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  • Why Can’t He Just Say It?

    President Donald Trump refused to clearly condemn white supremacy at last night’s debate. This was no accident.

    The question Chris Wallace posed to President Donald Trump was direct.

    “Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say they need to stand down?”

    The president shrugged his left shoulder. “Sure, I’m willing to do that. But I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.” Trump continued to say words, and to say nothing. “I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.”

    Wallace pressed the question. “Well, then, do it, sir.” Former Vice President Joe Biden jumped in. “Say it. Do it. Say it.”

    For what seemed like the first time during last night’s debate, Trump paused.

    “What do you want to call them?” Trump gestured at Wallace. “Give me a name, give me a name.” White supremacists, Wallace answered. “The Proud Boys,” Biden added, referring to the far-right group of self-described “Western chauvinists” who often engage in armed violence at protests.

    “Proud Boys, stand back, and stand by,” Trump said.

    America has seen this before. It happened when Trump said there were “some very fine people on both sides” of the white-supremacist march in Charlottesville, Virginia. It happened when he pretended not to know who David Duke is, and that the former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard had endorsed his presidential bid. In moments of direct confrontation, Trump refuses to state clearly that he condemns white supremacy. White nationalists notice, and remember.

    Last month, Kellyanne Conway, who recently left her senior position at the White House, told Fox & Friends that Trump benefits when America is turbulent. “The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who’s best on public safety and law and order,” she said. While Trump, Conway, and the rest of Trumpworld blame left-wing activists for the recent unrest, they seem to relish images of a violent America.

    The Republican National Committee gave prime-time convention slots to Patricia and Mark McCloskey, the St. Louis couple who have each been charged with a felony for pointing guns at Black Lives Matter protesters who marched past their house. Trump defended Kyle Rittenhouse, who has been charged with homicide for allegedly shooting and killing two people during a protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, saying the 17-year-old may have acted in self-defense. One particularly vivid Trump campaign ad shows hooded protesters carrying black lives matter signs before cutting to Biden kneeling with Black parishioners of an African Methodist Episcopal church in Delaware. “You won’t be safe in Joe Biden’s America,” Vice President Mike Pence warns in a voice-over.

    If Trump wants chaos, he may be in luck. On the social-media platform Telegram last night, the Proud Boys posted a Photoshopped version of their logo surrounded by the words stand back and stand by. The group’s leader, Enrique Tarrio, denied that the group supports white supremacy in a post on another platform, called Parler, but said he was “extremely PROUD of my Presidents performance tonight.”

    After the debate, the Trump campaign’s Twitter account posted a thread pointing out that Trump said “Sure” when asked whether he would condemn white supremacy. And at several points during his presidency, Trump has explicitly condemned racism. “In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy. These sinister ideologies must be defeated,” Trump said in a speech at the White House after the deadly 2019 shooting at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas. Trump’s most vocal supporters, including a number of his evangelical advisers, claim that the media have pushed a false narrative that the president is racist.

    And yet more often, in unscripted moments, Trump equivocates. Perhaps the question comes down to loyalty. Wallace “was asking the president to do something he knows the president doesn’t like to do,” former Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania said on CNN last night, “which is [to] say something bad about people who support him.”
    _________

    Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

    Comment


    • Fox News' John Roberts angrily tells off the White House for its refusal to denounce white supremacy

      Fox News' John Roberts doesn't think the White House has been clear enough in its condemnation of white supremacy.

      After President Trump's deflection of a request to condemn far-right extremist group the Proud Boys in Tuesday night's debate, reporters and lawmakers have been demanding a better answer from the White House. Roberts was among them on Thursday, asking White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany for a statement on the matter and not exactly getting one.

      Roberts was clearly not satisfied with this answer. Broadcasting later from the White House, Roberts questioned why Trump and his communications team wouldn't clearly say "'I denounce white supremacy. I've always denounced white supremacy.'"

      And Roberts wasn't happy with criticism he received on Twitter for asking it either. "I don't care. Because it's a question that needs to be asked," Roberts said, getting visibly angry. "Stop deflecting. Stop blaming the media. I'm tired of it," he finished.
      _____________

      Kayleigh McEnany also won't clearly condemn white supremacy groups like the Proud Boys...because clearly she doesn't want to lose her job.
      Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

      Comment


      • Finally got to watch the debate. I'd call it a draw. Points scored on both sides.

        People i listen to are calling it Advantage Biden though.

        Choosing the hard core conservative over the cuban judge may cost Trump the Hispanic vote.

        This also means Trump will lose the support of the suburban Moms apparently because his selected judge isn't in favor or Roe vs. Wade.

        This debate won't help the undecided voter.

        Next will be the two vices where we will get to hear more about policy.

        I expect it will be more revealing.

        The only question i have is when will the results be announced. If they're going to allow many more mail in ballots this time.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Oct 20,, 20:44.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          Finally got to watch the debate. I'd call it a draw. Points scored on both sides.

          People i listen to are calling it Advantage Biden though.
          Most polls are calling it Advantage Biden as well. It wasn't a draw. Not even close. Donald Trump was completely unprepared and his only "points" were "I'm an obnoxious asshole that can't even follow the debate rules that I agreed to"

          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          Next will be the two vices where we will get to hear more about policy.

          I expect it will be more revealing.
          Trump couldn't talk about policy this time, what makes you think he'll manage it in future debates? For that matter, Trump can't even talk about policy when Sean Hannity is holding his hand.

          I'll be extremely surprised if there even is another debate. Trump's refusing to consider any changes because he thinks he "won" the last time.
          Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            Most polls are calling it Advantage Biden as well. It wasn't a draw. Not even close. Donald Trump was completely unprepared and his only "points" were "I'm an obnoxious asshole that can't even follow the debate rules that I agreed to"
            That he was doing on purpose to show Sleepy Joe has dementia and get him to trip up.

            I didn't see any dementia and Joe was wide awake.

            So Trump will have to try something else next time.

            Unprepared i heard as well. The other thing is did he appeal to those beyond his base ? didn't see it.

            At the same time Biden comes across like a nice guy but what does he stand for. Didn't come across in this debate.


            Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
            Trump couldn't talk about policy this time, what makes you think he'll manage it in future debates? For that matter, Trump can't even talk about policy when Sean Hannity is holding his hand.

            I'll be extremely surprised if there even is another debate. Trump's refusing to consider any changes because he thinks he "won" the last time.
            Because this one was more an appraisal of his record and the challenger had to show what he would do differently.

            The next debates will have to explain more clearly what to expect from either in the coming four years.

            The one thing that bugs me is Trump's insistence on fraud with mail in votes. It's like he thinks he's going to lose.

            Biden however did not show any concern about mail in votes.

            Want to see is a higher voter turnout this time. That will happen with the mail in ballots.

            Also a clear win, no lawyers, no courts. NO recounts.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Oct 20,, 21:17.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              At the same time Biden comes across like a nice guy but what does he stand for. Didn't come across in this debate.
              Rather difficult to come across as a "nice guy" when you're being interrupted every time you start to talk, by a lying gas-lighting asshole.

              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              The next debates will have to explain more clearly what to expect from either in the coming four years.
              Again, that would entail Trump being able to do so. He can't. It would also entail Trump shutting the fuck up for 2 straight minutes and letting Biden talk. Trump can't do that either.

              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              The one thing that bugs me is Trump's insistence on fraud with mail in votes. It's like he thinks he's going to lose.
              Yes, odd isn't it. I wonder why he would think such a thing. Fortunately for Trump, the vast majority of polls are showing him way ahead of Biden.

              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              Biden however did not show any concern about mail in votes.
              That's because mail in voting is safe and past history confirms it. It's Trump that's been lying about any dangers involved with it.

              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              Want to see is a higher voter turnout this time. That will happen with the mail in ballots.

              Also a clear win, no lawyers, no courts. NO recounts.
              Well then, you might want to look at which side is engaging in the systematic interference and sabotage of the US Postal Service, voter suppression and voter intimidation.
              Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Rather difficult to come across as a "nice guy" when you're being interrupted every time you start to talk, by a lying gas-lighting asshole.
                Difficult to get your message across but he didn't interrupt as much so nice guy.

                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Again, that would entail Trump being able to do so. He can't. It would also entail Trump shutting the fuck up for 2 straight minutes and letting Biden talk. Trump can't do that either.
                Up to a point it works but that's it. How his side reads the reaction of people to his performance will dictate whether he changes tack.

                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Yes, odd isn't it. I wonder why he would think such a thing. Fortunately for Trump, the vast majority of polls are showing him way ahead of Biden.
                Your link says the opposite.

                That judge is what cost Trump the support.

                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                That's because mail in voting is safe and past history confirms it. It's Trump that's been lying about any dangers involved with it.
                He mentioned a senator's name as example that there were discrepancies. Was listening to another candidate running for senator who lost and he said the same thing as well.

                Thing is the losing candidate always says something was wrong with the process.

                Challenge it in court then, how many will do that ? this is when we get to find out. From Indian elections nobody opts for that step.

                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Well then, you might want to look at which side is engaging in the systematic interference and sabotage of the US Postal Service, voter suppression and voter intimidation.
                If people want to vote then they will. Do you expect an increase in turnout this time ? or lower still because of fear of the virus
                Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Oct 20,, 21:57.

                Comment


                • Texas Governor limits election drop boxes to one per county supposedly to insure a clean election. Some of those counties are pretty big, just like in California, and that would make it a big pain to have to drive to one only. Nonetheless, despite another voting obstacle in the south again, he wants a clean and free election minus the Democrats in Harris County.

                  https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/polit...ots/index.html

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    Difficult to get your message across but he didn't interrupt as much so nice guy.
                    Exactly...so how do you expect him to get his message across when Trump keeps interrupting him?


                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    Up to a point it works but that's it. How his side reads the reaction of people to his performance will dictate whether he changes tack.
                    You clearly haven't been paying attention to Donald Trump for the last 4 years have you.

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    Your link says the opposite.

                    That judge is what cost Trump the support.
                    My posting that link was mostly sarcasm.
                    Trump's approval ratings have been dropping since COVID laid bare what kind of non-leader he is. That was LONG before "the judge".

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    He mentioned a senator's name as example that there were discrepancies. Was listening to another candidate running for senator who lost and he said the same thing as well.
                    NAMES. What are the NAMES. Vague references to "discrepancies" are bullshit.

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    Thing is the losing candidate always says something was wrong with the process.
                    That too is bullshit. Where are you getting this crap?

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    Challenge it in court then, how many will do that ? this is when we get to find out. From Indian elections nobody opts for that step.
                    And there's the answer *facepalm*

                    Why the fuck do I do this?

                    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    If people want to vote then they will. Do you expect an increase in turnout this time ? or lower still because of fear of the virus
                    If people can't vote, they won't. If people are prevented from voted, they won't. That's the whole purpose of sabotaging the Post Office and voter suppression and voter intimidation.

                    I expect an increase in voter turnout, yes. In fact, I'm going to out on a limb and predict a voter turnout percentage greater than even the 57.1% achieved in the 2008 election...possibly as high as 60% or more, something not seen since the 1960's
                    Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                    Comment


                    • He's having a ball. He's not interested in attracting swing voters. Just holding onto his base.

                      That's why he went with that SC judge.

                      He did score against Biden on law & order but Biden gets him back on the mail vote thing.

                      Why so scared of mail votes. If the people are for you then more the merrier



                      I called it a draw because neither side attracted any one just appealed to their base.

                      He has big rallies, the Dems keep it small. They're counting on the mail votes.

                      Those sub-urban moms who went with him last time. Which way will they go this time.

                      Health care, women's rights is what people say Trump has passed on with this judge.

                      But he's big on law & order. Does that balance things out.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        He's having a ball. He's not interested in attracting swing voters. Just holding onto his base.
                        Since Day One, yes.

                        Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        Why so scared of mail votes. If the people are for you then more the merrier
                        Because Trump voters, typically being science-deniers, are more likely to vote in person because COVID is a hoax at best and harmless at worst, according to their cult Leader, whom they will follow straight off a cliff.

                        Science believers on the other hand, are more likely to avoid public places, especially crowded public places, because they get their COVID information from actual scientists, not ex-game show hosts and failed businessmen, and are more likely to vote for Trump.

                        This is of course ignores the older and rural voters, many of whom depend on mail-in ballots, but are also more likely to voter for Trump. This is something that GOP leaders are painfully well aware of, but Trump is not. Of course, nobody ever accused Trump of being intelligent. Cunning like a sexual predator, yes, but not intelligent.

                        Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        I called it a draw because neither side attracted any one just appealed to their base.

                        He has big rallies, the Dems keep it small. They're counting on the mail votes.

                        Those sub-urban moms who went with him last time. Which way will they go this time.

                        Health care, women's rights is what people say Trump has passed on with this judge.

                        But he's big on law & order. Does that balance things out.
                        Interesting view on this but almost entirely wrong.
                        Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                        Comment


                        • Stanley McChrystal, U.S. Army General Fired After Mocking Biden, Endorses Biden

                          Retired Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal on Thursday endorsed Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden.

                          The endorsement came roughly 10 years after then-President Barack Obama fired McChrystal following a Rolling Stone profile of the general in which he mocked Biden and other administration officials.

                          Biden, if elected in November, “would surround himself with an effective team of good people,” McChrystal said during an appearance on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

                          “I think he would set a tone in which he brings out the best of people,” McChrystal continued. “Again, not everybody will agree with every policy ― nobody ever will ― and that’s healthy in a democracy. But we have to believe in our values. You have to believe that your commander-in-chief, at the end of the day, is someone you can trust. And I can trust Joe Biden.”

                          McChrystal led the Joint Special Operations Command in the mid-2000s under President George W. Bush. He served as commander of the International Security Assistance force for just over a year under Obama before being forced to resign in June 2010, a day after Rolling Stone published an article online in which McChrystal and his staff made disparaging comments about Biden and criticized Obama’s leadership.

                          In the Rolling Stone story, McChrystal and his staff expressed frustration with reporter Michael Hastings’ questions about Biden.

                          “Are you asking about Vice President Biden?” McChrystal said with a laugh. “Who’s that?”

                          “Biden?” a top adviser chimed in. “Did you say: Bite Me?”

                          McChrystal apologized soon after the story was published.

                          “I extend my sincerest apology for this profile,” he said in a statement at the time. “It was a mistake reflecting poor judgment and should never have happened. Throughout my career, I have lived by the principles of personal honor and professional integrity. What is reflected in this article falls far short of that standard.”

                          Obama denied firing McChrystal for the remarks, instead saying the general was dismissed because of differences in Afghan war strategy.

                          “I don’t think we can sustain that unity of effort and achieve our objectives in Afghanistan without making this change,” Obama told reporters at the time.

                          McChrystal has made clear that he’s no fan of President Donald Trump. He called Trump dishonest and immoral during a 2018 interview with ABC News.

                          “If we want to be governed by someone we wouldn’t do a business deal with because their background is so shady ― if we’re willing to do that ― then that’s in conflict with who I think we are,” McChrystal said. “And so I think it’s necessary at those times to take a stand.”
                          ___________

                          I lost count, how many ex-flag officers have endorsed Donald Trump? I mean, not that Trump-loving conservatives appear to give a shit about the military these days, but still there's gotta be a few...right?
                          Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                          Comment


                          • Trump condemns 'all White supremacists' after refusing to do so at presidential debate

                            Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump condemned "all White supremacists" Thursday evening after pointedly refusing to do so at Tuesday's presidential debate and in the days since.

                            "I condemn the KKK, I condemn all White supremacists, I condemn the Proud Boys. I don't know much about the Proud Boys, almost nothing, but I condemn that," Trump told Fox News' Sean Hannity, before he again appeared to equate violence by far-left groups with White supremacists, who his own FBI director says are the largest top domestic terror concern.

                            The White House initially showed no signs of backing down from Trump's refusal to condemn White supremacists during Tuesday's debate, despite pleas from some Republican allies to clarify his comments.
                            Earlier Thursday, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany would not give a declarative statement denouncing White supremacists, instead pointing to the President's past comments and insisting that he had not misspoken during the debate or after."The President, specifically, verbatim, was asked (Wednesday): 'White supremacy -- do you denounce them?' To which he responded, 'I have always denounced any form of that,' " McEnany said. "Those are the facts."

                            But McEnany excluded the fact that when Trump was asked if he condemned White supremacists on Tuesday, he had appeared to equate violence by far-left groups with White supremacy.
                            During the debate, the President also told the Proud Boys -- a far-right group the Anti-Defamation League calls misogynistic, Islamophobic, transphobic and anti-immigration -- to "stand back and stand by."
                            "Who would you like me to condemn?" Trump said. Challenger Joe Biden could be heard twice saying, "Proud Boys."

                            "Proud Boys -- stand back and stand by. But I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. Somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem," Trump continued.
                            Although Trump has reluctantly condemned the Ku Klux Klan and White supremacists in the past, he memorably said "both sides" were to blame for racial violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, has frequently downplayed the threat from White supremacists during his term in office and has made stoking racial tensions a key part of his reelection strategy.

                            In contrast, the Trump administration has portrayed antifa and anarchists as a top threat to the US equivalent to that of the KKK, recently making a campaign promise to prosecute both the KKK and antifa as terrorist organizations. In reality, White supremacists will remain the most "persistent and lethal threat" in the United States through 2021, according to Department of Homeland Security draft documents. The most recent draft report predicts an "elevated threat environment at least through" early next year, concluding that some US-based violent extremists have capitalized on increased social and political tensions in 2020.
                            ___________

                            Looks like somebody finally got through that stupid thick skull of his that his open support for racist terrorist groups tends to make at least some Americans uncomfortable.

                            Unfortunately it's a little late, as the Proud Boys now (correctly) view Trump as their general, they've got their orders, and are probably nodding and winking at his "condemnation".

                            Meanwhile, the security agencies of this nation that brief him have almost certainly informed him about the "most "persistent and lethal threat" in the United States through 2021", which would one of the most prominent these days, the Proud Boys, but Donnie Dumbshit doesn't know much about them....

                            Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                            Comment


                            • Trump and his wife test Positive

                              https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/polit...rus/index.html

                              Sorry but I can't feel bad for anyone who decides to ignore the seriousness of this virus. Have always felt that if you want to play with fire then you need to be ready to pay the price if it is called in. I'm sorry but it is poetic justice.

                              Quarantine now and 33 days before the election and he has HPB and is quite overweight. Question is if he has diabetes II which he would never permit release of that piece of information.

                              Next debate Oct. 15th.

                              Next Rally???

                              I will say one more thing and that is this virus is amazing as it just crossed species again.
                              Last edited by tbm3fan; 02 Oct 20,, 07:41.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                                Trump and his wife test Positive

                                https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/polit...rus/index.html


                                I will say one more thing and that is this virus is amazing as it just crossed species again.
                                Karma is a stone-cold bitch.
                                Do not piss Her off.

                                Poetic justice, indeed.
                                Trust me?
                                I'm an economist!

                                Comment

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