally overturn the election," Vos said of 2020, repeating his long-held position. “It can’t happen.”

    Vos said the oath he took as an elected official and the constitution "doesn’t allow me to decertify any of the elections, whether I want to or not. That’s not going to happen.”

    Decertification advocates, including Republican candidate for governor and current state Rep. Timothy Ramthun, had hoped to convince Vos to change his stance. They didn't succeed.

    Vos kicked Ramthun out of the meeting before it even began.

    “More obstruction,” Ramthun said as he exited the room. “This is what I have been dealing with now for 17 months.”


    Ramthun and Vos have butted heads over the election and its aftermath.

    Vos and other Republican leaders have refused to take up Ramthun’s resolutions seeking to decertify the election. And in January, Vos removed Ramthun’s only full-time staff member as punishment after Vos said he falsely accused Vos of signing a deal with attorneys for former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton to authorize absentee ballot drop boxes.

    Vos said the meeting was a chance for those who believe the 2020 election cannot be decertified to discuss it along with advocates for decertification. Nonpartisan attorneys who advise lawmakers were at the meeting. They have previously said it is illegal to decertify the election, as has the head of the conservative Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty.

    Another meeting attendee, Jefferson Davis, presented evidence of what he said was widespread fraud. Statewide, 24 people have been charged with voter fraud, a miniscule percentage of the nearly 3.3 million people who cast ballots that is on par with past elections.

    Vos has come under pressure from former President Donald Trump and other Republicans, including Ramthun, who support his false claims that the election was stolen and say Vos is not doing enough, including decertifying Biden’s win.

    The meeting came after the investigator hired by Vos, former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Michael Gableman, this month urged lawmakers to consider decertifying Biden’s win.

    Biden’s win in Wisconsin by just under 21,000 votes over Trump has withstood lawsuits, recounts and reviews by the Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty and the nonpartisan Legislative Audit Bureau.

    Vos, Senate Republican Majority Leader Devin LeMahieu and state GOP chairman Paul Farrow were scheduled to meet with county Republican chairs on Wednesday night to discuss election fraud and other issues.

    Ramthun told reporters after he was kicked out of the meeting that it should have been open to the public. He also urged the filing of criminal charges against anyone who broke the law related to the 2020 election, including members of the bipartisan Wisconsin Elections Commission.

    Three county district attorneys have declined to file charges against commission members, citing a lack of evidence.

    Ramthun has emerged as one of the most vocal election conspiracy theory advocates in Wisconsin, using it as the primary issue for his run for governor. MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell, also a purveyor of false claims that Trump won the 2020 election, endorsed Ramthun.
    _________
    I just wonder how many of these politicians who are crying wolf were on the same ballot as Trump & Biden....so are they saying their own elections are invalid as well?
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

      I just wonder how many of these politicians who are crying wolf were on the same ballot as Trump & Biden....so are they saying their own elections are invalid as well?
      Logic. Shame on you...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

        I just wonder how many of these politicians who are crying wolf were on the same ballot as Trump & Biden....so are they saying their own elections are invalid as well?
        That's been brought up already. Trump's cult dismissed that obvious dichotomy as irrelevant or not applicable or whatever they had to say to sooth their cognitive dissonance.
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

          That's been brought up already. Trump's cult dismissed that obvious dichotomy as irrelevant or not applicable or whatever they had to say to sooth their cognitive dissonance.
          NYT just defacto admitted they put a thumb on the scale by smothering the story on Hunter Biden's Laptop with all that entailed: forgien lobbying, Joe Biden corruption, pay to play schemes etc. Not sure this was done to any other GoP candidates.

          Comment


          • Now back to our original programing with Another World. Today's episode has Rachel thinking she hit the jackpot marrying Z but then met wealthy businessman Hunter...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
              Now back to our original programing with Another World. Today's episode has Rachel thinking she hit the jackpot marrying Z but then met wealthy businessman Hunter...
              I hate to break to Trump's cult but Matt "Samuel Sterns" Gaetz'll be indicted before Hunter Biden.
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                I hate to break to Trump's cult but Matt "Samuel Sterns" Gaetz'll be indicted before Hunter Biden.
                Very possible, but the NYT's admission removes any doubt you successfully found someone to vote for even more corrupt than you think Trump is

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post

                  Very possible, but the NYT's admission removes any doubt you successfully found someone to vote for even more corrupt than you think Trump is
                  LOL Your world of delusions doesn't really have any limits does it.

                  "even more corrupt...than you think Trump is" Gotta hand it to you, just a single sentence and you managed to really outdo yourself on that one.

                  Nice to see you're still willing to cheerlead for Trump. I would've thought after his unashamed knob-polishing of Putin as a "savvy genius peacekeeping" in Ukraine for "2 dollars in sanctions" might have shaken your faith in The Leader a little. What the hell was I thinking
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

                    LOL Your world of delusions doesn't really have any limits does it.

                    "even more corrupt...than you think Trump is" Gotta hand it to you, just a single sentence and you managed to really outdo yourself on that one.

                    Nice to see you're still willing to cheerlead for Trump. I would've thought after his unashamed knob-polishing of Putin as a "savvy genius peacekeeping" in Ukraine for "2 dollars in sanctions" might have shaken your faith in The Leader a little. What the hell was I thinking
                    Biden via Hunter took $3.5 million from Putin. BTW, wasn't defending Trump. Just pointing that Biden inc as a family business exists solely to sell access and sell out the US.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zraver View Post

                      Biden via Hunter took $3.5 million from Putin. BTW, wasn't defending Trump. Just pointing that Biden inc as a family business exists solely to sell access and sell out the US.
                      Z, even if the claim about Hunter Biden was literally true 'selling access' is not the same thing as 'selling out'. That's how US politics works, on both sides of the divide. You think the Republican don't take large cheques in return for a chance to 'chew the fat' with their candidate? Donations equal access to the people in power. 'Selling out' on the other hand would involve some specific action on Biden's part (or whoever the President is at the time) in exchange for a large donation i.e. bribery. And at this time I'm not even certain what the emails on Hunter,s laptop prove (as opposed to what some people want them to prove).

                      If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Monash View Post

                        Z, even if the claim about Hunter Biden was literally true 'selling access' is not the same thing as 'selling out'. That's how US politics works, on both sides of the divide. You think the Republican don't take large cheques in return for a chance to 'chew the fat' with their candidate? Donations equal access to the people in power. 'Selling out' on the other hand would involve some specific action on Biden's part (or whoever the President is at the time) in exchange for a large donation i.e. bribery. And at this time I'm not even certain what the emails on Hunter,s laptop prove (as opposed to what some people want them to prove).
                        Wish people would hold the Biden's to the same evidentiary standards they held rump too. Biden is actually in office and we have his son's laptop confirming Hunter was taking foreign money in part to hold for Joe Biden.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zraver View Post

                          Wish people would hold the Biden's to the same evidentiary standards they held rump too. Biden is actually in office and we have his son's laptop confirming Hunter was taking foreign money in part to hold for Joe Biden.
                          Z, lets face it. I think the issue with Trump is that his words and actions are more or less on the record. For good or ill (IMO mostly ill) he was and still is in the public's 'face'. Biden and his family are not Trump. For that matter few, if any people in US federal politics come close. Trump's problems with the law are more or less of his own making. He basically did what he wanted to do and said what he wants to say. Biden? More of a conventional politician. Trump's conduct while in office basically involved him painting a giant legal target on himslef. Biden hasn't done that, at least so far.

                          Hunter? well he's Hunter i.e. not President of the United States. To allege crimes against Biden you have to prove he was complicit in Hunters actions, which to date as far as I' am aware hasn't been proven. And that's assuming Hunter's actions were illegal to start with! Which again is an open question as of now.

                          The important this is that when I say this I'm applying exactly the same rules I would apply if the conduct in question related to you or I. If an adult son or daughter (or another close relative for that matter) committed a criminal act without my knowledge or involvement no way in hell would I countenance their conduct. Nor would I accept responsibility for it. So if evidence exists that Biden Senior was involved? No problem, go to town on his ass, he'll deserve it! Just like you or I would in the same circumstances. But until such time as that is proved?
                          If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                          Comment


                          • The laptop contains admissions by Hunter that Joe aka "The Big Guy" is intimately involved and profiting. Some confirmed by Hunter's own business partners.

                            Comment


                            • "News" on the Hunter Biden Front
                              When there is an important story in the world of politics, particularly national politics, we try to make sure to write something about it. However, there is an awful lot of news that is treated as "important," and is given coverage by many outlets, but is really what you might call "So what?" news. For example, several times in the last couple of weeks, one of the Trump offspring has shared their opinion on why Vladimir Putin didn't invade Ukraine while pops was president. These assessments are absolutely worthless, as they are 100% guaranteed to be self-aggrandizing spin, unsupported with evidence of any sort. And yet, every outlet seemed to have a "Donald Jr. Explains..." or an "Eric Trump Explains..." piece when those two held forth. Clearly, Trump hate-reading gets a lot of clicks.

                              Another story last week from this category involves First Son Hunter Biden. Recall that Biden, who definitely has a few skeletons in his closet, was at the center of a fairly vast conspiracy theory perpetuated, in particular, by Rudy Giuliani. He was slurred for drug abuse (true), and for tax evasion (possibly true; the investigation is ongoing), and for using his famous name and his famous connections (i.e., dad) to land some high-paying jobs in Ukraine. This may also be true (and who knows better about this trick than Rudy Giuliani?). However, the core claim—that the current president and then vice president pulled strings in Ukraine to land high-paying gigs for his son—is unsupported by any evidence whatsoever, and does not work, timeline-wise. Still, Giuliani persevered in making the claim, including asserting the existence of a broken laptop in a repair shop in Delaware that contained e-mails proving everything.

                              The New York Times has been keeping a close eye on Hunter Biden, which is fair enough, we guess, since they also kept a close eye on the progeny of Trump. And the paper's latest on the subject contains this passage:
                              .
                              People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.

                              In some of the emails, Mr. Biden displayed a familiarity with FARA, and a desire to avoid triggering it.

                              In other words: (1) Biden was concerned about his tax situation, (2) Biden was concerned about possibly violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act, and (3) there really was a laptop.

                              Right-wing media treated this as a development on par with the promulgation of the Watergate "smoking gun" tape, or the deciphering of the Rosetta Stone, or the splitting of the atom. The story was treated as proof of concept of two things: (1) that the "mainstream media" is shady, because the Times attempted to bury the revelation deep in the story, (2) that because the laptop exists, the claims about the Biden family are all true.

                              Of course, if the Times really was shady, they wouldn't have included the information at all. The reason it only got passing notice is that it was only tangentially related to the story. The basic point was that Biden is still under investigation; the laptop e-mails are just one part of the evidence being used against him. Meanwhile, Hunter Biden conceded long ago that the laptop in question might well have been real. But just because it exists, and just because it was the rare laptop that had e-mails on it, does not mean that the whole Giuliani-fueled conspiracy is true. In fact, the only thing that really matters is whether or not Joe Biden is implicated in bad behavior, since he is an officeholder and Hunter is not. And it remains the case that there is zero evidence of misconduct on the President's part.

                              The alleged conspiracy/scandal got very little attention outside of right-wing media, and we were inclined to let it pass as well, since it's really "So what?" news until such time that Hunter Biden is convicted of something (and even then, he's a private citizen, so...). However, Senate Republicans are licking their chops, and are fantasizing about what they will do if they regain control of the upper chamber. And high up on the list are investigations of Hunter Biden and Anthony Fauci. Biden is no more worthy of a Senate probe than Fauci is, but the number of "the laptop is real!" stories being run by right-wing media will serve to justify Senate Republicans' claim that their investigation is VERY IMPORTANT. So, we pass the Hunter Biden news along, despite our "So what?" response.
                              ________
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • Anyone who thinks President Biden -- not his family currently holding high office, because there aren't any, but POTUS himself -- should be held to the same standards as He Who Should Not Be Named needs to remember what those standards are … moral, ethical, and spiritual.

                                Any thinking person knows there is no comparison between 45 and 46.
                                Anyone who doesn't recognize that is delusional.
                                Trust me?
                                I'm an economist!

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