The US 2020 Presidential Election

[TopHatter]

Trump says he doesn't know who Proud Boys are after telling them to "stand by"

President Trump told reporters on Wednesday that he doesn't know who the "Proud Boys" are, after saying at the presidential debate last night that the far-right group should "stand back and stand by" in response to a question asking him to condemn white supremacists.

TRUMP: "I don't know who the Proud Boys are, I mean you'll have to give me a definition, because I don't really know who they are"
___________


Trump of course was told exactly who they were just last night:

Chris Wallace:
You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland.

President Donald J. Trump:
Sure, I’m will to do that.

Chris Wallace:
Are you prepared specifically to do it.

President Donald J. Trump:
I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing not from the right wing.

Chris Wallace:
But what are you saying?

President Donald J. Trump:
I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

Chris Wallace:
Well, do it, sir.

Vice President Joe Biden:
Say it, do it say it.

President Donald J. Trump:
What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead who do you want me to condemn.

Chris Wallace:
White supremacist and right-wing militia.

Vice President Joe Biden:
Proud Boys...Proud Boys

President Donald J. Trump:
Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem this is a left wing.


So, Trump is either senile old fool that can't remember jack shit. Or he's racist liar.

Or how about both!

[JRT]

Trump says that polls show that he won the first debate and he would like to continue with more debates with Biden.

[JRT]

Trump says he doesn't know who Proud Boys are after telling them to "stand by"

And here he is telling them to stand by.

And here he is claiming ignorance.

And here is Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell trying to associate himself with Senator Tim Scott and disassociate himself from support of white supremacists without criticizing Trump's remarks.

Senator Tim Scott's comment on the matter.

[tbm3fan]

"I think he misspoke"

Now Sen. Scott knows how to dance and with McConnell they make a lovely couple don't you think?

[TopHatter]

There's simply no defense for what Trump said, but they've got to try. They're just as tied to the cult leader as the cult's rank-and-file.

[JRT]

Bernie Sanders and Jimmy Kimmel discussing the debate, Trump, the election, issues, etc.

[Bigfella]

Sadly, Tim Kaine was ordered to play the pitbull 4 years ago and played into Pence's hands. It was completely unnatural for the man and it showed....I've known Tim for almost 20 years.

If Pence tries to pull the Trump Crap Kamala Harris needs to remind him of Pence's reaction when things went sideways 4 years ago.

Kaine had to be the attack dog because they knew that letting any woman, let alone Hilary, attack like that is a non starter. Women have to play by different rules.

While Pence is an even more detestable human than Trump - at least Donnie commits his rapes in person one by one, not en masse by legislation - he is also more polite. While he is unlikely to be penalized politically for talking over a woman, he won't be able to be as rude or aggressive as Trump. Harris knows that as a woman, and a black one at that, she also has to be on best behaviour. The 'angry black woman' label is literally one or two terse remarks away, so she will try to be assertive without being aggressive.

I'm not sure there will be much substance, but it will be less shouty.

[Albany Rifles]

There's simply no defense for what Trump said, but they've got to try. They're just as tied to the cult leader as the cult's rank-and-file.

I never knew a turtle could make such adept moves....whom I fooling! He looks like the craven coward that he is!

[Albany Rifles]

Kaine had to be the attack dog because they knew that letting any woman, let alone Hilary, attack like that is a non starter. Women have to play by different rules.

While Pence is an even more detestable human than Trump - at least Donnie commits his rapes in person one by one, not en masse by legislation - he is also more polite. While he is unlikely to be penalized politically for talking over a woman, he won't be able to be as rude or aggressive as Trump. Harris knows that as a woman, and a black one at that, she also has to be on best behaviour. The 'angry black woman' label is literally one or two terse remarks away, so she will try to be assertive without being aggressive.

I'm not sure there will be much substance, but it will be less shouty.

Oh absolutely Pete.

I just remember we in Virginia were aghast when we saw him that night....it was not and is not the Time Kaine we know.

You are spot on about the "angry black woman" look....which I always want to ask....WTF is the difference for the gender or race for someone when they are angry?!?!!? They are angry for a reason...figure that out!

[JRT]

Moderator Chris Wallace on the wild presidential debate: 'It was revealing'

Stephen Battaglio - LA Times
September 30, 2020, 7:32 pm

Fox News anchor Chris Wallace was surprised by the ugly contentiousness of the first 2020 debate between President Trump and his opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden, on Tuesday, but he believes the clash still offered viewers plenty of insights about the two candidates.

"Obviously It was not the debate I had planned for, and to that degree I was disappointed," Wallace, 72, said Wednesday in a telephone interview with The Times. "I think debates are about revealing what [the candidates] think. You certainly gained an insight into Donald Trump and what he's thinking and where he wants to take the country and how he wants to take the country there. To that degree I thought it was a success. It may not have been pretty, but it was revealing."

The chaos caused largely by Trump's frequent interruptions led TV pundits and social media to describe the debate as the worst in American history. Wallace weathered criticism over his efforts to control the proceedings, although some analysts said it was a lost cause with Trump at one of the lecterns.

Wallace said he was initially encouraged when Trump and Biden exchanged views on whether to put forward a Supreme Court nominee before the election. He believed the candidates could have a freewheeling exchange instead of "parallel press conferences" that debates can turn into. But that hope was short-lived.

"My initial reaction was, 'This is great. They're going to go at it, and I can take the evening off,'" Wallace said. "But you know, it became clear at a certain point that the president wasn't planning to back off and was going to keep interrupting throughout the evening."

The evening did elicit a moment that could go down as one of the most stunning answers in presidential debate history.

Wallace offered Trump the chance to denounce white supremacist groups — something the president has been under pressure to do since he said in 2017 that there were "good people on both sides" following a neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Va.

Trump did not take that opportunity, and his comment that one right-wing group, the Proud Boys, should "stand back and stand by" was immediately adapted as a rallying cry on social media. Members of the administration tried to rationalize the president's remarks throughout the day.

"I think people will read into that what they want to," Wallace said. "What was clear to me was he was given a direct opportunity several times by both me and by the vice president to call out the Proud Boys and white supremacists and he refused to do so."

Overall, Wallace said Trump's behavior on stage at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland became an obstacle in questioning both candidates.

"While I do think that there was a lot of worthwhile stuff in the debate, I had really prepared for a serious policy discussion," Wallace said. "The interruptions got in the way of a substantive discussion of serious issues and follow-ups to those issues. I thought it wasted a lot of time."

Wallace found Trump's willingness to keep interrupting "curious" after it became apparent that Biden, prone to making gaffes in his public appearances, was not going to be rattled by the strategy.

"Trump never went to Plan B," Wallace said. "He just stayed on Plan A the entire evening, and I don't think it served him especially well."

After the debate, Biden came up to Wallace and whispered in his ear: "I bet you didn't think you were signing up for a boxing match." Trump nodded to Wallace but said nothing to the moderator before exiting the stage.

Wallace was also attacked by Trump on Twitter, accusing the moderator of siding with Biden. The barbs did not come as a surprise.

"Have you been around the last four years?" said Wallace, whose journalism is cited for its evenhandedness among the conservative commentators who drive the large ratings delivered by Fox News.

Wallace, who anchors the weekly Washington roundtable program "Fox News Sunday," said he received accolades from his colleagues at Fox News and its parent, Fox Corp.

Lachlan Murdoch, executive chairman and chief executive of Fox Corp.; Suzanne Scott, chief executive of Fox News Media; and Jay Wallace, president of Fox News Media, gave a Champagne toast to Wallace and his team at the airport before they departed from Cleveland.

"Lachlan Murdoch came from California to Cleveland for the debate, and we had a talk afterwards, and he could not have been more supportive of the job I did," Wallace said.

Wallace's presence as moderator helped give Fox News the largest audience of any network for the debate, with 17.8 million viewers. Around 73 million viewers watched across all of the networks that carried the event, according to Nielsen, a significant drop from the 84 million who watched Trump's first debate with Hillary Clinton in 2016.

The Commission on Presidential Debates also praised Wallace's performance, but announced it will consider changes to the formats in the next two meetings between Trump and Biden, scheduled for Oct. 15 and 22.

“Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues,” the commission said in a statement. “The CPD will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.”

Wallace was skeptical of some of the adjustments he has heard the commission is considering, such as cutting off a candidate's microphone or altering speaking time if an interruption occurs.

"The idea that you're going to cut off their microphone — that's a pretty tough call," Wallace said. "I certainly wouldn't have wanted to make it, so on a practical level I wonder if that's going to work. It just it strikes me as a bridge too far."

.

...

[TopHatter]

Why Can’t He Just Say It?

President Donald Trump refused to clearly condemn white supremacy at last night’s debate. This was no accident.

The question Chris Wallace posed to President Donald Trump was direct.

“Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say they need to stand down?”

The president shrugged his left shoulder. “Sure, I’m willing to do that. But I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.” Trump continued to say words, and to say nothing. “I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.”

Wallace pressed the question. “Well, then, do it, sir.” Former Vice President Joe Biden jumped in. “Say it. Do it. Say it.”

For what seemed like the first time during last night’s debate, Trump paused.

“What do you want to call them?” Trump gestured at Wallace. “Give me a name, give me a name.” White supremacists, Wallace answered. “The Proud Boys,” Biden added, referring to the far-right group of self-described “Western chauvinists” who often engage in armed violence at protests.

“Proud Boys, stand back, and stand by,” Trump said.

America has seen this before. It happened when Trump said there were “some very fine people on both sides” of the white-supremacist march in Charlottesville, Virginia. It happened when he pretended not to know who David Duke is, and that the former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard had endorsed his presidential bid. In moments of direct confrontation, Trump refuses to state clearly that he condemns white supremacy. White nationalists notice, and remember.

Last month, Kellyanne Conway, who recently left her senior position at the White House, told Fox & Friends that Trump benefits when America is turbulent. “The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who’s best on public safety and law and order,” she said. While Trump, Conway, and the rest of Trumpworld blame left-wing activists for the recent unrest, they seem to relish images of a violent America.

The Republican National Committee gave prime-time convention slots to Patricia and Mark McCloskey, the St. Louis couple who have each been charged with a felony for pointing guns at Black Lives Matter protesters who marched past their house. Trump defended Kyle Rittenhouse, who has been charged with homicide for allegedly shooting and killing two people during a protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, saying the 17-year-old may have acted in self-defense. One particularly vivid Trump campaign ad shows hooded protesters carrying black lives matter signs before cutting to Biden kneeling with Black parishioners of an African Methodist Episcopal church in Delaware. “You won’t be safe in Joe Biden’s America,” Vice President Mike Pence warns in a voice-over.

If Trump wants chaos, he may be in luck. On the social-media platform Telegram last night, the Proud Boys posted a Photoshopped version of their logo surrounded by the words stand back and stand by. The group’s leader, Enrique Tarrio, denied that the group supports white supremacy in a post on another platform, called Parler, but said he was “extremely PROUD of my Presidents performance tonight.”

After the debate, the Trump campaign’s Twitter account posted a thread pointing out that Trump said “Sure” when asked whether he would condemn white supremacy. And at several points during his presidency, Trump has explicitly condemned racism. “In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy. These sinister ideologies must be defeated,” Trump said in a speech at the White House after the deadly 2019 shooting at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas. Trump’s most vocal supporters, including a number of his evangelical advisers, claim that the media have pushed a false narrative that the president is racist.

And yet more often, in unscripted moments, Trump equivocates. Perhaps the question comes down to loyalty. Wallace “was asking the president to do something he knows the president doesn’t like to do,” former Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania said on CNN last night, “which is [to] say something bad about people who support him.”
_________

[TopHatter]

Fox News' John Roberts angrily tells off the White House for its refusal to denounce white supremacy

Fox News' John Roberts doesn't think the White House has been clear enough in its condemnation of white supremacy.

After President Trump's deflection of a request to condemn far-right extremist group the Proud Boys in Tuesday night's debate, reporters and lawmakers have been demanding a better answer from the White House. Roberts was among them on Thursday, asking White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany for a statement on the matter and not exactly getting one.

Roberts was clearly not satisfied with this answer. Broadcasting later from the White House, Roberts questioned why Trump and his communications team wouldn't clearly say "'I denounce white supremacy. I've always denounced white supremacy.'"

And Roberts wasn't happy with criticism he received on Twitter for asking it either. "I don't care. Because it's a question that needs to be asked," Roberts said, getting visibly angry. "Stop deflecting. Stop blaming the media. I'm tired of it," he finished.
_____________

Kayleigh McEnany also won't clearly condemn white supremacy groups like the Proud Boys...because clearly she doesn't want to lose her job.

[Double Edge]

Finally got to watch the debate. I'd call it a draw. Points scored on both sides.

People i listen to are calling it Advantage Biden though.

Choosing the hard core conservative over the cuban judge may cost Trump the Hispanic vote.

This also means Trump will lose the support of the suburban Moms apparently because his selected judge isn't in favor or Roe vs. Wade.

This debate won't help the undecided voter.

Next will be the two vices where we will get to hear more about policy.

I expect it will be more revealing.

The only question i have is when will the results be announced. If they're going to allow many more mail in ballots this time.

[TopHatter]

Finally got to watch the debate. I'd call it a draw. Points scored on both sides.

People i listen to are calling it Advantage Biden though.

Most polls are calling it Advantage Biden as well. It wasn't a draw. Not even close. Donald Trump was completely unprepared and his only "points" were "I'm an obnoxious asshole that can't even follow the debate rules that I agreed to"

Next will be the two vices where we will get to hear more about policy.

I expect it will be more revealing.

Trump couldn't talk about policy this time, what makes you think he'll manage it in future debates? For that matter, Trump can't even talk about policy when Sean Hannity is holding his hand.

I'll be extremely surprised if there even is another debate. Trump's refusing to consider any changes because he thinks he "won" the last time.

[Double Edge]

Most polls are calling it Advantage Biden as well. It wasn't a draw. Not even close. Donald Trump was completely unprepared and his only "points" were "I'm an obnoxious asshole that can't even follow the debate rules that I agreed to"

That he was doing on purpose to show Sleepy Joe has dementia and get him to trip up.

I didn't see any dementia and Joe was wide awake.

So Trump will have to try something else next time.

Unprepared i heard as well. The other thing is did he appeal to those beyond his base ? didn't see it.

At the same time Biden comes across like a nice guy but what does he stand for. Didn't come across in this debate.

Trump couldn't talk about policy this time, what makes you think he'll manage it in future debates? For that matter, Trump can't even talk about policy when Sean Hannity is holding his hand.

I'll be extremely surprised if there even is another debate. Trump's refusing to consider any changes because he thinks he "won" the last time.

Because this one was more an appraisal of his record and the challenger had to show what he would do differently.

The next debates will have to explain more clearly what to expect from either in the coming four years.

The one thing that bugs me is Trump's insistence on fraud with mail in votes. It's like he thinks he's going to lose.

Biden however did not show any concern about mail in votes.

Want to see is a higher voter turnout this time. That will happen with the mail in ballots.

Also a clear win, no lawyers, no courts. NO recounts.