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The US 2020 Presidential Election

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  • #1411
    DE,

    You say this after the fact isn't it. But before election 2016 why would any one expect PA to go with Trump ? after all ...
    PA was a major swing state in 2016. you can argue credibly that PA is purple.

    the shock for the Clinton campaign was not PA going for Trump, but Wisconsin.

    Why is going purple so hard to accept ?
    because every major poll shows Trump losing by 30 points. that's not a freakin' purple state, which implies both parties have some chance there. it won't even go "more" purple in 2020; Trump lost CA in 2016...by 30 points.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

    Comment

    • #1412
      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

      You say this after the fact isn't it. But before election 2016 why would any one expect PA to go with Trump ? after all ...



      Hence surprise



      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37942545


      Ah well, i'm thinking if Trump could do it once he can do it again

      My room mate was from Erie. He used to read the NYPost. Back in the day I was more the snob and thought only the NYT mattered.




      Not saying CA is going Trump. I'm aware its blue through and through

      Why is going purple so hard to accept ?

      It may sound absurd but then the world had to put up with Trump
      Didn't miss it....knew it was a real possibility. Hence SEC Clinton & SEN Kaine made so many visits as had been pointed out. Anyone who knew PA was seeing a trending red for some time...the legislature flipped a decade ago.

      So, no, not a surprise for the very reasons I just gave. And Erie has been one of the most rock ribbed conservative, hard red parts of PA for decades.

      So what are the empirical data you have that shows California swinging the same way?
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

      Comment

      • #1413
        Half of Trump supporters believe QAnon's imaginary claims

        A full 50 percent of President Trump’s supporters now believe the bizarre, false claims about an international ring of child sex traffickers at the core of the extremist conspiracy theory known as QAnon, according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll — a disturbing sign of how susceptible partisans have become to bogus stories in an age of rampant polarization and unbridled social media.

        The survey, which was conducted from Oct. 16 to 18, shows that most registered voters (55 percent) say they’ve never heard of QAnon, including 44 percent of Trump supporters. And 59 percent of voters who have heard of QAnon describe it as “an extremist conspiracy theory with no basis in fact.”

        Yet these numbers understate the degree to which awareness and even acceptance of QAnon’s underlying falsehoods have permeated the right, regardless of how many unwitting adherents explicitly realize such fictions originate with QAnon itself.

        Trump himself demonstrated this dynamic during his NBC town hall event last Thursday when he refused to disavow the conspiracy theory even after moderator Savannah Guthrie told him that it involves baseless lies about “satanic” Democratic pedophile rings.

        “I know nothing about QAnon,” Trump insisted — except that “they are very strongly against pedophilia and I agree with that.”

        For the most part, Trump’s supporters respond the same way. Even when asked for their “opinion of QAnon,” very few of them — just 16 percent of those who say they’ve heard of the movement — are willing to call it an extremist conspiracy theory with no basis in fact. Larger numbers, meanwhile, say “it goes too far but I believe some of what I’ve heard” (22 percent) or that they’re “not sure” what to believe (47 percent). A striking 15 percent openly say “I think it’s true.”

        In fact, many registered voters, including those who don’t support Trump, are unsure about QAnon or even accept it to some degree, with 7 percent of those who’ve heard of it saying it’s true, 11 percent saying “it goes too far but I believe some of what I’ve heard,” and 23 percent saying they aren’t sure.

        Yet when you remove “QAnon” from the question and ask solely about the conspiracy theory’s underlying myth — that President Trump is secretly fighting elite child sex trafficking rings run by leading Democratic politicians — far more people say they buy into it.

        Here, a staggering 50 percent of Trump supporters say they believe top Democrats are involved in elite child sex trafficking rings. Roughly the same number (52 percent) say they believe Trump is working to dismantle such rings. Another third of Trump supporters (33 percent) say they’re not sure whether these rings exist — which means that just 17 percent of Trump supporters reject the imaginary claims.

        Among all registered voters, a quarter (25 percent) believe top Democrats are involved in elite child sex trafficking rings; another quarter (24 percent) aren’t sure. The vast majority of Joe Biden’s supporters — 82 percent — correctly identify the notion as preposterous.

        Nina Jankowicz, who studies the intersection of democracy and technology as a disinformation fellow at the nonpartisan Wilson Center, said it’s “really crazy” that “such a high number” of Trump supporters believe QAnon’s core conspiracy theory.

        “It seems increasingly like we’re dealing with two different sets of facts in this country, sometimes more,” Jankowicz told Yahoo News. “The fact is that QAnon is a movement, a conspiracy that has been cited by the FBI as potentially inciting terrorist and other violent extremist acts in this country. It shouldn’t be something that we’re this split [on] along partisan lines.”

        Jankowicz was one of the disinformation experts who testified last week at a virtual hearing of the House Intelligence Committee about the dangers of QAnon and other sources of misinformation online, which none of the committee’s Republican members attended, citing security concerns.

        Jankowicz suggested that high levels of openness toward QAnon might be a result of the movement’s ability to manipulate social media algorithms and expand its reach — and circumvent detection — by absorbing a variety of misinformation narratives, including those surrounding the coronavirus vaccine, state lockdown measures and, most recently, efforts to spark a moral panic about child sex trafficking with the viral #SavetheChildren hashtag.

        “I think there’s a lot of cross pollination and indoctrination happening there,” said Jankowicz. Someone who encounters QAnon-related content through its anti-sex-trafficking messaging, she explained, might be less inclined to reject the movement as a whole. Likewise, QAnon is “clearly a partisan theory that supports President Trump, so Trump supporters might not be as eager to point out its inconsistencies” either.

        The results of the latest Yahoo News/YouGov poll illustrate how QAnon’s lies have gained traction on the right via Facebook and email. To be sure, nearly a third of registered voters (31 percent) report seeing posts on Facebook or receiving emails about child sex trafficking. But that number is higher among Trump supporters (38 percent) than Biden supporters (24 percent) — and among those who have come across these messages, Trump supporters (26 percent) are more than twice as likely as Biden supporters (12 percent) to say they see them “very often.” As a result, Trump supporters are also more alarmed about the issue, with a majority (53 percent) saying child sex trafficking is a “big problem” in the U.S. — versus just 37 percent of Biden supporters.

        Anti-trafficking activists and law enforcement officials say that while accurate statistics on child sex trafficking are hard to pin down, the numbers spread by QAnon and #SavetheChildren are likely inflated by orders of magnitude. In reality, the movement’s false claims and misrepresentations have actually diverted resources from legitimate anti-trafficking efforts.

        QAnon followers have increasingly committed real-world acts of harassment and violence, yet the social-media platforms that have fueled QAnon’s growth, such as Facebook and Twitter, have only recently cracked down on related content. YouTube finally took similar steps last Thursday.

        At the same time, President Trump and other top Republicans have proclaimed their support for QAnon-linked congressional candidates, several of whom will now be on the ballot in November. At least one, a Republican in a heavily Republican district, is considered virtually certain to win. Trump has also promoted QAnon on social media.

        Though QAnon may be a partisan theory, Jankowicz emphasized that countering disinformation shouldn’t be a “partisan issue.”

        “The fact that we have so many political candidates who are public adherents of QAnon and a president who himself has refused to disavow the theory” amounts to a “tacit endorsement of a different set of facts,” she said. “That’s what’s really worrisome about it.”

        ______________________

        Looks like you're in good company there surfgun Half of your fellow cult members agree with you!
        “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
        ― Dwight D. Eisenhower
        • 1 like

        Comment

        • #1414
          Good article. It is very early days in a seismic social experiment.

          The thing about QAnon is that its very difficult to quantity how serious the problem is. This survey is very scary. It may be very easy to underestimate the damage this can do to a society.

          It seems increasingly likely to me we will look back on this era of social media as a disaster for society. Many great things are happenning and set to happen in the world (despite the present nightmare) but I doubt the social media experiment will be one of them. When the apes came down out of the trees and walked upright in the savannah they werent built for refined salt and sugar dense foods, hence obesity and diabetes. This is another vulnerable underbelly for us but with potentially even more downside.

          China and Russia can exploit these things to harm the west in very uncoventional ways, and the danger I think is very easy to underestimate, especially as more elaborate A.I is developed in the 2020s but even without the foreign actors its hard to not worry about the impact of social media.

          In the early days it seemed a single platform would come to dominate each segment and all of society would flock to that. Nobody wants to be on a facebook competitor a fraction of the size so you expect a monopoly to develop. I think we may now expect a series of platforms each catering for political and social niches to develop, especially as society becomes more polarized, and the exisiting giants seek to censor and regulate their mainstream platforms pushing people to more remote digital islands. These new platforms may act as echo chambers that foster more division and conspiracy theories, where new ideas can grow quickly and under the surface, There will also be more scope for foregin actors to operate. It will be more difficult for governements to regulate and the problem will move out from under the umbrella of big tech. I dont think the landscape has shaped at all. The volcano of social media is still spewing lava downhill and in all directions.

          Comment

          • #1415
            Now at 780, and maybe still climbing...


            NATIONAL SECURITY LEADERS FOR BIDEN

            We are 780 retired Generals, Admirals, Senior Noncommissioned Officers, Ambassadors and Senior Civilian National Security Officials supporting Joe Biden for President.

            Leadership of National Security Leaders for Biden:​
            Admiral Steve Abbot, USN (Ret)
            Major General Donna Feigley Barbisch, USA (Ret)
            Steven Brock, former Director, National Security Council
            Major General Peter S. Cooke, USA (Ret)
            Richard Danzig, former Secretary of the Navy
            Carlos Del Toro, former Senior Military Assistant, Department of Defense
            Brigadier General John W. Douglass, USAF (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
            Michèle Flournoy, former Under Secretary of Defense
            Lieutenant General Walt Gaskin, USMC (Ret)
            Senior Military Spouse Advisors:
            Marjorie Abbot
            Sheila L. Casey
            Gert Clark
            Fran DeNinno-Zukunft
            Mary Jo Myers
            Suzie Schwartz
            Members of National Security Leaders for Biden:
            Ambassador Gina K. Abercrombie-Winstanley (Ret)
            Ambassador Charles C. Adams, Jr.
            Gordon M. Adams, Ph.D., former Associate Director, Office of Management and Budget
            Brigadier General Clara L. Adams-Ender, USA (Ret)
            Terry Adirim, MD, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Major General James A. Adkins, USA (Ret)
            Karen Aguilar, Senior Foreign Service Officer (Ret), Department of State
            Major General Jerald N. Albrecht, USA (Ret)
            Madeleine Albright, former Secretary of State
            Penrose "Parney" C. Albright, Ph.D., former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security
            Clifford L. Alexander, former Secretary of the Army
            Rear Admiral Tim Alexander, USN (Ret)
            Eric R. Allison, former Deputy Assistant Director of the CIA
            Michael Amato, former Professional Staff Member, House Armed Services Committee
            James D. Anders, former Deputy Chief, CIA
            Brigadier General Steven M. Anderson, USA (Ret)
            Wendy R. Anderson, former Chief of Staff to the Deputy Secretary of Defense
            Command Sergeant Major Victor S. Angry, USA (Ret)
            Sandy Apgar, former Assistant Secretary of the Army
            Ambassador Mari Carmen Aponte (Ret), former Acting Assistant Secretary of State
            Brigadier General Ricardo Aponte, USAF (Ret)
            Brigadier General Jack A. Apperson, USA (Ret)
            Richard L. Armitage, former Deputy Secretary of State
            Major General Wallace Arnold, USA (Ret)
            Vice Admiral Donald Arthur, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Alexander Arvizu (Ret)
            Ambassador Mark L. Asquino (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Tom Atkin, USCG (Ret)
            Ambassador Elizabeth Frawley Bagley
            Rear Admiral Edward L. Baker, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Michael Baker, USN (Ret)
            Sergeant Major Sean A. Baker, USA (Ret)
            Luke Ballman, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Treasury
            Brigadier General Roosevelt Barfield, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Jamie Barnett, USN (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Danelle Barrett, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Leslie A. Bassett (Ret)
            Ambassador Michael A. Battle, Sr.
            Rear Admiral William Baumgartner, USCG (Ret)
            Janet W. Bean, former Executive Director, U.S. Army
            Major General William G. Beard, USA (Ret)
            Carolyn H. Becraft, former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
            Rear Admiral Charles J. Beers, USN (Ret)
            R. Rand Beers, former Acting Secretary of Homeland Security
            Ambassador Colleen Bell
            Virginia L. Bennett, former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Catherine Bertini, former United Nations Under Secretary General
            Ambassador Bruce G. Berton (Ret)
            Representative Donald S. Beyer, Jr. (VA-08), former Ambassador
            Jeffrey P. Bialos, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
            Hans Binnendijk, Ph.D., former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
            Ambassador Peggy Blackford (Ret)
            Ambassador Robert D. Blackwill (Ret), former Deputy National Security Advisor
            Ambassador Robert Blake (Ret)
            Charles A. Blanchard, former General Counsel of the Air Force
            Ambassador James Blanchard, former Governor of Michigan
            Lieutenant General Ronald R. Blanck, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador John Blaney
            Ambassador Jeffrey L. Bleich
            Josh Blumenfeld, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Ambassador Avis T. Bohlen (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of State
            Major General Charles "Charlie" F. Bolden Jr., USMC (Ret), former Administrator of NASA
            Major General Edward L. Bolton, Jr., USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Michele Thoren Bond (Ret)
            Ambassador Amy L. Bondurant
            Jason Bordoff, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
            Vice Admiral William "Bill" Bowes, USN (Ret)
            General Chuck Boyd, USAF (Ret)
            Paul L. Boyd, Counselor (Ret), Department of State
            Lieutenant General John A. Bradley, USAF (Ret)
            Brigadier General David M. Brahms, USMC (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Marvin D. Brailsford, USA (Ret)
            Patty Brandmaier, former Senior Executive Officer, CIA
            Ambassador Aurelia E. Brazeal (Ret)
            Joel F. Brenner, former Inspector General of the NSA
            Ambassador James "Wally" Brewster, Jr.
            Major General John W. Brooks, USAF (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Claire Broome, USPHS (Ret)
            Command Sergeant Major Dwight J. Brown, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Sue K. Brown (Ret)
            Mark Brunner, former Senior Advisor to U.S. Senator Mark Warner (D-VA)
            Ambassador George Bruno (Ret)
            Joseph M. Bryan, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy
            Ambassador Mark Brzezinski
            Theresa T. Buchanan, former Member, Uniform Formulary Beneficiary Advisory Panel
            Kara L. Bue, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Brigadier General Edward G. Burley, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Nicholas Burns (Ret), former Under Secretary of State
            Ambassador William J. Burns (Ret), former Deputy Secretary of State
            Sergeant Major William Burton, USMC (Ret)
            Ambassador Dwight L. Bush
            Ambassador Prudence Bushnell (Ret)
            Rear Admiral John Butler, USN (Ret)
            Master Gunnery Sergeant Thomas L. Butts, USMC (Ret)
            Louis E. Caldera, former Secretary of the Army
            Dan Caldwell, Ph.D., Distinguished Professor, Pepperdine University
            Gabe Camarillo, former Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
            Carlos C. Campbell, former Assistant Secretary of Commerce
            Lieutenant General Donald M. Campbell, Jr., USA (Ret)
            John R. Campbell, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Brigadier General Kristine K. Campbell, Ph.D., USA (Ret)
            Kurt M. Campbell, former Assistant Secretary of State
            Brigadier General George J. Cannelos, USAF (Ret)
            Mario Caraballo, former Deputy Associate Administrator, EPA
            Sergeant Major Rosemarie Caraballo, USA (Ret)
            Vice Admiral James C. Card, USCG (Ret)
            Ambassador David L. Carden
            Robert Cardillo, former Director of the NGA
            Brigadier General David Carey, USA (Ret)
            Robert J. Carey, former Principal Deputy Chief Information Officer, Department of Defense
            James R. Carr, former Dean, EPA Institute
            Mike Carr, former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Energy
            Patrick Carrick, Ph.D., former Agency Director, Department of Homeland Security
            Ashton B. Carter, former Secretary of Defense
            Phillip E. Carter, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Steven A. Cash, former CIA Officer and Senate Staff
            Lieutenant General John Castellaw, USMC (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Kenneth G. Castro, USPHS (Ret)
            Major General William D. Catto, USMC (Ret)
            Ambassador Judith B. Cefkin (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Bill Center, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Peter R. Chaveas (Ret)
            Rebecca Bill Chavez, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Antonia Chayes, former Under Secretary of the Air Force
            Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney, USMC (Ret)
            Brigadier General Doug Cherry, USA (Ret)
            General Peter W. Chiarelli, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Mark B. Childress
            Admiral Hank Chiles, USN (Ret), former Commander U.S. Strategic Command
            Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman, USA (Ret)
            Lieutenant General James Clapper, USAF (Ret), former Director of National Intelligence
            General Wesley Clark, USA (Ret), former Commander U.S. European Command
            Richard Clarke, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
            Brigadier General Julia Jeter Cleckley, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral William W. Cobb, Jr., USN (Ret)
            David S. Cohen, former Deputy Director of the CIA
            Rear Admiral Mitchell L. Cohen, MD, USPHS (Ret)
            William Cohen, former Secretary of Defense
            Harry Coker, Jr., former Executive Director of the NSA
            Brent Colburn, former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security
            Rear Admiral Christopher W. Cole, USN (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Ronald S. Coleman, USMC (Ret)
            Joseph J. Collins, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Erin C. Conaton, former Under Secretary of Defense
            John Conger, former Principal Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Elinor G. Constable (Ret)
            Ambassador Frances D. Cook (Ret)
            Ambassador Frederick B. Cook (Ret)
            Major General J. Gary Cooper, USMC (Ret)
            Rear Admiral José F. Cordero, USPHS (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Mary Pat Couig, Ph.D., MPH, RN, USPHS (Ret)
            Thomas M. Countryman, former Assistant Secretary of State
            Ambassador Cindy L. Courville, Ph.D. (Ret)
            Madelyn R. Creedon, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Daniel T. Crocker, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Commerce
            Ambassador James B. Cunningham (Ret)
            Senior Chief Intelligence Specialist Marilee Cunningham, USN (Ret)
            Major General Lewis Curtis, USAF (Ret)
            Gregory Dahlberg, former Under Secretary of the Army
            William B. Daitch, former Assistant Director, Department of Homeland Security
            John H. Dalton, former Secretary of the Navy
            Major General Stephen L. Danner, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral John P. Davis, USN (Ret)
            Sergeant Major Kim Davis, USMC (Ret)
            Robert V. Davis, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Ruth A. Davis (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Michael Davison, Jr., USA (Ret)
            Daniel Dawson, former Senior Executive, Defense Intelligence Agency
            Rear Admiral Scott D. Deitchman, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            David G. Delaney, former Acting Associate General Counsel of Homeland Security
            Ambassador Jeffrey DeLaurentis (Ret)
            Ambassador Greg Delawie (Ret)
            Rudy DeLeon, former Deputy Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Christopher Dell (Ret)
            Joan Dempsey, former Deputy Director of Central Intelligence
            Major General Susan Y. Desjardins, USAF (Ret)
            Chief Master Sergeant R. Dale Deskins, USAF (Ret)
            Brian R. Detter, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy
            Major General Richard T. Devereaux, USAF (Ret)
            Carol DiBattiste, former Under Secretary of the Air Force
            Ambassador John Dinger (Ret)
            Ambassador Larry Dinger (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Kelvin N. Dixon, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Kathleen Doherty (Ret)
            Michael B. Donley, former Secretary of the Air Force
            Ambassador Joseph R. Donovan, Jr. (Ret)
            Brigadier General Barbara Doornink, USA (Ret)
            Greg Douquet, National Security Leader
            Martha E. Duncan, former Chief DIA Defense Human Intelligence Enterprise
            Vice Admiral Joseph Dyer, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador William C. Eacho
            Major General Paul Eaton, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador William A. Eaton (Ret)
            R.P. Eddy, former Director, National Security Council
            Eric Edelman, former Under Secretary of Defense
            Major General Mari K. Eder, USA (Ret)
            Brigadier General Thomas N. Edmonds, USAF (Ret)
            Master Chief Personnel Specialist Bridget F. Edwards, USN (Ret)
            Chief Master Sergeant Kelly J. Egan, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Susan M. Elliott (Ret)
            Ambassador John B. Emerson
            Ambassador Gregory W. Engle (Ret)
            Major General William L. Enyart, USA (Ret), former U.S. Congressman (IL-12)
            Joseph A. Esposito, former Deputy Under Secretary of Education
            Alan Estevez, former Principal Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
            Sergeant Major John L. Estrada, USMC (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Stephen C. Evans, USN (Ret)
            Elisa Ewers, former Director, National Security Council
            Major General John Ewers, USMC (Ret)
            Vice Admiral Ron Eytchison, USN (Ret)
            Roland Fabia, former Chief of Corporate Engagement, Defense Intelligence Agency
            Tony Fainberg, former Division Chief, Department of Defense
            Rear Admiral Henry Falk, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Richard A. Falkenrath, former Deputy Homeland Security Advisor
            Evelyn N. Farkas, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Sarah S. Farnsworth, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Major General Barbara Faulkenberry, USAF (Ret)
            Brigadier General Robert J. Felderman, USA (Ret)
            Daniel Feldman, former Special Rep for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Department of State
            Ambassador Judith R. Fergin (Ret)
            Ilsa Ferro, former Chief, Defense Intelligence Agency
            Sergeant Major Ronald E. Fetherson, USMC (Ret)
            Brigadier General Evelyn "Pat" Foote, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Robert S. Ford (Ret)
            Jason W. Forrester, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Major General Eugene Fox, USA (Ret)
            John G. Fox, Senior Foreign Service Officer (Ret), Department of State
            Brigadier General Martin E.B. France, USAF (Ret)
            Paul Frandano, former Senior Executive, CIA
            Vice Admiral Michael T. Franken, USN (Ret)
            Major General George J. Franz, USA (Ret)
            Command Chief Master Sergeant Shelina E. Frey, USAF (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Michael S. Frick, USN (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Robert Ellis Frick, USN (Ret)
            Alison Kiehl Friedman, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Anita Friedt, former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Command Chief Master Sergeant Dennis Fritz, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Laurie S. Fulton
            Ambassador Julie Furuta-Toy (Ret)
            Ambassador Edward M. Gabriel
            Ambassador Peter W. Galbraith
            Rear Admiral James M. Galloway, MD, USPHS (Ret)
            Lenora Peters Gant, Ph.D., former Senior Executive, Office of the Director of National Intelligence
            Juan M Garcia, former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
            Lieutenant General Robert G. Gard, USA (Ret)
            Master Gunnery Sergeant Joseph H. Geeter III, USMC (Ret)
            Joshua A. Geltzer, Ph.D., former Senior Director, National Security Council
            Brigadier General Jonathan George, USAF (Ret)
            Glenn S. Gerstell, former General Counsel of the NSA
            Ambassador Gordon D. Giffin
            Daniel B. Ginsberg, former Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
            Brigadier General Robert A. Glacel, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Fred Stephen Glass, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Christopher E. Goldthwait (Ret)
            David Goldwyn, former Assistant Secretary of State
            Sherri W. Goodman, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
            Robert Gordon, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
            Rose Gottemoeller, former Under Secretary of State
            W. Scott Gould, former Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs
            Ambassador Gary A. Grappo (Ret)
            Ambassador Gordon Gray (Ret)
            Vice Admiral Kevin Patrick Green, USN (Ret)
            Chief Master Sergeant Billy Gregory, Jr., USAF (Ret)
            Robert Griffin, Ph.D., former Acting Under Secretary of Homeland Security
            Vice Admiral Bruce Grooms, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador David A. Gross
            Vice Admiral Lee Gunn, USN (Ret)
            Will A. Gunn, former General Counsel, Department of Veterans Affairs
            Rear Admiral Donald Guter, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Lino Gutiérrez (Ret)
            Ambassador Howard Gutman
            Ambassador Nina Hachigian
            Major General Richard S. Haddad, USAF (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Marlene E. Haffner, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Chuck Hagel, former Secretary of Defense
            Avril Haines, former Deputy Director of the CIA
            Robert Hale, former Under Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Anne Hall (Ret)
            Katherine Hall, former Office Director, CIA
            Major General Irv Halter, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Pamela K. Hamamoto
            Rear Admiral Janice M. Hamby, USN (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Michael Hamel, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador S. Fitzgerald Haney
            Mary B. Hannagan, former Staffing Director, Office of the Director of National Intelligence
            Ken Harbaugh, National Security Leader
            Rear Admiral Bryan Hardin, USPHS (Ret)
            Major General Robert A. Harding, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Jeffrey A. Harley, USN (Ret)
            Anne M. Harrington, former Deputy Administrator, Department of Energy
            Ambassador Anthony Harrington
            Command Master Chief Petty Officer Octavia Harris, USN (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Sinclair Harris, USN (Ret)
            Major General Jerry C. Harrison, USA (Ret)
            United States Senator Gary Hart (Ret)
            Josh Hartman, former Senior Advisor to the Under Secretary of Defense
            Tom N. Harvey, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
            Margaret D. Hawthorne, former Chief of Mission, Department of State
            General Michael Hayden, USAF (Ret), former Director of the CIA
            Major General Ralph L. Haynes, MD, MBA, USA (Ret)
            General Richard D. Hearney, USMC (Ret)
            Major General Ace Hearon, USAF (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Clare Helminiak, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Brigadier General Frederick Henry, USA (Ret)
            Eric Herbst, former Senior Executive, NGA
            Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Bruce Alan Heyman
            Ambassador Douglas T. Hickey
            Rear Admiral Alan R. Hinman, USPHS (Ret)
            Eric L. Hirschhorn, former Under Secretary of Commerce
            John R. Hoag, former Principal Director for Policy, U.S. Mission to NATO
            Ambassador Karl Hofmann (Ret)
            Christopher Hoh, former Senior Advisor, Department of State
            Laura S. H. Holgate, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
            Victoria K. Holt, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Ambassador Richard N. Holwill (Ret)
            Richard D. Hooker, Jr., former Senior Director, National Security Council
            Lieutenant General Reynold N. Hoover, USA (Ret)
            Lieutenant General John D. Hopper, Jr., USAF (Ret)
            Sally K. Horn, former Director, Office of the Secretary of Defense
            Master Gunnery Sergeant William Hosea, USMC (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Mike Hough, USMC (Ret)
            Sharon Houy, former Chief of Staff, Defense Intelligence Agency
            Vice Admiral P. Gardner Howe, III, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Vicki J. Huddleston (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Ambassador David Huebner
            Rear Admiral James M. Hughes, USPHS (Ret)
            Andrew Hunter, former Senior Executive, Department of Defense
            James G. Huse, Jr., former Inspector General of the SSA
            Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, JAGC USN (Ret)
            Steven Huybrechts, Ph.D., former Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Paul Ignatius, former Secretary of the Navy
            Ambassador Karl F. Inderfurth (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of State
            Chris Inglis, former Deputy Director of the NSA
            Admiral Bobby Inman, USN (Ret), former Deputy Director of the CIA
            Brigadier General David R. Irvine, USA (Ret)
            Justin Jackson, former Associate Deputy Director of the CIA
            Major General Jeffrey A. Jacobs, USA (Ret)
            Mark R. Jacobson, former Deputy NATO Civilian Representative, Department of Defense
            Ambassador Roberta S. Jacobson (Ret)
            Ambassador Tracey Ann Jacobson (Ret)
            Terry Jaggers, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
            Deborah Lee James, former Secretary of the Air Force
            Lieutenant General Arlen D. Jameson, USAF (Ret)
            Major General Randy Jayne, USAF (Ret)
            Ray Jefferson, former Assistant Secretary, Department of Labor
            Ambassador Bonnie Jenkins, Ph.D.
            Senior Chief Petty Officer Jardea Jenkins, USN (Ret)
            Brigadier General John Johns, USA (Ret)
            Brigadier General Axel Alfred Johnson III, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador David T. Johnson (Ret)
            Brigadier General J. D. Johnson, USA (Ret)
            Command Chief Master Sergeant Jack Johnson, Jr., USAF (Ret)
            Major General James Johnson, USAF (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Michelle D. Johnson, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Beth Jones (Ret)
            Brigadier General C. Jerome Jones, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Deborah K. Jones
            Major General Michael Jones, USA (Ret)
            Command Sergeant Major Michele S. Jones, USA (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Jan-Marc Jouas, USAF (Ret)
            Colin H. Kahl, Ph.D., former National Security Advisor to the Vice President
            Rear Admiral Douglas B. Kamerow, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Philip Karsting, former Administrator of the Foreign Agricultural Service
            Senior Chief Hospital Corpsman Denis Kaufman, USN (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Richard L. Kelly, USMC (Ret)
            Frank Kendall, former Under Secretary of Defense
            Rear Admiral Gene Kendall, USN (Ret)
            Brigadier General Jeffrey B. Kendall, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Caroline Kennedy
            Ambassador Laura E. Kennedy (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Ambassador Kristie Kenney (Ret)
            Ronald Keohane, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            John Kerry, former Secretary of State
            Command Chief Master Sergeant Trae R. King-Latimer, USAF (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Bob Kiser, MD, USN (Ret)
            Orde Kittrie, former Office Director, Department of State
            Lieutenant General Frank Klotz, USAF (Ret), former Under Secretary of Energy
            Christine Kluh, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
            Susan J. Koch, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Brigadier General Tom Kolditz, Ph.D., USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Jimmy Kolker (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services
            Lawrence Korb, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Karen Kornbluh
            Ambassador Eleni Kounalakis, Lieutenant Governor of California
            Fleet Master Chief Raymond D. Kemp, Sr., USN (Ret)
            Major General Randy Manner, USA (Ret)
            Brigadier General Carlos E. Martinez, USAF (Ret)
            Brigadier General Mark A. Montjar, USA (Ret)
            Sean O'Keefe, former Secretary of the Navy
            Rear Admiral David R. Oliver, Jr., USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Susan Rice, former National Security Advisor
            Alex Wagner, former Chief of Staff to the Secretary of the Army
            Lieutenant General Willie Williams, USMC (Ret)
            Brigadier General Dan Woodward, USAF (Ret)
            Major General Margaret H. Woodward, USAF (Ret)
            Executive Director of National Security Leaders for Biden:​
            Rear Admiral Michael E. Smith, USN (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Richard Kramlich, USMC (Ret)
            Ken Krieg, former Under Secretary of Defense
            William Krist, former Assistant Trade Representative
            John Kroger, former Chief Learning Officer, U.S. Navy
            Ambassador Lisa Kubiske (Ret)
            Robert Kyle, former Program Associate Director, Office of Management and Budget
            Gregory Lagana, former Associate Director, White House Office of Global Communications
            Major General Dennis J. Laich, USA (Ret)
            Anthony Lake, former National Security Advisor
            Brett B. Lambert, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Thomas R. Lamont, former Assistant Secretary of the Army
            Rear Admiral Jim Lando, MD, MPH, FACPM, USPHS (Ret)
            David Lapan, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Rear Admiral William D. Lassek, MD, USPHS (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Katharine Laughton, USN (Ret)
            Jeff Le, former Deputy Cabinet Secretary, Office of the Governor of California
            Ambassador Joyce E. Leader (Ret)
            Master Chief Petty Officer Bobby R. Lee, Jr., USN (Ret)
            Vice Admiral Mike LeFever, USN (Ret)
            Major General Michael Lehnert, USMC (Ret)
            Michael Leiter, former Director of the National Counterterrorism Center
            Rear Admiral Richard A. Lemen, USPHS (Ret)
            Bruce S. Lemkin, former Deputy Under Secretary of the Air Force
            Major General Alfonso E. Lenhardt, USA (Ret)
            Peter D. Lennon, former Special Assistant, Office of the Under Secretary of Defense
            Bel Leong-Hong, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Major General Steven J. Lepper, USAF (Ret)
            Brigadier General Phil Leventis, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Jeffrey D. Levine (Ret)
            Reta Jo Lewis, former Special Rep for Global Intergovernmental Affairs, Department of State
            Ambassador Dawn Liberi (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Frank Libutti, USMC (Ret), former Under Secretary of Homeland Security
            Rear Admiral David M. Lichtman, MD, USN (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Samuel Lin, MD, Ph.D., MBA, MPA, MS, USPHS (Ret)
            Senior Master Sergeant Steven D. Lindsey, USAF (Ret)
            Admiral Samuel J. Locklear, USN (Ret), former Commander U.S. Pacific Command
            Rear Admiral Deborah A. Loewer, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Carmen Lomellin
            Letitia A. "Tish" Long, former Director of the NGA
            Major General Don Loranger, USAF (Ret)
            Keri Lowry, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Admiral James Loy, USCG (Ret), former Commandant of the Coast Guard
            Lieutenant General Charles D. Luckey, USA (Ret)
            James M. Ludes, former Legislative Assistant to U.S. Senator John Kerry (D-MA)
            Ambassador Lewis Lukens (Ret)
            Michael D. Lumpkin, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Rear Admiral Boris D. Lushniak, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Ambassador Douglas Lute (Ret)
            William J. Lynn, III, former Deputy Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador David L. Lyon (Ret)
            Ray Mabus, former Secretary of the Navy
            Rear Admiral Archer M. Macy, USN (Ret)
            General David M. Maddox, USA (Ret)
            Tom Maertens, former Director, National Security Council
            Robert W. Magner, former Senate Relations Director, CIA
            Kelly Magsamen, former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Deborah R. Malac (Ret)
            Michele A. Manatt, former Legislative Affairs Director, White House Office of Nat'l Drug Control Policy
            Ambassador Robert A. Mandell
            Rear Admiral David Manero, USN (Ret)
            Kathleen Y. Marin, former Region Director, U.S. Army Installation Management Command
            Ambassador Edward Marks (Ret)
            Rear Admiral James Marks, USPHS (Ret)
            Robert Terry Marlow, former Principal Special Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force
            Ambassador Niels Marquardt (Ret)
            Ambassador Vilma S. Martinez
            Keith J. Masback, former Source Operations Director, NGA
            Brigadier General Gregory Mason, USA (Ret)
            Vice Admiral John M. Mateczun, MD, MPH, JD, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Dennise Mathieu (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Michael G. Mathis, USN (Ret)
            Major General Jose S. Mayorga, USA (Ret)
            Alejandro Mayorkas, former Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security
            Barbara Estock Mays, former Special Assistant, Defense Intelligence Agency
            J. R. McBrien, former Associate Director, Department of the Treasury
            Ambassador Marshall F. McCallie (Ret)
            Major General Neil McCasland, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
            Sergeant Major Patricia Mack McCollough, USMC (Ret)
            Ryan McDermott, former Principal Director, Department of Defense
            Denis McDonough, former White House Chief of Staff
            Ambassador Nancy McEldowney (Ret)
            Ann McFadden, former Senior Executive, U.S. Army
            Master Sergeant Tom McFadden, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Stephen G. McFarland (Ret)
            Vice Admiral Dennis V. McGinn, USN (Ret)
            Brigadier General David L. McGinnis, USA (Ret), former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Donald F. McHenry, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
            James F. McIlmail, former Executive Director, Defense Intelligence Agency
            Ambassador Elizabeth McKune (Ret)
            John McLaughlin, former Acting Director of the CIA
            General Merrill A. McPeak, USAF (Ret), former Chief of Staff of the Air Force
            Major General Dee Ann McWilliams, USA (Ret)
            Brigadier General Joseph V. Medina, USMC (Ret)
            Monica Medina, former Principal Deputy Under Secretary of Commerce
            Subhi Mehdi, former Executive Director, Department of Veterans Affairs
            Ambassador James D. Melville, Jr. (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Steve Metruck, USCG (Ret)
            James N. Miller, former Under Secretary of Defense
            Major General John Miller, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Tom Miller (Ret)
            Jami Miscik, former Deputy Director of the CIA
            Rear Admiral Michael Mittelman, USN (Ret)
            Major General David Mize, USMC (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Thomas M. Montgomery, USA (Ret)
            Vice Admiral Edward Moore, Jr., USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Roderick W. Moore (Ret)
            Edward "Tom" Morehouse, former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Constance A. Morella
            Ambassador Luis G. Moreno (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Kenneth P. Moritsugu, MD, MPH, FACPM, USPHS (Ret)
            Ambassador Richard Morningstar
            Ambassador Stephen D. Mull (Ret)
            Vice Admiral Charles L. Munns, USN (Ret)
            Patrick Murphy, former Acting Secretary of the Army
            Carla Tighe Murray, former Director, Office of the Secretary of Defense
            Robert Murray, former Under Secretary of the Navy
            Vice Admiral Robert B. Murrett, USN (Ret), former Director of the NGA
            Ambassador Allan Mustard (Ret)
            Major General J. Michael Myatt, USMC (Ret)
            Senior Chief Petty Officer Malcolm W. Nance, USN (Ret)
            Janet Napolitano, former Secretary of Homeland Security
            Admiral John Nathman, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador David D. Nelson (Ret)
            Dava Newman, former Deputy Administrator of NASA
            General Lloyd Fig Newton, USAF (Ret)
            Thomas R. Nides, former Deputy Secretary of State
            Brian H. Nilsson, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Ambassador Crystal Nix-Hines
            John M. Nolan, former Deputy Postmaster General, U.S. Postal Service
            Rear Admiral Audrey Hart Nora, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Ambassador Victoria Nuland (Ret)
            Major General James Nuttall, USA (Ret)
            Joseph Nye, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Brigadier General Mark O’Neill, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Patrick O'Carroll, MD, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Kimberly O'Connor, DM, former Executive Director, Department of Homeland Security
            Linda Bithell Oliver, former Special Assistant to the Under Secretary of Defense
            Matt Olsen, former Director of the National Counterterrorism Center
            Major General Eric T. Olson, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Louis F. O'Neill (Ret)
            Thomas P. Oppel, former Chief of Staff to the Secretary of the Navy
            Lieutenant General Charley Otstott, USA (Ret)
            Andy Ozment, former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security
            Tracy Pakulniewicz, former Policy Integration Director, Department of Defense
            Brigadier General Pete J. Palmer, USA (Ret)
            Leon E. Panetta, former Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Joseph R. Paolino, Jr.
            Michael Parmly, former Acting Assistant Secretary of State
            James Pavitt, former Deputy Director of the CIA
            Lieutenant General Allen G. Peck, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
            William J. Perry, former Secretary of Defense
            Vice Admiral D. Brian Peterman, USCG (Ret)
            F. Whitten Peters, former Secretary of the Air Force
            Major General Marne' Peterson, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Nancy Bikoff Pettit (Ret)
            Major General John Phillips, USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Thomas R. Pickering (Ret), former Under Secretary of State
            William Piekney, former Senior Operations Manager, CIA
            Ambassador Joan M. Plaisted (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Julia R. Plotnick, RN, MPH, USPHS (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Paul J. Pluta, USCG (Ret)
            Major General Gale S. Pollock, CRNA, FACHE, FAAN, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Fernandez "Frank" Ponds, USN (Ret)
            Major General Peggy Poore, USAF (Ret)
            Edward A. Powell, former Acting Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs
            Ambassador Nancy J. Powell (Ret)
            Jon Powers, former Federal Chief Sustainability Officer, White House
            Major General Thomas L. Prather, Jr., USA (Ret)
            Sen. Larry Pressler, former United States Senator (R-SD)
            Ned Price, former Senior Director, National Security Council
            Ambassador Charles L. "Jack" Pritchard (Ret)
            Jeffrey F. Pryce, former Counselor to the Under Secretary of Defense
            Rear Admiral William L. Putnam, USN (Ret)
            Major General Marilyn Quagliotti, USA (Ret)
            Major General Mark R. Quantock, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Kevin M. Quinn, USN (Ret)
            Mary E. Quinn, former Senior Executive, Department of Defense
            Ambassador Maureen Quinn (Ret)
            Susan J. Rabern, Ph.D., former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
            Major General William M. Rajczak, USAF (Ret)
            Adrienne Ramsay, former Professional Staff, House Appropriations Committee
            Ambassador Robin L. Raphel
            Lieutenant Colonel Alfred Rascon, USA (Ret), Medal of Honor Recipient
            Ambassador Charles A. Ray (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Stephen Redd, USPHS (Ret)
            Joe Reeder, former Under Secretary of the Army
            Major General Raymond "Fred" Rees, USA (Ret)
            Sergeant Major Fenton Reese, USMC (Ret)
            Ambassador Julissa Reynoso
            Rear Admiral Mark Rich, USN (Ret)
            Anne C. Richard, former Assistant Secretary of State
            Governor Bill Richardson, former Secretary of Energy
            Sandra V. Richardson, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
            Governor Tom Ridge, former Secretary of Homeland Security
            Lieutenant General Charles H. Roadman II, MD, USAF (Ret)
            Vice Admiral Clyde Robbins, USCG (Ret)
            Ambassador Thomas B. Robertson (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Harold L. Robinson, USN (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Stephen Rochon, USCG (Ret)
            Major General Alan V. Rogers, USAF (Ret)
            John Rogers, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Brigadier General Ronald F. Rokosz, USA (Ret)
            Command Sergeant Major Darryl N. Roland, USA (Ret)
            Lawrence Guzman Romo, former Director, U.S. Selective Service System
            Frank A. Rose, former Assistant Secretary of State
            Major General Patricia Rose, USAF (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Mark L. Rosenberg, USPHS (Ret)
            Tommy Ross, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Leslie V. Rowe (Ret)
            Monique Rowtham-Kennedy, former Deputy General Counsel, Department of Defense
            Major General David Rubenstein, FACHE, USA (Ret)
            Joel Rubin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Vice Admiral Roger T. Rufe, USCG (Ret)
            Brigadier General Maritza Ryan, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Paul J. Ryan, USN (Ret)
            Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, USA (Ret)
            Robert A. Sanders, LP.D, Chair, National Security, University of New Haven
            Ambassador Miriam Sapiro
            Ambassador Teresita C. Schaffer (Ret)
            James A. Schear, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Brigadier General Donald F. Schenk, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Brenda Brown Schoonover (Ret)
            Ambassador James Schumaker (Ret)
            Brigadier General Andrew M. Schuster, USA (Ret)
            Brigadier General John M. Schuster, USA (Ret)
            Daniel C. Schwartz, former General Counsel of the NSA
            Major General Errol R. Schwartz, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Kyle Scott (Ret)
            Ambassador Tod Sedgwick
            David Sedney, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            General Paul J. Selva, USAF (Ret), former Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
            General Robert W. Sennewald, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Joe Sestak, USN (Ret), former U.S. Congressman (PA-7)
            Sharon B. Seymour, former Senior Executive, U.S. Air Force
            Khushali Shah, former Managing Director, State Department Office of Foreign Assistance
            Rear Admiral Bill Shannon, USN (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Jim Shannon, USN (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy
            Andrew Shapiro, former Assistant Secretary of State
            Ambassador Daniel B. Shapiro
            Kelly M. Sharbel, Jr., former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Mattie R. Sharpless (Ret)
            Senior Master Sergeant Donald B. Shaw II, USAF (Ret)
            Christopher Shays, former U.S. Congressman (CT-4)
            Vice Admiral Herman Shelanski, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Robert A. Sherman
            Ambassador Wendy R. Sherman (Ret), former Under Secretary of State
            Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, Ph.D., former Deputy Secretary of Energy
            Russell D. Shilling, Ph.D., former Executive Director, Department of Education
            Rear Admiral David Simpson, USN (Ret)
            Vikram J. Singh, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            John Sipher, former Chief of Station, CIA
            Ambassador Emil Skodon (Ret)
            Walter B. Slocombe, former Under Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Dana Shell Smith (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Gregory J. Smith, USN (Ret)
            Jeffrey H. Smith, former General Counsel of the CIA
            Julianne Smith, former Deputy National Security Advisor
            Brigadier General Paul Gregory Smith, USA (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Steven Grayson Smith, USN (Ret)
            Ambassador Nancy E. Soderberg, former Deputy National Security Advisor
            Rear Admiral Steven L. Solomon, USPHS (Ret)
            Ambassador Alan Solomont
            Stan Soloway, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
            Ivo Spalatin, former Senior Policy Advisor, U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency
            Ambassador Daniel Speckhard (Ret)
            Robert M. Speer, former Acting Secretary of the Army
            Matt Spence, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Rear Admiral Todd Jay Squire, USN (Ret)
            Roy A. Stacy, Career Minister (Ret), Department of State
            Major General Clifford L. Stanley, USMC (Ret), former Under Secretary of Defense
            Donald C. Stanton, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Karen Clark Stanton (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Jim Stark, USN (Ret)
            James Steinberg, former Deputy Secretary of State
            Major General Howard D. Stendahl, USAF (Ret)
            Brigadier General Robert L. Stephens, USA (Ret)
            Mary M. Stickney, former Senior Advisor, Federal Judiciary
            Rear Admiral William Steven Stokes, USPHS (Ret)
            Bob Stone, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Ambassador Mark C. Storella (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Sergeant Major Kurtis J. Strickland, USA (Ret)
            Kenneth Stringer, Jr., Ph.D., former Division Chief, CIA
            Sergeant Major Peni M. Sua, USA (Ret)
            Kathryn Sullivan, former Administrator of NOAA
            Maura C. Sullivan, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
            Gordon Sumner, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Mona Sutphen, former White House Deputy Chief of Staff
            Kerry Sutten, former Deputy Staff Director, Senate Intelligence Committee
            Brigadier General Loree Sutton, USA (Ret)
            Major General Tony M. Taguba, USA (Ret)
            Major General Michael R. Taheri, USAF (Ret)
            Brigadier General Francis X. Taylor, USAF (Ret)
            Jarris Louis Taylor, Jr., Ed.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the US Air Force
            Ambassador Harry K. Thomas, Jr. (Ret)
            Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of State
            John K. Tien, former Senior Director, National Security Council
            Helen Tierney, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
            Rear Admiral Paul E. Tobin, USN (Ret)
            Jack Thomas Tomarchio, former Principal Deputy Under Secretary of Homeland Security
            Jim Townsend, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Major General Jon Treacy, USAF (Ret)
            Gregory F. Treverton, former Chair of the National Intelligence Council
            Lieutenant General William J. Troy, USA (Ret)
            Major General F. Andrew Turley, USAF (Ret)
            Christine L. Turner, former Director, National Security Council
            Brigadier General William W. Uhle, Jr., USAF (Ret)
            Admiral Henry G. "Harry" Ulrich, III, USN (Ret)
            Brigadier General Robin B. Umberg, USA (Ret)
            Thomas Umberg, former Deputy Director, White House Office of Nat'l Drug Control Policy
            Bruce G. Valentine, Jr., former Associate Deputy Director, CIA
            Brigadier General Scott P. Van Cleef, USAF (Ret)
            Rear Admiral William Craig Vanderwagen, USPHS (Ret)
            Ambassador Alexander Vershbow, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Lieutenant General Dale A. Vesser, USA (Ret)
            Darci Vetter, former Chief Agricultural Negotiator, Office of the U.S. Trade Representative
            Mike Vickers, former Under Secretary of Defense
            Governor Tom Vilsack, former Secretary of Agriculture
            Ambassador Jenonne Walker (Ret)
            Ambassador Marc Wall (Ret)
            Brigadier General George H. Walls, Jr., USMC (Ret)
            Ambassador James D. Walsh
            Ambassador Mary Warlick (Ret)
            Brigadier General John Watkins, USA (Ret)
            Jack H. Watson, Jr., former White House Chief of Staff
            Brigadier General Marianne Watson, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Earl Anthony Wayne (Ret)
            Andy Weber, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
            William Webster, former Director of the CIA
            William F. Wechsler, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Todd A. Weiler, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Casey Weinstein, Ohio State Representative
            Lieutenant General Jack Weinstein, USAF (Ret)
            General Joe Went, USMC (Ret)
            Ambassador Joseph Westphal, former Under Secretary of the Army
            Rear Admiral Hugh Denworth Wetherald, USN (Ret)
            Major General Deborah C. Wheeling, USA (Ret)
            Major General Craig B. Whelden, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador Barry B. White
            Ambassador Pamela White (Ret)
            Rear Admiral Robert A. Whitney, Jr., DVM, MS, USPHS (Ret)
            Command Master Chief Petty Officer Thomas C. Whitney, USN (Ret)
            Jon A. Wiant, former Senior Executive, Department of State
            Sheila Widnall, former Secretary of the Air Force
            Sergeant Major Alexander Williams, USMC (Ret)
            Ambassador Bisa Williams (Ret)
            Chief Master Sergeant Calvin D. Williams, Sr., USAF (Ret)
            Kayla M. Williams, former Director, Department of Veterans Affairs
            General Michael Williams, USMC (Ret)
            Ambassador Clint Williamson (Ret)
            Major General Margaret C. Wilmoth, Ph.D., MSS, RN, FAAN, USA (Ret)
            Douglas B. Wilson, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
            Rear Admiral Jesse A. Wilson, Jr., USN (Ret)
            General Johnnie E. Wilson, USA (Ret)
            Major General Ken Wisian, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
            Ambassador Duane E. Woerth
            Neal Wolin, former Deputy Secretary of Treasury
            Bryan Wood, former Assistant Deputy Commandant, U.S. Marine Corps
            Meredith Woodruff, former Center Chief, CIA
            Sergeant Major Bobby B. Woods, USMC (Ret)
            Bill Woodward, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
            Matice Wright-Springer, former Principal Director, Department of Defense
            Brigadier General Stephen N. Xenakis, MD, USA (Ret)
            Ambassador John M. Yates (Ret)
            Ambassador Johnny Young (Ret)
            Ambassador Marie L. Yovanovitch (Ret)
            Dov S. Zakheim, former Under Secretary of Defense
            Patricia J. Zarodkiewicz, former Senior Executive to the Secretary of the Air Force
            Mike Zehner, former Deputy General Counsel of the Air Force
            Joseph Zengerle, former Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
            Peter D. Zimmerman, Ph.D., former Chief Scientist, Senate Foreign Relations Committee
            General Anthony C. Zinni, USMC (Ret), former Commander U.S. Central Command
            Robert B. Zoellick, former U.S. Trade Representative
            Admiral Paul Zukunft, USCG (Ret), former Commandant of the Coast Guard
            Brigadier General Peter B. Zwack, USA (Ret)

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            • 3 likes

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            • #1416
              Pat Robertson Prophesies That Trump Will Win Reelection, Then the End Times Will Begin

              Televangelist Pat Robertson reported on “The 700 Club” today that he had been told by God that President Donald Trump will be reelected … and his reelection will bring about start of the End Times.

              Robertson said that “without question, Trump is going to win the election,” but it will result in widespread civil unrest, during which there will be at least two attempts to assassinate the president.

              While America is engulfed in chaos, Robertson predicted that Islamic nations will use it as an opportunity to attack Israel but will be wiped out by God, leading to “a remarkable time of peace.”

              Following several years of peace and global revival, the world will then experience the End Times’ “great tribulation” when an asteroid strikes the Earth.
              ___________

              As if we don't have enough to worry about already....
              “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
              ― Dwight D. Eisenhower
              • 1 like

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              • #1417
                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Pat Robertson Prophesies That Trump Will Win Reelection, Then the End Times Will Begin

                Televangelist Pat Robertson reported on “The 700 Club” today that he had been told by God that President Donald Trump will be reelected … and his reelection will bring about start of the End Times.

                Robertson said that “without question, Trump is going to win the election,” but it will result in widespread civil unrest, during which there will be at least two attempts to assassinate the president.

                While America is engulfed in chaos, Robertson predicted that Islamic nations will use it as an opportunity to attack Israel but will be wiped out by God, leading to “a remarkable time of peace.”

                Following several years of peace and global revival, the world will then experience the End Times’ “great tribulation” when an asteroid strikes the Earth.
                ___________

                As if we don't have enough to worry about already....
                Spare me from the ficken' dumb sh!ts of this world.
                • 3 likes

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                • #1418
                  Trump's health care plan is always two weeks away. Now the election is too.

                  For much of his first term, President Trump has claimed that significant proposals would be coming “soon” or “in a few weeks” or, often, “two weeks” — notably health care. He has been saying a cheaper health plan that would provide better coverage for all Americans than the Affordable Care Act has been just around the corner since the early days of his campaign in 2015. With two weeks until Election Day — and millions of votes already cast — the clock is ticking for Republicans as Democrats reprise their successful midterm strategy of warning that the administration and the GOP want to end mandated coverage for preexisting medical conditions.

                  In fact, it does, although it is trying to convince voters otherwise. Since the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, was signed into law in 2010, Republicans — including Trump — have campaigned on repealing it and replacing it with something “better.” After taking office in 2017, Trump failed to deliver despite the fact that Republicans had control of both chambers of Congress. Republican-governed states turned to the courts, bringing a lawsuit that would have the effect of overturning the ACA, which the Trump administration has joined. The case is set to be heard by the Supreme Court next month, and if Republicans succeed in seating Judge Amy Coney Barrett, she could cast the deciding vote.

                  Without protections for preexisting conditions provided by Obamacare, the Kaiser Family Foundation estimated in 2016 that up to 52 million people could be denied coverage. Millions more would lose insurance if the ACA’s Medicaid expansion were thrown out. A full repeal with no immediate replacement plan could also hurt the fight against opioid addiction and HIV, and would come during the coronavirus pandemic, which has killed more than 220,000 Americans and left many others with lingering health issues.

                  Last month, Trump rolled out a plan that he said would protect preexisting conditions, but it was a slogan, not proposed legislation. White House officials said that his “protections” for preexisting conditions would not actually be law should the ACA be repealed, but were a “defined statement of U.S. policy.” If the ACA is overturned by the Supreme Court, a “defined statement of policy” does not provide a legal mechanism to prevent insurance companies from refusing coverage to those with preexisting conditions, or charging so much for it as to make it unaffordable in practice.

                  During the September rollout, the White House also announced that Trump would be giving Congress a Jan. 1 deadline to pass legislation on surprise medical billing and encouraging more health care choice. In recent rallies, Trump has touted the importance of price transparency in lowering health care costs, but there are limits to the effectiveness of being able to “shop around” for health care if you live in a rural area where there’s only one hospital or are unconscious in the back of an ambulance, being transported for emergency care.

                  Republican attacks on the ACA have only made the law more popular, with a Fox News poll in June finding 56 percent support (up 4 percent from the prior year); a September Morning Consult poll pegging it at 62 percent; and tracking from the Kaiser Family Foundation finding 55 percent in favor. A New York Times/Siena College poll released Tuesday showed not only majority support (55 percent) for the ACA but also 67 percent backing for the plan supported by Democratic nominee Joe Biden, supplementing Obamacare with a “public option” of a government-run health care plan.

                  A majority of Americans opposed Republican plans to repeal the ACA in 2017, as studies found that the party’s alternatives would cause millions to lose their health insurance, along with AARP estimating it would raise health care costs for older Americans by thousands of dollars. Congressional Republicans and the Trump administration have yet to propose an alternative palatable to the American public, while Democrats have been debating expansion of coverage including a public option and the single-payer Medicare for All plan advanced by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt.

                  “Now, I have to tell you, it’s an unbelievably complex subject,” Trump said in February 2017. “Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.”

                  Health care was a top issue for Democrats in 2018 when they retook the House in the midterm elections, with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy blaming GOP losses on the party’s attempts to overturn the law. Attorney General William Barr was reportedly among those who urged Trump not to push for a full repeal. Democratic candidates were eager to engage on the topic.

                  In South Carolina this year, Democrat Jaime Harrison has made a tight race of his campaign against Sen. Lindsey Graham in part by focusing on a 2017 ACA replacement co-authored by Graham that Harrison claims would have ended health coverage for millions. In North Carolina, Republicans are trying to turn the focus to the extramarital affair of Democrat Cal Cunningham, but the challenger is maintaining his focus on health care as he attempts to unseat Republican Sen. Thom Tillis. In Iowa, Sen. Joni Ernst is being hammered by Democrat Theresa Greenfield for her repeated votes to repeal the ACA, dating back to the 2014 campaign, during which Ernst released an ad that showed her firing a handgun while the narrator said, “Once she sets her sights on Obamacare, Joni’s gonna unload.”

                  Earlier this month, Ernst was one of five vulnerable Republicans — the others were Sens. Martha McSally of Arizona, Susan Collins of Maine, Cory Gardner of Colorado and Dan Sullivan of Alaska — to vote for a symbolic bill against the lawsuit to end the ACA. Ernst is also, however, set to vote to confirm Barrett, whose confirmation hearings last week were used by Democrats as a platform to discuss health care.

                  “This Supreme Court nominee has signaled in the judicial equivalent of all caps that she believes the Affordable Care Act must go and that the precedent protecting the ACA doesn’t matter,” said Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I. “The big secretive influences behind this unseemly rush see this nominee as a judicial torpedo they are firing at the ACA.”

                  “President Trump has promised over and over and over again that he would repeal the Affordable Care Act,” said Sen. Chris Coons, D-Del. “He ran on that promise, but despite his very best efforts, he failed. My Republican colleagues here and in the House have voted over and over and over to repeal the Affordable Care Act since it was passed a decade ago, but thankfully for the people of our nation and my state, they too have been unsuccessful. And yet today, to make good on that promise to achieve what they could not accomplish through the democratic processes, they’re looking to the courts — in fact, to the court. They’re looking to this nominee.”

                  Signaling Republicans’ desire not to be associated with ACA repeal, and implicitly acknowledging that it would be unpopular, Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, dismissed the idea that Barrett would vote to overturn the law because she is a mother. (The four justices who voted to repeal the ACA in 2012 were fathers.) During her hearing, Barrett claimed she wasn’t familiar with Trump’s repeated claims that he would only nominate judges who would repeal the ACA, and, as nominees almost always do, declined to say how she would vote on a future case.

                  But those who are dependent on the protections in the ACA may have found it less than reassuring that she also declined to say whether Medicare — the government plan that provides health insurance for older Americans and has been in place for more than 50 years — was constitutional.

                  _____


                  Promises made, gullible idiots duped, promises broken.
                  “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
                  ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

                  Comment

                  • #1419
                    The poor guy is running out of money. Read the story of the rich and famous utilizing campaign funds.

                    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump’s sprawling political operation has raised well over $1 billion since he took the White House in 2017 — and set a lot of it on fire.

                    Trump bought a $10 million Super Bowl ad when he didn’t yet have a challenger. He tapped his political organization to cover exorbitant legal fees related to his impeachment. Aides made flashy displays of their newfound wealth — including a fleet of luxury vehicles purchased by Brad Parscale, his former campaign manager.

                    Meanwhile, a web of limited liability companies hid more than $310 million in spending from disclosure, records show.

                    Now, just two weeks out from the election, some campaign aides privately acknowledge they are facing difficult spending decisions at a time when Democratic nominee Joe Biden has flooded the airwaves with advertising. That has put Trump in the position of needing to do more of his signature rallies as a substitute during the coronavirus pandemic while relying on an unproven theory that he can turn out supporters who are infrequent voters at historic levels.

                    “They spent their money on unnecessary overhead, lifestyles-of-the-rich-and-famous activity by the campaign staff and vanity ads way too early,” said Mike Murphy, a veteran Republican consultant who advised John McCain and Jeb Bush and is an outspoken Trump critic. “You could literally have 10 monkeys with flamethrowers go after the money, and they wouldn’t have burned through it as stupidly.”

                    For Trump, it’s a familiar, if not welcome, position. In 2016, he was vastly outraised by Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton but still pulled off a come-from-behind win. This time around, though, he was betting on a massive cash advantage to negatively define Biden and to defend his own record.

                    Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien insisted money was no issue. “We have more than sufficient air cover, almost three times as much as 2016,” he told reporters Monday.

                    Biden, Stepien added, was “putting it all on TV,” as he eschewed most door-knocking because of the pandemic, while Trump has roughly 2,000 field staffers across the country knocking on doors and making calls for his campaign.

                    “Where we have states that are sort of tipping, could go either way,” Trump told campaign staffers Monday, “I have an ability to go to those states and rally. Biden has no ability. I go to a rally, we have 25,000 people. He goes to a rally, and he has four people.”


                    The campaign and the Republican National Committee will offer a glimpse of their financial situation Tuesday when they file mandatory monthly campaign finance reports.

                    Advertising spending figures, however, offer a bleak picture.

                    While a half-dozen pro-Trump outside groups are coming to the president’s aid, Biden and his Democratic allies are on pace to dump $142 million into ads in the closing days of the campaign, outspending Republicans by more than 2-to-1, according to data from the ad tracking firm CMAG/Kantar.

                    On Monday, the firm Medium Buying reported Trump was canceling ad buys in Wisconsin; Minnesota, which Trump had hoped to flip; and Ohio, which went for Trump in 2016 but now appears to be a tight contest.

                    It’s a reversal from May, when Biden’s campaign was strapped for cash and Parscale ominously compared the Trump campaign to a “Death Star” that was about to “start pressing FIRE for the first time.”

                    The ad campaign they unrolled over the next three months cost over $176 million but did little to dent Biden’s lead in public opinion polling.

                    Trump is now in a position that’s virtually unthinkable for an incumbent president, said Travis Ridout, co-director of the Wesleyan Media Project, which tracks advertising spending.

                    “Advertising obviously isn’t everything. But we do think ads matter for a couple percentage points in a presidential race. And it’s just not a good sign for the Trump campaign,” Ridout said.

                    A review of expenditures by Trump’s campaign, as well as the Republican National Committee, lays bare some of the profligate spending.

                    Since 2017, more than $39 million has been paid to firms controlled by Parscale, who was ousted as campaign manager over the summer. An additional $273.2 million was paid to American Made Media Consultants, a Delaware limited liability company, whose owners are not publicly disclosed.

                    Campaigns typically reveal in mandatory disclosures who their primary vendors are. But by routing money to Parscale’s firms, as well as American Made Media Consultants, Trump satisfied the basic disclosure requirements without detailing the ultimate recipients.

                    Other questionable expenditures by Trump and the RNC that are included in campaign finance disclosures:

                    — Nearly $100,000 spent on copies of Donald Trump Jr.’s book “Triggered,” which helped propel it to the top of the New York Times bestsellers list.

                    — Over $7.4 million spent at Trump-branded properties since 2017.

                    — At least $35.2 million spent on Trump merchandise.

                    — $38.7 million in legal and “compliance” fees. In addition to tapping the RNC and his campaign to pay legal costs during his impeachment proceedings, Trump has also relied on his political operation to cover legal costs for some aides.

                    — At least $14.1 million spent on the Republican National Convention. The event was supposed to have been held in Charlotte, North Carolina, but Trump relocated it to Jacksonville, Florida, after a dispute with North Carolina’s Democratic governor over coronavirus safety measures. The Florida event was ultimately cancelled, as well, with a mostly online convention taking its place.

                    — $912,000 spent on ads that ran on the personal Facebook pages of Parscale and Trump spokesperson Katrina Pierson.

                    — A $250,000 ad run during Game 7 of the 2019 World Series, which came after Trump was booed by spectators when he attended Game 5.

                    — At least $218,000 for Trump surrogates to travel aboard private jets provided by campaign donors.

                    — $1.6 million on TV ads in the Washington, D.C., media market, an overwhelmingly Democratic area where Trump has little chance of winning but where he is a regular TV watcher.

                    Instead of giving more to Trump, some supporters are exploring their options.

                    Republican megadonor Sheldon Adelson and his wife, Miriam, recently donated $75 million to Preserve America, a new pro-Trump super political action committee that is not controlled by Trump World political operatives.

                    One of the reasons the group was founded in August is because there is deep distrust among some GOP donors that the existing pro-Trump organizations would spend the money wisely, according to a Republican strategist with direct knowledge of the matter. The strategist spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive discussions with donors.

                    Dan Eberhart, who has given over $190,000 to Trump’s election efforts, said many Republican donors are now focused on keeping control of the Senate in GOP hands — not Trump’s chances of winning.

                    “The Senate majority is the most important objective right now,” he said. “It’s the bulwark against so much bad policy that the Democrats want to do if they sweep the elections.”
                    https://apnews.com/article/election-...a44fedcbf5b128
                    Last edited by tbm3fan; 20 Oct 20,, 20:39.
                    • 1 like

                    Comment

                    • #1420
                      Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

                      Spare me from the ficken' dumb sh!ts of this world.
                      How much money did he ask for at the end of the prophecy?
                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

                      Comment

                      • #1421
                        Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

                        How much money did he ask for at the end of the prophecy?
                        How ever much Robertson gets, I doubt that Trump will see one dime of it
                        “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
                        ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

                        Comment

                        • #1422
                          The FBI has verified possession of the Biden laptop and confirms it is not connected to any misinformation campaign.
                          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-laptops.html

                          Comment

                          • #1423
                            Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                            Seriously, I watch regular old network evening news
                            Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                            https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-laptops.html
                            The Daily Mail...oh man, bless your heart.
                            “Never let yourself be persuaded that any one Great Man, any one leader, is necessary to the salvation of America. When America consists of one leader and 158 million followers, it will no longer be America.”
                            ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

                            Comment

                            • #1424
                              I watched the ABC evening new tonight. It was awful.

                              Comment

                              • #1425
                                Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                                I watched the ABC evening new tonight. It was awful.
                                Too many pesky facts?
                                Trust me?
                                I'm an economist!
                                • 1 like

                                Comment

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