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  • Trump's doctor says the president already has antibodies. That might not mean he is cured with long-term immunity — it could just be his medication.

    White House physician Sean Conley reported that President Trump has "detectable levels" of coronavirus antibodies.

    The president, who was diagnosed with COVID-19 Thursday, recently returned to the White House from Walter Reed Military Medical Center. According to Conley, Trump's blood tested positive for Ig antibodies — a type of protective protein that helps us fight off infection — on Monday.

    That announcement left several experts scratching their heads. Typically, it takes the immune system between one and three weeks to make enough antibodies that can be detected in a lab. But a peek at Trump's treatment at Walter Reed may explain why he has antibodies just six days after testing positive for COVID-19.

    In his report, Conley failed to mention that Trump recently took a single, 8 mg dose of an experimental antibody cocktail called REGN-COV2 from drug company Regeneron that's been shown to improve symptoms in non-hospitalized patients.

    "This is a really wild thing," Peter Chin-Hong, an infectious disease expert at the University of California, San Francisco, told Business Insider. "Most likely, it's a false positive because of the antibody cocktail he got on Friday."

    The test 'likely' detected antibodies from the cocktail
    President Donald Trump disembarks from the Marine One helicopter followed by White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows as he arrives at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center after the White House announced that he "will be working from the presidential offices at Walter Reed for the next few days" after testing positive for the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), Joshua Roberts/ReutersMore
    A spokeswoman from Regeneron suggests Chin-Hong's assessment is on point.

    Given the timing of the test, and the fact that Trump received an 8 mg dose — the higher of two doses from REGN-COV2's clinical trial by more than a factor of three (the other dose was 2.4 mg) — "it's likely" that the test is detecting antibodies from the Regeneron cocktail, company spokeswoman Hala Mirza, said in a statement Wednesday.

    Most tests that look for immunoglobulin G (IgG), the most common antibody found in our blood, cannot distinguish between endogenous antibodies, meaning the ones the patient's immune system made, and antibodies "delivered by our therapy," Mirza added.

    Antibodies show up between one and 3 weeks after a person gets infected, meaning Trump could still be infectious
    Antibodies help the body identify invading pathogens, then mark them for destruction by aggressive white blood cells.

    Some people develop them within the first week of getting sick, according to the CDC. But in other COVID-19 infections, Ig antibodies arise "within two to three weeks after illness onset."

    Research suggests you should wait at least two weeks after the onset of COVID-19 symptoms before taking an antibody test.

    "In medicine, we don't check for antibodies much more than two weeks after infection because they take some some time to develop," Chin-Hong said.

    According to Conley, Trump's medical team detected his antibodies just four days after Trump's positive diagnosis on Thursday. Bloomberg News reported that a few aides think Trump might have been exhibiting symptoms a day earlier.

    That means that Trump could still have an active coronavirus infection, since the virus's incubation period can be up to two weeks long.

    "He should be wearing a mask," Chin-Hong said, adding: "You can have antibody detection and still be infectious. They're not mutually exclusive."

    If the antibodies aren't from the drug cocktail, this could mean Trump's been sick for longer than a week
    President Donald Trump poses for a White House photograph to show him working during his stay at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Bethesda, Md. Tia Dufour/The White House via Getty Images
    If Trump's antibodies are, indeed, endogenous, that could suggest the president has been sick for longer than his diagnosis timeline indicates.

    "It is possible that he was infected for longer than reported as there has not been complete clarity on when he developed symptoms and when he last tested negative," Monica Gandhi, a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, told Business Insider via email.

    That could be somewhat good news for those concerned about President Trump's health.

    Typically, patients with severe COVID-19 take a turn for the worse between the 7- to 10-day window, which is likely why Trump's doctors said they were still "on guard" Monday.

    But according to Chin-Hong, that downturn may have already happened for Trump when he went to the hospital over the weekend.

    "If you go back in time, he could've had it two weeks ago from Monday," he said, adding, "that suggests this might now be the second phase of his disease, rather than the first."

    Gandhi agreed: "The development of IgG antibodies is usually associated with a decrease in symptoms," she said, adding, "so, yes, this is a good sign for him in terms of hope for not having severe symptoms."

    This doesn't necessarily mean Trump is immune
    Even if Trump's antibodies are the real deal, and not from the Regeneron cocktail, that doesn't necessarily mean he has long-term coronavirus immunity.

    With some diseases, like measles and hepatitis A, infection is a one-and-done deal. Once you get sick and recover, you're immune for life.

    "For human coronaviruses, that's not the case," Florian Krammer, a vaccinologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, previously told Business Insider. "You can get repeatedly infected once your immunity goes down."
    A young Detroit resident is tested for coronavirus antibodies on April 28, 2020. REUTERS/Rebecca Cook
    What's more, it's still unclear what level of antibodies a person needs to be considered immune.

    With many better-studied viruses like measles, Krammer said, "you know how many antibodies you need to be protected."

    But we don't have a specific number for the coronavirus.

    Reports of coronavirus reinfections lend further credence to the idea that our immunity may be fleeting.

    "We do not know how long immunity lasts or if patients can have full immunity from natural infection," Gandhi said.

    That's why — even in light of this antibody news — Trump can't say he's now immune, she added.

    The president alluded to his potential protection from the virus in a Twitter video Monday, saying: "Now I'm better and maybe I'm immune."
    ______________

    Always another side to the story....


    My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

    Comment


    • Fox News Poll: Biden gains ground over Trump

      A 70 percent majority believes our democracy is “in danger” in this election

      Democratic candidate Joe Biden leads President Donald Trump by a 53-43 percent margin, in a Fox News national survey of likely voters conducted after a combative debate and the president testing positive for coronavirus. Biden’s 10-point advantage is up from a 5-point lead last month.



      The incumbent faces a challenging landscape:

      -- Voters think the stakes are high. A 70 percent majority believes our democracy is “in danger” in this election, including about 8 in 10 Biden supporters and 6 in 10 Trump supporters.



      -- On coronavirus, most, 72 percent, favor requiring masks when people are outside their home, while the number who think the virus is under control is small (24 percent mostly/completely) -- and down from a month ago (30 percent). Almost twice as many voters prioritize limiting the spread of coronavirus over restarting the economy.

      -- Most rate economic conditions negatively (65 percent only fair/poor).

      Coronavirus and the economy are the two issues that matter most to voters in deciding their choice for president. The same number, 44 percent, say the pandemic will be the single most important factor as say the economy will be the top factor. That’s more than say the same about health care (34 percent), racism (26 percent), the Supreme Court and violent crime (25 percent each).

      Biden leads Trump by 39 points among those saying coronavirus is the most important factor, while Trump is preferred among those saying the economy by 12.


      Twice as many voters want to keep ObamaCare in place as want to repeal the health care law (64-32 percent), and voters who prioritize health care favor Biden by 32 points.

      Those who say violent crime is the most important factor to their vote favor Trump by a single point, while voters who prioritize racism back Biden by 44.

      A 58 percent majority thinks the way Trump talks about racial inequality is leading to an increase in violence, including 28 percent of those supporting him. For comparison, 38 percent believe Biden’s language incites violence, including 17 percent backing him.

      On the Supreme Court, 54 percent don’t think a president should get to appoint someone to a lifetime position this close to the election, while 44 percent think it is the responsibility of current leaders to act to fill the vacancy created by Justice Ginsburg’s death. This is a reversal from 2016, in the wake of Justice Scalia’s death, when most felt it was the responsibility of current leaders to act by a 62-34 percent margin.

      Views divide evenly over increasing the number of justices on the Supreme Court, with about one in five unsure.

      Biden leads Trump by 5 points among those saying the high court is the most important factor in their vote. At the same time, half would vote to confirm Amy Coney Barrett. Nine in 10 Republicans favor her confirmation, while 8 in 10 Democrats oppose it. Support for Barrett’s confirmation is a touch better than the highest numbers Brett Kavanaugh received for his nomination and in line with the highest Neil Gorsuch received.



      Voters say Biden is a strong leader by 5 points, while they think Trump is not by 4 points.

      Among groups, Biden owes his lead mainly to support from women (+19 points), especially suburban women (+25 points), Hispanics (+43), and voters under age 35 (+43).

      Trump is favored by Whites (+9 points), White women without a college degree (+10), White Catholics (+11), rural voters (+13), and White men without a college degree (+19).

      In 2016, Trump won men by 11 points and those ages 65+ by 9, according to Pew Research Center validated voter data. The new survey finds Biden with a slight edge among seniors (+2 points) and men (+1).

      Equal numbers of Biden (75 percent) and Trump (77 percent) backers are extremely committed to their candidate and extremely interested in the election (65 and 66 percent respectively).

      Voters planning to cast a ballot by mail favor Biden by 41 points, while Trump leads by 11 points among those planning to vote in person.

      Among registered voters:

      -- More voters like Biden than Trump, and that’s increasingly true. Biden’s favorable ratings are net positive by 16 points (57 favorable vs. 41 unfavorable), while Trump’s are underwater by 10 (44-54). The president’s favorable is down 3 points from his record 47 percent in April. Since that time, Biden’s favorable is up 9 points (48 percent in April).



      -- Views of Vice President Mike Pence are more negative than positive by 1 point (47 favorable vs. 48 unfavorable), while views of Kamala Harris are net positive by 13 (53-40).



      -- An increasing number think neighbors support Trump. By an 11-point margin, more think their neighbors are for Trump than Biden. In August, that was a 5-point spread. Democratic pollster Chris Anderson, who conducts the Fox News survey with Republican Daron Shaw, believes more voters thinking their neighbors are for Trump is due to, “a combination of 2016 PTSD and liberal anxiety.” More Democrats say their neighbors back Trump (22 percent) than Republicans think theirs support Biden (9 percent), and very liberals (34 percent) are nearly three times as likely as very conservatives (13 percent) to think others are voting for the competition.



      -- Trump’s job rating mostly holds steady, as 47 percent approve and 52 percent disapprove. Last month, it was 48-51 percent. While approval of Trump has never hit 50 percent, it was 49-49 percent in April. He’s leaving votes on the table, as more voters approve of his job performance than are supporting him in the race against Biden.

      -- A record 41 percent see the disruption Trump has brought to Washington as a good thing, up from 35 percent two years ago. Still, a majority of 52 percent sees it as a bad thing, including 10 percent of Republicans and 7 percent of Trump supporters.

      -- Views on abortion remain divided: 53 percent think it should be legal all (31 percent) or most of the time (22 percent), while 45 percent say illegal all the time (9 percent) or except in cases of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother (36 percent). Last June, it was 50-46 percent.

      -- Views are more lopsided on Roe v. Wade. By a 61-28 percent margin, voters say the Supreme Court should let it stand. Most Democrats (69 percent) say abortion should be legal and want Roe to stand (76 percent). For Republicans, most (63 percent) think abortion should be illegal, yet they split on Roe, as 44 percent say it should be overturned, while 42 percent say let it stand.



      -- Who won the first presidential debate? Eight in 10 Biden supporters think he won, while 6 in 10 Trump supporters say the president won. Overall, voters think Biden won by a 44-29 percent margin, 11 percent say tie/no one, and 16 percent are unsure.

      Conducted October 3-6, 2020 under the joint direction of Beacon Research (D) and Shaw & Company (R), this Fox News Poll includes interviews with 1,107 randomly chosen registered voters nationwide who spoke with live interviewers on both landlines and cellphones. The survey includes results among 1,012 likely voters. The poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points for both registered and likely voters.
      ________

      National polls show what we already know: A majority of Americans reject Trump. But it wasn't a majority of Americans that put Trump in the White House the last time.
      My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

      Comment


      • Maybe i should have qualified that. We're clear its not long term immunity.

        Short term. About a year. And this is subject to change as we learn more.

        The word 'cure' is not yet sure.

        Immunologists are quite adamant over some things though. They saw the limelight being hogged by the epidemologists and their models which turned out to be bunk. I remember one from Switzerland that insisted that asymptomatic spread was pure fiction. That some one with no symptoms could be a spreader. He reasoned if the person is asymptomatic they've already beaten the virus on their own. Hence cannot spread. But the test cannot distinguish that, dead virus RNA shows up positive.

        If the body beat the virus once, the system has an idea how to beat it again. So any subsequent infection will be milder.

        This depends on the virus not mutating to a point where the immune system gets beaten back.

        How quickly does the virus mutate ? we're still learning.

        I think the countries that only had a partial lockdown will weather it better than those that were strict.

        Either you take the hit upfront or spread it out over time.

        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
        -- Who won the first presidential debate? Eight in 10 Biden supporters think he won, while 6 in 10 Trump supporters say the president won. Overall, voters think Biden won by a 44-29 percent margin, 11 percent say tie/no one, and 16 percent are unsure.

        National polls show what we already know: A majority of Americans reject Trump. But it wasn't a majority of Americans that put Trump in the White House the last time.
        That fewer Trump supporters think he won makes sense.

        Guess i'm in the 11% because i expected Trump to do better at the debate.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Oct 20,, 08:56.

        Comment


        • Ouch!



          Trump wins, CCP will be defeated.

          Biden wins, CCP will defeat the US.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Oct 20,, 08:44.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
            Ouch!



            Trump wins, CCP will be defeated.

            Biden wins, CCP will defeat the US.
            You might want to check your sources on that.

            One thing nobody will ever say about Mike Pence: "There's no flies on him, no siree!"
            Trust me?
            I'm an economist!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DOR View Post

              You might want to check your sources on that.

              One thing nobody will ever say about Mike Pence: "There's no flies on him, no siree!"
              Pence didn't say that. But all know which party will put the pressure on China and which will release it.

              Obama's flip flops here are well known.

              G2 was his idea in 2009, by 2012 he says pivot to Asia and by 2013 he stops the FONOPS which only got resumed after Trump entered office.

              With Obama the FONOPS were loud and few under Trump they were quiet and frequent.

              Trump's been consistent on China since he was a candidate.

              Trump believes in action. The Dems prefer words.
              Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Oct 20,, 18:02.

              Comment


              • Trump has gotten played by the Chinese at every turn. His trade war has hurt Americans much more than the Chinese. Soy beans have cratered here because of the boycotts and the Chinese now buy from Brazil. Smae with pork and poultry. I see these impacts in my county. They are not a theory to me.

                The island fortresses the Chinese have placed around the littoral waters of the South CHina Sea went up under Trump.

                Art Of The Deal my ass.....
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

                  Trump believes in action. The Dems prefer words.
                  No, Trump believes in show and I have 45 years of his history to back me up.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

                    No, Trump believes in show and I have 45 years of his history to back me up.
                    Name any US President that's called China out to the extent he has since Nixon visited China.

                    Comment



                    • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                      Trump has gotten played by the Chinese at every turn. His trade war has hurt Americans much more than the Chinese. Soy beans have cratered here because of the boycotts and the Chinese now buy from Brazil. Smae with pork and poultry. I see these impacts in my county. They are not a theory to me.

                      The island fortresses the Chinese have placed around the littoral waters of the South CHina Sea went up under Trump.

                      Art Of The Deal my ass.....
                      Trump is calling out previous leaders who got played. And its not just US leaders but many around the world.

                      Keep quiet and let the business come in. Until it gets to a point where that policy is no longer tenable.

                      We know the costs in our country because we have a free media. How to tell where its hitting China ?

                      Trade deal is still pending. Trump's hard balling them and they're dragging their feet. He's not backing down.

                      Those island fortresses are just PR, non-tactical and easily disabled with a blockade in a conflict.

                      After 8 years China has failed to dominate the SCS. The FONOPS continue as is with more countries joining in.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

                        Name any US President that's called China out to the extent he has since Nixon visited China.
                        Actually the answer by AR is sufficient.

                        I will add that the Chinese have accelerated their island building and fortifications in the SCS.

                        Comment


                        • Ah, no town hall debate next week as Trump doesn't want to sit behind a computer. I was kind of looking forward to that because he does have a slight resemblance to Max Headroom with the orange skin and hair although Max was funnier.

                          I am also bummed in that I am 6'1", 170 lbs, and with 4.5% body fat and thought I was a good physical specimen.

                          Sooner or later he will have to come off the steroid.

                          US President Donald Trump has refused to take part in a virtual TV debate with his Democratic rival Joe Biden.

                          The commission organising the debate in Miami on 15 October had earlier said it would have to take place remotely.

                          It made the decision after Mr Trump was treated for Covid-19. The president said he would not waste his time on a move designed to "protect" his rival.

                          Mr Biden's campaign said Mr Trump was trying to evade accountability on his "failures on Covid and the eco

                          Both teams later appeared to agree on 22 October as a rescheduled date, although the form of the new debate remained unclear.

                          The first presidential debate on 30 September had descended into insults and interruptions. The vice-presidential debate, held on Wednesday night between Mike Pence and Kamala Harris, was a far more measured affair.

                          The US election will be held on 3 November. Latest opinion polls suggest Mr Biden has a high single digit lead nationally, but the outcome is often decided in battleground states where the races can be much closer.

                          President Trump's comments during a phone-in interview with Fox Business Channel on Thursday touched on a number of key matters, including his health and the possibility of movement towards a stimulus package for the economy.

                          But it was his comments on the debate format that drew most attention.

                          Mr Trump said: "I'm not gonna waste my time on a personal debate. Sit behind a computer, ridiculous. They cut you off... I'm not doing a virtual debate."

                          He also described the moderator of the Miami debate - the political editor of the cable and satellite television network C-SPAN, Steve Scully - as a "never Trumper".

                          Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien, who had also previously tested positive for Covid, said the decision of the commission to "rush to Joe Biden's defence" was "pathetic" and Mr Trump would have posted "multiple negative tests" before the debate.

                          He said the Republican president would hold a rally instead.

                          On his health, Mr Trump said: "I'm back because I'm a perfect physical specimen."

                          He said he had stopped taking most "therapeutics" but was still taking steroids and would be tested for Covid again "soon".

                          But although his doctor has said he now has no symptoms, questions still remain about when the president first became infected and whether he could still be contagious.

                          And although the names of many people who have interacted with the president and tested positive are now known, it remains unclear just how many were exposed at the White House. New Covid safety measures are in place there.

                          One of the top Republicans, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, said on Thursday that he had not been to the White House since 6 August because its approach to handling Covid with social distancing and masks was "different from mine and what I suggested we do in the Senate".

                          Mr Trump said on Thursday that "somebody got in and people got infected" but gave no more details

                          A gathering on 26 September announcing Mr Trump's Supreme Court pick has been seen as a possible "super-spreader" event, with several attendees known to have tested positive.

                          Mr Biden had previously been wary of an on-stage debate event, saying he would attend if medical experts gave the go-ahead.

                          He said after Mr Trump's comments on the virtual debate: "We don't know what the president's going to do. He changes his mind every second."
                          Image copyright Reuters Image caption Joe Biden: "You never know what's going to come out of his mouth"
                          A statement from the campaign's communications director Kate Bedingfield said Mr Biden had been prepared for a virtual debate but "Donald Trump clearly does not want to face questions from the voters".

                          "As a result, Joe Biden will find an appropriate place to take questions from voters directly on October 15th."

                          The 90-minute Miami debate was due to be held at the Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts, with local residents in the audience posing questions to the candidates.

                          There appears to be some consensus now between the campaigns that the debate should be moved to 22 October.

                          The Biden team said the town-hall style debate should go ahead so that voters "have a chance to ask questions of both candidates, directly" as every candidate had done since 1992.

                          The Trump team has agreed to the date, and said it should be face-to-face. It also said the third debate - already scheduled for 22 October in Tennessee - should be moved to 29 October, just five days before polling.

                          The Commission on Presidential Debates said the decision it announced on Thursday to force the candidates to take part "from separate remote locations" had been made "to protect the health and safety of all involved".
                          Image copyright EPA Image caption The White House is still trying to cope with a Covid-19 outbreak

                          What about the economy?

                          The president on Tuesday had said he was breaking off talks with the Democrats on an overarching Covid stimulus package but, after a negative stock market reaction, said he would instead try to agree individual deals.

                          He was more bullish on Thursday, saying he saw "really good" odds of reaching a deal on a range of issues.

                          "We're starting to have some very productive talks," he said.

                          The main areas of progress were on assistance for airlines and a $1,200 (£930) stimulus cheque for workers.

                          Republicans under Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Democrats under House Speaker Nancy Pelosi have been in regular discussions but have differed on the amount they want to spend.

                          In the latest twist on Thursday, Ms Pelosi said there would be no standalone bill for the airlines without a bigger bill.

                          https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54465139

                          Comment


                          • No need for virtual debate. Have another when he feels up to it. There's still time.

                            Some things have to be done face to face

                            Comment


                            • The three countries that helped China the most, US, Taiwan & Japan are all at the receiving end today.

                              How will a Democrat administration under Biden handle China ?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

                                Pence didn't say that. But all know which party will put the pressure on China and which will release it.

                                Obama's flip flops here are well known.

                                G2 was his idea in 2009, by 2012 he says pivot to Asia and by 2013 he stops the FONOPS which only got resumed after Trump entered office.

                                With Obama the FONOPS were loud and few under Trump they were quiet and frequent.

                                Trump's been consistent on China since he was a candidate.

                                Trump believes in action. The Dems prefer words.
                                What was it the Bush (Sr) White House said to Deng Xiaoping after the Tiananmen Massacre?

                                Oh, yeah. Naughty, naughty. We're going to have to criticize you for that. But, our relationship is still very important, so don't take it too badly.
                                (The Democratically controlled Congress imposed sanctions. But, hey, the GOPers are really tough on China, aren't they?)


                                Turning a blind eye to repression in Xinjiang? GOPers in 2002-09, and again more recently.

                                And, while we're here, which party did the Asia pivot, which caused a deterioration in Sino-American relations? Who bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade?
                                Oh, yeah. That's was the Democrats, wasn't it?

                                South China Sea FONOPs, increased under the Obama Administration. But, if you weren't in the area, you might not have noticed all the port calls. The Trumpet suspended FONOPs in the first couple of months of its maladministration, in the enormously simplistic belief that China would instantly force North Korea to the bargaining table. Didn't work, and didn't have a chance in hell of working. So, by Summer 2017, flip became flop.

                                Boy, those Democrats are a push-over for China, huh? I guess the only way to appear to be tough on China is to launch a trade war against your own consumers and companies …

                                Trust me?
                                I'm an economist!

                                Comment

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