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  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

    Name any US President that's called China out to the extent he has since Nixon visited China.
    Actually the answer by AR is sufficient.

    I will add that the Chinese have accelerated their island building and fortifications in the SCS.

    Comment


    • Ah, no town hall debate next week as Trump doesn't want to sit behind a computer. I was kind of looking forward to that because he does have a slight resemblance to Max Headroom with the orange skin and hair although Max was funnier.

      I am also bummed in that I am 6'1", 170 lbs, and with 4.5% body fat and thought I was a good physical specimen.

      Sooner or later he will have to come off the steroid.

      US President Donald Trump has refused to take part in a virtual TV debate with his Democratic rival Joe Biden.

      The commission organising the debate in Miami on 15 October had earlier said it would have to take place remotely.

      It made the decision after Mr Trump was treated for Covid-19. The president said he would not waste his time on a move designed to "protect" his rival.

      Mr Biden's campaign said Mr Trump was trying to evade accountability on his "failures on Covid and the eco

      Both teams later appeared to agree on 22 October as a rescheduled date, although the form of the new debate remained unclear.

      The first presidential debate on 30 September had descended into insults and interruptions. The vice-presidential debate, held on Wednesday night between Mike Pence and Kamala Harris, was a far more measured affair.

      The US election will be held on 3 November. Latest opinion polls suggest Mr Biden has a high single digit lead nationally, but the outcome is often decided in battleground states where the races can be much closer.

      President Trump's comments during a phone-in interview with Fox Business Channel on Thursday touched on a number of key matters, including his health and the possibility of movement towards a stimulus package for the economy.

      But it was his comments on the debate format that drew most attention.

      Mr Trump said: "I'm not gonna waste my time on a personal debate. Sit behind a computer, ridiculous. They cut you off... I'm not doing a virtual debate."

      He also described the moderator of the Miami debate - the political editor of the cable and satellite television network C-SPAN, Steve Scully - as a "never Trumper".

      Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien, who had also previously tested positive for Covid, said the decision of the commission to "rush to Joe Biden's defence" was "pathetic" and Mr Trump would have posted "multiple negative tests" before the debate.

      He said the Republican president would hold a rally instead.

      On his health, Mr Trump said: "I'm back because I'm a perfect physical specimen."

      He said he had stopped taking most "therapeutics" but was still taking steroids and would be tested for Covid again "soon".

      But although his doctor has said he now has no symptoms, questions still remain about when the president first became infected and whether he could still be contagious.

      And although the names of many people who have interacted with the president and tested positive are now known, it remains unclear just how many were exposed at the White House. New Covid safety measures are in place there.

      One of the top Republicans, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, said on Thursday that he had not been to the White House since 6 August because its approach to handling Covid with social distancing and masks was "different from mine and what I suggested we do in the Senate".

      Mr Trump said on Thursday that "somebody got in and people got infected" but gave no more details

      A gathering on 26 September announcing Mr Trump's Supreme Court pick has been seen as a possible "super-spreader" event, with several attendees known to have tested positive.

      Mr Biden had previously been wary of an on-stage debate event, saying he would attend if medical experts gave the go-ahead.

      He said after Mr Trump's comments on the virtual debate: "We don't know what the president's going to do. He changes his mind every second."
      Image copyright Reuters Image caption Joe Biden: "You never know what's going to come out of his mouth"
      A statement from the campaign's communications director Kate Bedingfield said Mr Biden had been prepared for a virtual debate but "Donald Trump clearly does not want to face questions from the voters".

      "As a result, Joe Biden will find an appropriate place to take questions from voters directly on October 15th."

      The 90-minute Miami debate was due to be held at the Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts, with local residents in the audience posing questions to the candidates.

      There appears to be some consensus now between the campaigns that the debate should be moved to 22 October.

      The Biden team said the town-hall style debate should go ahead so that voters "have a chance to ask questions of both candidates, directly" as every candidate had done since 1992.

      The Trump team has agreed to the date, and said it should be face-to-face. It also said the third debate - already scheduled for 22 October in Tennessee - should be moved to 29 October, just five days before polling.

      The Commission on Presidential Debates said the decision it announced on Thursday to force the candidates to take part "from separate remote locations" had been made "to protect the health and safety of all involved".
      Image copyright EPA Image caption The White House is still trying to cope with a Covid-19 outbreak

      What about the economy?

      The president on Tuesday had said he was breaking off talks with the Democrats on an overarching Covid stimulus package but, after a negative stock market reaction, said he would instead try to agree individual deals.

      He was more bullish on Thursday, saying he saw "really good" odds of reaching a deal on a range of issues.

      "We're starting to have some very productive talks," he said.

      The main areas of progress were on assistance for airlines and a $1,200 (930) stimulus cheque for workers.

      Republicans under Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Democrats under House Speaker Nancy Pelosi have been in regular discussions but have differed on the amount they want to spend.

      In the latest twist on Thursday, Ms Pelosi said there would be no standalone bill for the airlines without a bigger bill.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54465139

      Comment


      • No need for virtual debate. Have another when he feels up to it. There's still time.

        Some things have to be done face to face

        Comment


        • The three countries that helped China the most, US, Taiwan & Japan are all at the receiving end today.

          How will a Democrat administration under Biden handle China ?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

            Pence didn't say that. But all know which party will put the pressure on China and which will release it.

            Obama's flip flops here are well known.

            G2 was his idea in 2009, by 2012 he says pivot to Asia and by 2013 he stops the FONOPS which only got resumed after Trump entered office.

            With Obama the FONOPS were loud and few under Trump they were quiet and frequent.

            Trump's been consistent on China since he was a candidate.

            Trump believes in action. The Dems prefer words.
            What was it the Bush (Sr) White House said to Deng Xiaoping after the Tiananmen Massacre?

            Oh, yeah. Naughty, naughty. We're going to have to criticize you for that. But, our relationship is still very important, so don't take it too badly.
            (The Democratically controlled Congress imposed sanctions. But, hey, the GOPers are really tough on China, aren't they?)


            Turning a blind eye to repression in Xinjiang? GOPers in 2002-09, and again more recently.

            And, while we're here, which party did the Asia pivot, which caused a deterioration in Sino-American relations? Who bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade?
            Oh, yeah. That's was the Democrats, wasn't it?

            South China Sea FONOPs, increased under the Obama Administration. But, if you weren't in the area, you might not have noticed all the port calls. The Trumpet suspended FONOPs in the first couple of months of its maladministration, in the enormously simplistic belief that China would instantly force North Korea to the bargaining table. Didn't work, and didn't have a chance in hell of working. So, by Summer 2017, flip became flop.

            Boy, those Democrats are a push-over for China, huh? I guess the only way to appear to be tough on China is to launch a trade war against your own consumers and companies …

            Trust me?
            I'm an economist!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              No need for virtual debate. Have another when he feels up to it. There's still time.

              Some things have to be done face to face
              Yeah, like infections.
              Trust me?
              I'm an economist!

              Comment


              • Why should Biden take any risk now that he is comfortably ahead. He should just say that he is willing to debate Trump virtually, and Trump can decide if he wants to or not

                Comment


                • Joe Biden is refusing to answer if he will pack the court

                  https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/polit...ing/index.html

                  I think Biden is walking a tight line here. Most Democrats, even centrist ones probably wouldn't care since they are rightly angry at the hypocrisy on the part of the Republicans to push a candidate while denying a hearing for Garland for 11 months prior to the last election. On the other hand you can expect the right wing media to pound away at his every day until the election, which might cost Biden perhaps the 1-2 percent of former Republican, or Independent center right voters who seem to have been drifting towards him the past few weeks.

                  On the other hand explicitly coming out and saying he wont pack the court will probably cost Biden more due to demoralization on the left wing of the Democratic party.

                  Although, I am pretty sure a Biden administration will not pack the Supreme Court, the political cost will be too high and there probably will be no other meaningful legislation the Democrats would be able to pass after that.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by InExile View Post
                    Why should Biden take any risk now that he is comfortably ahead. He should just say that he is willing to debate Trump virtually, and Trump can decide if he wants to or not
                    Isn't that just what happened? Apparently Biden is going to hold a televised 'town hall' anyway.
                    sigpic

                    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DOR View Post

                      What was it the Bush (Sr) White House said to Deng Xiaoping after the Tiananmen Massacre?

                      Oh, yeah. Naughty, naughty. We're going to have to criticize you for that. But, our relationship is still very important, so don't take it too badly.
                      (The Democratically controlled Congress imposed sanctions. But, hey, the GOPers are really tough on China, aren't they?)
                      what did he say ?

                      The Democrats were more vocal after Tianamen but does not count as they were in the opposition.

                      The one lasting legacy of Tianamen is the west stopped arms deals with China. Don't know if HW was responsible for that.

                      Originally posted by DOR View Post
                      Turning a blind eye to repression in Xinjiang? GOPers in 2002-09, and again more recently.
                      What was going on in Xinajiang in 2002-09 ? saw a CGTN program where they were talking about terrorists. It was like a tenth of what we see in J&K. Bush would not be saying anything about it then. Unlike Clinton that did his best to interfere in J&K in his first term.

                      Originally posted by DOR View Post
                      And, while we're here, which party did the Asia pivot, which caused a deterioration in Sino-American relations? Who bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade?
                      Oh, yeah. That's was the Democrats, wasn't it?
                      Pivot was fine but how credible was it ?

                      Bombing the embassy in Belgrade i understood to be a mistake. Chinese didn't believe that though.

                      Originally posted by DOR View Post
                      South China Sea FONOPs, increased under the Obama Administration. But, if you weren't in the area, you might not have noticed all the port calls.
                      Drone strikes went up with Obama not FONOPS which he suspended in 2013. This i learnt only a few years later to my surprise. Linked it here couple years back. See the transcript with Dean Cheng.

                      How does pivot to Asia not include any FONOPS ? Obama cut a deal with 11 Jing Ping for cooperation with Climate change (!)

                      Did not help that China reneged and went on to militarise those islands. Hence the resumption of FONOPS under Trump.


                      Originally posted by DOR View Post
                      The Trumpet suspended FONOPs in the first couple of months of its maladministration, in the enormously simplistic belief that China would instantly force North Korea to the bargaining table. Didn't work, and didn't have a chance in hell of working. So, by Summer 2017, flip became flop.
                      Trump went further than any other president in trying to cut a deal with Kim. Who can fault him for this ?

                      I was not going to second guess the attempt. All of this happened because of Moon. A strong willingness in the south for a settlement.


                      It was for Kim to deliver on his end and clearly that did not happen hence Trump walked out of the second meeting in Vietnam.

                      Originally posted by DOR View Post
                      Boy, those Democrats are a push-over for China, huh? I guess the only way to appear to be tough on China is to launch a trade war against your own consumers and companies …

                      When the US buys 3-4x times more from China than the other way around it stands to reason they would be affected more than the US. Don't need to be an economist to realise that.

                      Click image for larger version  Name:	pence censored.jpg Views:	0 Size:	61.7 KB ID:	1566687

                      Speaks volumes isn't it. We know who China prefers.

                      Click the graphic above to go to the tweet.
                      Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Oct 20,, 14:15.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        The three countries that helped China the most, US, Taiwan & Japan are all at the receiving end today.

                        How will a Democrat administration under Biden handle China ?
                        No takers ? Nobody has a clue ?

                        That's the point isn't it.

                        With Trump we know what to expect, warts and all.
                        Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Oct 20,, 15:30.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by InExile View Post
                          Joe Biden is refusing to answer if he will pack the court

                          https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/polit...ing/index.html

                          I think Biden is walking a tight line here. Most Democrats, even centrist ones probably wouldn't care since they are rightly angry at the hypocrisy on the part of the Republicans to push a candidate while denying a hearing for Garland for 11 months prior to the last election. On the other hand you can expect the right wing media to pound away at his every day until the election, which might cost Biden perhaps the 1-2 percent of former Republican, or Independent center right voters who seem to have been drifting towards him the past few weeks.

                          On the other hand explicitly coming out and saying he wont pack the court will probably cost Biden more due to demoralization on the left wing of the Democratic party.

                          Although, I am pretty sure a Biden administration will not pack the Supreme Court, the political cost will be too high and there probably will be no other meaningful legislation the Democrats would be able to pass after that.
                          11:25 he says he would not do it. This was during the primaries



                          Question is can he get his way when he becomes President.

                          I did find that video a bit concerning. if the SC becomes partisan then it will affect the perception of its judgments

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post

                            Yet the USPS web site says they process 472 million pieces of mail each day
                            The issue isn't fraud, but capacity to handle the increased volume. 45 states have to be ready by Nov 3. Trump did allude to capacity.



                            Is your vote going to get counted in time ?

                            USPS alerted 46 states that it cannot ensure ballots sent by mail in the general election will arrive in time to be counted

                            NYC primary could not handle mail in votes


                            If the Dems are relying on mail votes, then it does not look good. Funny thing is they don't have a problem with it.

                            The side whose supporters show up at the booths will get their votes counted.
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Oct 20,, 15:30.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by InExile View Post
                              Joe Biden is refusing to answer if he will pack the court

                              https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/polit...ing/index.html

                              I think Biden is walking a tight line here. Most Democrats, even centrist ones probably wouldn't care since they are rightly angry at the hypocrisy on the part of the Republicans to push a candidate while denying a hearing for Garland for 11 months prior to the last election. On the other hand you can expect the right wing media to pound away at his every day until the election, which might cost Biden perhaps the 1-2 percent of former Republican, or Independent center right voters who seem to have been drifting towards him the past few weeks.

                              On the other hand explicitly coming out and saying he wont pack the court will probably cost Biden more due to demoralization on the left wing of the Democratic party.

                              Although, I am pretty sure a Biden administration will not pack the Supreme Court, the political cost will be too high and there probably will be no other meaningful legislation the Democrats would be able to pass after that.
                              You may have also noticed that he has categorically refused to comment on annexing Greenland. In other words, when asked a nonsense hypothetical question, it is rarely useful to provide any serious response.

                              No, he doesn’t comment on time travel, unicorns, or pixies, either.
                              Get over it.
                              Last edited by DOR; 09 Oct 20,, 16:41.
                              Trust me?
                              I'm an economist!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                                what did he say ?

                                The Democrats were more vocal after Tianamen but does not count as they were in the opposition.

                                The one lasting legacy of Tianamen is the west stopped arms deals with China. Don't know if HW was responsible for that.


                                What was going on in Xinajiang in 2002-09 ? saw a CGTN program where they were talking about terrorists. It was like a tenth of what we see in J&K. Bush would not be saying anything about it then. Unlike Clinton that did his best to interfere in J&K in his first term.


                                Pivot was fine but how credible was it ?

                                Bombing the embassy in Belgrade i understood to be a mistake. Chinese didn't believe that though.


                                Drone strikes went up with Obama not FONOPS which he suspended in 2013. This i learnt only a few years later to my surprise. Linked it here couple years back. See the transcript with Dean Cheng.

                                How does pivot to Asia not include any FONOPS ? Obama cut a deal with 11 Jing Ping for cooperation with Climate change (!)

                                Did not help that China reneged and went on to militarise those islands. Hence the resumption of FONOPS under Trump.



                                Trump went further than any other president in trying to cut a deal with Kim. Who can fault him for this ?

                                I was not going to second guess the attempt. All of this happened because of Moon. A strong willingness in the south for a settlement.


                                It was for Kim to deliver on his end and clearly that did not happen hence Trump walked out of the second meeting in Vietnam.


                                When the US buys 3-4x times more from China than the other way around it stands to reason they would be affected more than the US. Don't need to be an economist to realise that.

                                Click image for larger version Name:	pence censored.jpg Views:	0 Size:	61.7 KB ID:	1566687

                                Speaks volumes isn't it. We know who China prefers.

                                Click the graphic above to go to the tweet.
                                US Sanctions post Tiananmen: What part of “The Democratically controlled Congress imposed sanctions,”, and not GHW Bush, wasn't unclear? That arms embargo? Congress, under (Democratic) Speaker Tom Foley.


                                Xinjiang: Let's be clear about the history of Sino-Uyghur relations. There have been company-sized battles more years than not since at least the 1950s. Under Hu Jintao, the Strike Hard campaign took repressing up a notch, but the Bush (Jr) administration decided to turn a blind eye following 9/11 on the basis of the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim.

                                Oh, and don't forget that just because something wasn't as bad as it is now, doesn't mean it wasn't the worst ever as of that time. Remember how awful George W Bush was? Well, The Trumpet makes him look kinda not-so-good, doesn't he?


                                Pivot to Asia. You may not think it was credible, but that really isn't important, is it? The issue is how the two parties dealt with China over the years, and the credibility of your assertion that the GOPers are tougher on China than Democrats.
                                Case not proven.


                                Belgrade. It is very useful for you and lots of other people to think it was a mistake. Personally, I find it very curious that in the middle of the conflict (and, according to CIA Director George Tenet), that particular bombing was the only one organized and directed by the CIA.


                                South China Sea FONOPs. Are you denying that US conducted FONOPs in the South China Sea in 2013, and in 2014? Or that two were in 2015 and three in 2016? Might want to check with the crew of the USS Lasson, USS Wilbur Curtis, and USS William P. Lawrence on some of those.


                                North Korea. There is a very, very large difference between going further than any other president in trying to cut a deal with Kim and handling North Korea intelligently. Being played for a fool is entertaining, not useful.


                                Trade war. Yes, you do need to be an economist – and a China Hand! – to understand The Trumpet's trade war.

                                1. The majority of products the US buys from China are made by foreign-invested companies. Many of them moved there from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, and Korea, and some from the US and Europe. Those companies are the ones providing the great majority of the low-cost consumer (and non-consumer) goods that help control the cost of living in the US. Driving up the price US businesses and consumers pay for those products doesn't hurt “China” at all, and only causes those particular factories to seek out new markets elsewhere. More likely, importers simply raise their prices.

                                2. A great part of US sales to China is agricultural. The Chinese target agricultural products in the inevitable retaliation to The Trumpet's trade war. That very, very specifically hurts US farmers.


                                = = =

                                How will the Biden Administration deal with China?
                                More intelligently.
                                Last edited by DOR; 09 Oct 20,, 16:43.
                                Trust me?
                                I'm an economist!

                                Comment

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