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The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

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  • Originally posted by JRT View Post

    With Donald J. Trump involved in this, they need to bring it down to his level with a game show format, where contestants are locked into separate soundproof booths, where the contestants can hear everything said, but can only be heard when the moderator activates their booth, and the booth lighting changes to show when a booth is activated.
    For an actual debate, yeah. But debates have been about theater as much as substance, probably going back to Kennedy/Nixon.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • I used to think the most annoying thing about debates was the desperate attempt for someone to come up with a catchy zinger.

      I now realize that I'll take that all day long over the filth that comes out of Trump's mouth. seriously, in another era, someone would have demanded satisfaction with pistols at dawn over the personal attacks.
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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      • Their next meeting is to be town hall style where an undecided voter can ask a question directed to a candidate. I wonder if Trump will try to answer not only his questions but also Biden's questions by interrupting him once again and interrupting the voter asking the question at the same time?

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        • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
          Their next meeting is to be town hall style where an undecided voter can ask a question directed to a candidate. I wonder if Trump will try to answer not only his questions but also Biden's questions by interrupting him once again and interrupting the voter asking the question at the same time?
          I wonder if any of the town hall citizens will call Trump out on anything, or if their questions have to be submitted in advance.

          I'd love to see someone demand to know why Trump was giving orders to white supremacists to "Stand by".

          Or even just ask "Why won't you ever let anyone finish their answer?"
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

          Comment


          • Debate Commission Calls for More ‘Structure’ to Debates

            The Commission on Presidential Debates issued a statement:
            Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues.

            The CPD will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly. The Commission is grateful to Chris Wallace for the professionalism and skill he brought to last night’s debate and intends to ensure that additional tools to maintain order are in place for the remaining debates.
            __________


            Two thoughts about this:

            Why this wasn't done prior to last night's debate is utterly baffling, given that the entire world knows that Donald Trump behaves like a spoiled child.

            But that immediately begs the question, what do they think they can do to keep Trump from behaving like Trump?
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • Trump says he doesn't know who Proud Boys are after telling them to "stand by"

              President Trump told reporters on Wednesday that he doesn't know who the "Proud Boys" are, after saying at the presidential debate last night that the far-right group should "stand back and stand by" in response to a question asking him to condemn white supremacists.

              TRUMP: "I don't know who the Proud Boys are, I mean you'll have to give me a definition, because I don't really know who they are"
              ___________


              Trump of course was told exactly who they were just last night:

              Chris Wallace:
              You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland.

              President Donald J. Trump:
              Sure, I’m will to do that.

              Chris Wallace:
              Are you prepared specifically to do it.

              President Donald J. Trump:
              I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing not from the right wing.

              Chris Wallace:
              But what are you saying?

              President Donald J. Trump:
              I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

              Chris Wallace:
              Well, do it, sir.

              Vice President Joe Biden:
              Say it, do it say it.

              President Donald J. Trump:
              What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead who do you want me to condemn.

              Chris Wallace:
              White supremacist and right-wing militia.

              Vice President Joe Biden:
              Proud Boys...Proud Boys

              President Donald J. Trump:
              Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem this is a left wing.


              So, Trump is either senile old fool that can't remember jack shit. Or he's racist liar.

              Or how about both!
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

              Comment


              • Trump says that polls show that he won the first debate and he would like to continue with more debates with Biden.
                Last edited by JRT; 30 Sep 20,, 22:01.
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                • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                  Trump says he doesn't know who Proud Boys are after telling them to "stand by"
                  And here he is telling them to stand by.


                  And here he is claiming ignorance.


                  And here is Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell trying to associate himself with Senator Tim Scott and disassociate himself from support of white supremacists without criticizing Trump's remarks.


                  Senator Tim Scott's comment on the matter.
                  Last edited by JRT; 30 Sep 20,, 22:52.
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                  • "I think he misspoke"

                    Now Sen. Scott knows how to dance and with McConnell they make a lovely couple don't you think?

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                    • There's simply no defense for what Trump said, but they've got to try. They're just as tied to the cult leader as the cult's rank-and-file.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • Bernie Sanders and Jimmy Kimmel discussing the debate, Trump, the election, issues, etc.
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                        • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

                          Sadly, Tim Kaine was ordered to play the pitbull 4 years ago and played into Pence's hands. It was completely unnatural for the man and it showed....I've known Tim for almost 20 years.

                          If Pence tries to pull the Trump Crap Kamala Harris needs to remind him of Pence's reaction when things went sideways 4 years ago.
                          Kaine had to be the attack dog because they knew that letting any woman, let alone Hilary, attack like that is a non starter. Women have to play by different rules.

                          While Pence is an even more detestable human than Trump - at least Donnie commits his rapes in person one by one, not en masse by legislation - he is also more polite. While he is unlikely to be penalized politically for talking over a woman, he won't be able to be as rude or aggressive as Trump. Harris knows that as a woman, and a black one at that, she also has to be on best behaviour. The 'angry black woman' label is literally one or two terse remarks away, so she will try to be assertive without being aggressive.

                          I'm not sure there will be much substance, but it will be less shouty.
                          sigpic

                          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                            There's simply no defense for what Trump said, but they've got to try. They're just as tied to the cult leader as the cult's rank-and-file.
                            I never knew a turtle could make such adept moves....whom I fooling! He looks like the craven coward that he is!
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

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                            • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

                              Kaine had to be the attack dog because they knew that letting any woman, let alone Hilary, attack like that is a non starter. Women have to play by different rules.

                              While Pence is an even more detestable human than Trump - at least Donnie commits his rapes in person one by one, not en masse by legislation - he is also more polite. While he is unlikely to be penalized politically for talking over a woman, he won't be able to be as rude or aggressive as Trump. Harris knows that as a woman, and a black one at that, she also has to be on best behaviour. The 'angry black woman' label is literally one or two terse remarks away, so she will try to be assertive without being aggressive.

                              I'm not sure there will be much substance, but it will be less shouty.
                              Oh absolutely Pete.

                              I just remember we in Virginia were aghast when we saw him that night....it was not and is not the Time Kaine we know.

                              You are spot on about the "angry black woman" look....which I always want to ask....WTF is the difference for the gender or race for someone when they are angry?!?!!? They are angry for a reason...figure that out!
                              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                              Mark Twain

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                              • Originally posted by Yahoo_News


                                Moderator Chris Wallace on the wild presidential debate: 'It was revealing'

                                Stephen Battaglio - LA Times
                                September 30, 2020, 7:32 pm

                                Fox News anchor Chris Wallace was surprised by the ugly contentiousness of the first 2020 debate between President Trump and his opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden, on Tuesday, but he believes the clash still offered viewers plenty of insights about the two candidates.

                                "Obviously It was not the debate I had planned for, and to that degree I was disappointed," Wallace, 72, said Wednesday in a telephone interview with The Times. "I think debates are about revealing what [the candidates] think. You certainly gained an insight into Donald Trump and what he's thinking and where he wants to take the country and how he wants to take the country there. To that degree I thought it was a success. It may not have been pretty, but it was revealing."

                                The chaos caused largely by Trump's frequent interruptions led TV pundits and social media to describe the debate as the worst in American history. Wallace weathered criticism over his efforts to control the proceedings, although some analysts said it was a lost cause with Trump at one of the lecterns.

                                Wallace said he was initially encouraged when Trump and Biden exchanged views on whether to put forward a Supreme Court nominee before the election. He believed the candidates could have a freewheeling exchange instead of "parallel press conferences" that debates can turn into. But that hope was short-lived.

                                "My initial reaction was, 'This is great. They're going to go at it, and I can take the evening off,'" Wallace said. "But you know, it became clear at a certain point that the president wasn't planning to back off and was going to keep interrupting throughout the evening."

                                The evening did elicit a moment that could go down as one of the most stunning answers in presidential debate history.

                                Wallace offered Trump the chance to denounce white supremacist groups — something the president has been under pressure to do since he said in 2017 that there were "good people on both sides" following a neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Va.

                                Trump did not take that opportunity, and his comment that one right-wing group, the Proud Boys, should "stand back and stand by" was immediately adapted as a rallying cry on social media. Members of the administration tried to rationalize the president's remarks throughout the day.

                                "I think people will read into that what they want to," Wallace said. "What was clear to me was he was given a direct opportunity several times by both me and by the vice president to call out the Proud Boys and white supremacists and he refused to do so."

                                Overall, Wallace said Trump's behavior on stage at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland became an obstacle in questioning both candidates.

                                "While I do think that there was a lot of worthwhile stuff in the debate, I had really prepared for a serious policy discussion," Wallace said. "The interruptions got in the way of a substantive discussion of serious issues and follow-ups to those issues. I thought it wasted a lot of time."

                                Wallace found Trump's willingness to keep interrupting "curious" after it became apparent that Biden, prone to making gaffes in his public appearances, was not going to be rattled by the strategy.

                                "Trump never went to Plan B," Wallace said. "He just stayed on Plan A the entire evening, and I don't think it served him especially well."

                                After the debate, Biden came up to Wallace and whispered in his ear: "I bet you didn't think you were signing up for a boxing match." Trump nodded to Wallace but said nothing to the moderator before exiting the stage.

                                Wallace was also attacked by Trump on Twitter, accusing the moderator of siding with Biden. The barbs did not come as a surprise.

                                "Have you been around the last four years?" said Wallace, whose journalism is cited for its evenhandedness among the conservative commentators who drive the large ratings delivered by Fox News.

                                Wallace, who anchors the weekly Washington roundtable program "Fox News Sunday," said he received accolades from his colleagues at Fox News and its parent, Fox Corp.

                                Lachlan Murdoch, executive chairman and chief executive of Fox Corp.; Suzanne Scott, chief executive of Fox News Media; and Jay Wallace, president of Fox News Media, gave a Champagne toast to Wallace and his team at the airport before they departed from Cleveland.

                                "Lachlan Murdoch came from California to Cleveland for the debate, and we had a talk afterwards, and he could not have been more supportive of the job I did," Wallace said.

                                Wallace's presence as moderator helped give Fox News the largest audience of any network for the debate, with 17.8 million viewers. Around 73 million viewers watched across all of the networks that carried the event, according to Nielsen, a significant drop from the 84 million who watched Trump's first debate with Hillary Clinton in 2016.

                                The Commission on Presidential Debates also praised Wallace's performance, but announced it will consider changes to the formats in the next two meetings between Trump and Biden, scheduled for Oct. 15 and 22.

                                “Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues,” the commission said in a statement. “The CPD will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.”

                                Wallace was skeptical of some of the adjustments he has heard the commission is considering, such as cutting off a candidate's microphone or altering speaking time if an interruption occurs.

                                "The idea that you're going to cut off their microphone — that's a pretty tough call," Wallace said. "I certainly wouldn't have wanted to make it, so on a practical level I wonder if that's going to work. It just it strikes me as a bridge too far."

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                                Last edited by JRT; 01 Oct 20,, 19:28.
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