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  • Bloomberg extends a form of Democrat outreach by paying their fines and other payments in Florida so that the Felons may be able to vote.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rida-vote.html

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    • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
      Bloomberg extends a form of Democrat outreach by paying their fines and other payments in Florida so that the Felons may be able to vote.
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rida-vote.html
      IOW Bloomberg made sure that felons that had completed their sentence had their voting rights restored just like they would have been in 39 other states. And just like the people in the State of Florida voted for in 2018. It was through the actions of Mini Trump Gov DeathSantis that added restrictions to the peoples vote
      Human Scum. Proud Never Trumper

      Comment


      • Restitution has to be made. Victims need to be made whole, (or at least as much as possible).
        At least Bloomberg is unwittingly making a form of contrition.
        Last edited by surfgun; 23 Sep 20,, 01:51.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
          Restitution has to be made. Victims need to be made whole, (or at least as much as possible).
          How much of that money do you think goes to victims? Do you actually care? Or are you scowling at the thought of 31,100 additional voters in a swing state.

          Originally posted by surfgun View Post
          At least Bloomberg is unwittingly making a form of contrition.
          You misspelled undermining Republican-sponsored voter suppression

          Also, you left out a few donors. It was Bloomberg...

          And John Legend
          And LeBron James
          And Michael Jordan
          And Stephen Spielberg
          And MTV
          And VH1
          And Comedy Central
          And Ben & Jerry's
          And Levi Strauss & Co
          And the Miami Dolphins
          And the Miami Heat
          And the Orlando Magic
          My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

          Comment


          • Monies owed by criminals falls into the following standard categories: Fines, Court Costs, Victim Compensation Funds, Restitution, drug test fees and Supervision Fees. The largest costs in individual cases are either the supervision fees or the restitution that in many cases can climb into the tens of thousands of dollars for medical bills of the victims or to pay the retirees that have been taken by unscrupulous contractors. Not to mention the embezzlers or car thief’s that owe the insurance companies.
            Last edited by surfgun; 23 Sep 20,, 02:48.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
              Monies owed by criminals falls into the following standard categories: Fines, Court Costs, Victim Compensation Funds, Restitution, drug test fees and Supervision Fees. The largest costs in individual cases are either the supervision fees or the restitution that in many cases can climb into the tens of thousands of dollars for medical bills of the victims or to pay the retirees that have been taken by unscrupulous contractors. Not to mention the embezzlers or car thief’s that owe the insurance companies.
              So, 2 out of 6 categories.

              Let's look into this a little deeper. And no, I don't expect you to read this. Or care.

              Criminalizing Poverty Through Fines, Fees, and Costs

              On June 20, 2016, a distinguished panel of experts discussed how fines, fees, and costs in our justice system are criminalizing poverty by burying people unable to pay under ever-growing mountains of debt and imposing on the poor more severe punishments for failure to pay.

              Legal Financial Obligations: What Are They?
              There are many different terms used interchangeably across the country—such as monetary sanctions, legal financial obligations (LFOs), and assessments (e.g., in Illinois)—to describe the different fines, fees, and costs associated with offenses and the courts. For the sake of simplicity, in this article, we will use the term “LFO” whenever possible to refer to such fines, fees, and costs.

              In the program on criminalizing poverty, Dr. Harris identified four systems of justice or “layers of legal debt” in which LFOs are imposed on people: traffic and misdemeanor, juvenile, felony, and federal. Then, within each of these layers of legal debt, there are types or “buckets” of LFOs. Dr. Harris has identified through her research the following buckets of LFOs:

              Fines related to the offense. These fines range from an undefined amount (Delaware) to $500,000 (Kansas). Examples are a discretionary $1,000 drug conviction LFO for a first conviction and $2,000 for a second conviction (Washington).

              Court-imposed user fees for processing. Examples are a mandatory $500 victim penalty assessment per felony (Washington), a $100 fee per felony (Washington), a $100 criminal cost fee (Indiana), a $193 felony docket fee (Kansas), and a $300 jury trial fee (Maine).

              Surcharges for court and non-court-related costs. These are fees on top of the base charges, and they range from 0 to 83 percent. In Arizona, 10 percent of an 83 percent surcharge goes to a clean elections fund even though people with felony convictions paying this surcharge cannot vote; in Delaware, a 50 percent surcharge on fines goes to a transportation fund.

              Collection costs and interest on unpaid balances. These directly create a two-tier system of justice by punishing those who are unable to pay with additional costs such as interest and penalties. Examples are 4.75 percent interest (Florida), 7 percent interest (Georgia), 12 percent interest (Washington), a 15 percent penalty on unpaid balances and a 30 percent collection fee (Illinois), and a 19 percent collection fee for delinquent payments and a $35 fee (Arizona).

              Restitution for victim compensation. Restitution is the money owed to victims by offenders to compensate for the offender’s actions.

              Spotlight on Restitution LFOs
              At the webinar, Nick Allen delved into this last bucket of restitution LFOs and the issues they present.

              Allen explained that, in the state of Washington, as in other states, restitution is an LFO that is part of the actual judgment, and for felony offenses, restitution is mandatory. “The court has no discretion to consider the defendant’s ability to pay when setting restitution,” emphasized Allen.

              Allen recognized restitution as something that needed to be imposed. However, he clearly outlined some of the primary problems with how restitution is currently being used:

              Victim compensation takes years or never happens. A defendant often owes, for example, $3,000 in restitution but can only afford to pay $10 per month. At that rate, the victim cannot be compensated for 25 years. If that amount is increased to $25 per month, then it is 10 years, without accounting for interest or a penalty.

              Where there is no ability to pay, there is no way to complete restitution. If there is no ability to pay, there is no way to get out from under restitution or any other LFO, which leaves the offender bound to the system, forced into more serious debt, and suffering further from collateral consequences in employment, housing, etc.

              There are no options for relief from restitution. In many states, such as Washington, once the judgment is entered, the only relief is making a payment. Restitution is almost impossible to undo and will never expire.

              Laws implementing restitution create barriers. There are laws, as in Washington, that require collection of restitution before any other LFO. In some jurisdictions, this could mean that restitution has to be collected first per case. So, if there are three cases, the victim in the third case will not receive restitution until the first two cases are paid off.

              Annual collection fees are assessed first. Court clerks and superior courts can charge an annual collection fee of $100 per year. This is not considered an LFO, so they collect this fee before paying out on the underlying LFO, including the restitution.

              When it comes to LFOs, we do not seem to have an appreciation for the serious impact that poverty has on a person and his or her ability to meet an LFO. Allen best described it when he shared that “$500 or $600 for someone who has no ability to pay may as well be $1 million.” Multiply that by the various convictions that some people have and you are left with people who, no matter what their intentions or how hard they try to rectify the situation, are sentenced to harsher punishments and an even more devastating poverty from which they can never emerge.

              Allen gave examples of Columbia Legal Services clients to explain how LFOs truly work against people who are unable to pay from the very start. One of the clients had LFOs from three different convictions in the early 2000s. Thefirst LFO was for $1,600 and is now close to $3,500 because of interest. The second LFO was $500 and became $1,319 before it was sent to collections in 2012. Once in collections, a 23 percent interest was added, so that LFO is now over $1,600. The third LFO started as $1,300 plus interest, which the client could also not afford to pay, so it was turned over to collections, where 50 percent was added to the outstanding balance, as allowed by Washington statute. On the third LFO, he owes $3,500 in principal and $3,300 in interest. He got a job, but the collection agency will not accept less than $200 per month, so he still cannot pay. He is in his mid-50s, has children to take care of, and is trying to find other ways to pay. Twenty-five percent of his income is taken out, so he can’t cover basic living expenses. “What started off as $3,400 in principal that he already lacked the ability to pay has now ballooned over $12,000 in LFOs, and there is really no end in sight because of the interest and because they are not going to expire,” Allen points out.
              ________
              My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

              Comment


              • The article fails to mention the concept of jointly and severally restitution with codefendants.
                It does point to the folly of supervision periods with restitution cases where is there is not an ability and or will to make said restitution. Especially, with relatively new roll out of the concept of “Justice Reinvestment Act’s.” Where straight sentences make much sense. In that scenario at least the victim has retribution through the perps incarceration since they were never going to get their restitution in the first place.

                Comment


                • In a conspiracy-fueled attack, Trump warns Harris is being groomed to usurp the presidency


                  WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump has struggled to land an effective attack against his Democratic opponent, Joe Biden, so instead he is increasingly trying to elevate Biden's running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris, offering dire warnings about the potential of her becoming president.

                  In attacks that critics decry as sexist and racist, Trump has sought to convince voters that supporting him is needed to stop Harris, whom he paints as too liberal and as being groomed to usurp the presidency.

                  "They're going to be running him ragged," Trump said at a rally Saturday in Fayetteville, North Carolina.

                  He proceeded to fabricate a White House conversation in which a President Biden was forced to sign documents he didn't understand. Trump mimicked him as saying: "I'm getting tired. I'd like to rest. I'd like to let Kamala take over as president!" drawing boos and jeers at the mention of Harris' name.

                  "That's no way to get into the office, because we're going to have a woman president someday, but you know what? It can't be Kamala," he said.

                  A person in the crowd interrupted to scream: "Never!"

                  Trump repeated her name: "Kamala."

                  Democrats say Trump is going after Harris because he hasn't been able to incite the same antagonism toward Biden, a white man, as he was able to fuel against his 2016 opponent, Hillary Clinton. They also describe his attacks as an attempt to distract from his mismanagement of the coronavirus pandemic. Trump's attacks began before — and continued after — the death of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg threw an already chaotic election year into greater turmoil.

                  Trump's attacks on Biden — including unfounded claims about Biden's health and insinuations that he'd allow rioters to ransack the country — have failed to help him gain ground in the polls, which consistently show Trump trailing.

                  "He's doing it as a combination of trying to make Biden look feeble and doing some race-baiting on Kamala. And neither is going to work," said Stephanie Cutter, a co-founder of the consulting firm Precision Strategies, who was deputy campaign manager for President Barack Obama's 2012 re-election campaign.

                  "He's had a hard time getting anything to really stick to Joe Biden — whether it's 'sleepy Joe' or 'liberal Joe.' Now he's suggesting performance enhancing drugs," Cutter said in an interview. "Nothing is sticking because people have a pretty good sense of Joe Biden and what is at his core."

                  Some Republicans say the attack on Harris won't be enough.

                  "Defining Harris is a luxury. Defining Biden is a necessity," said campaign veteran Matt Gorman, a Republican consultant. "People vote for the presidential nominee, not the vice presidential nominee. The focus needs to be on defining Joe Biden."

                  'The Kamala Harris administration'

                  Asked to respond, the Biden campaign referred to prominent Black Democratic strategist Karen Finney, who alluded to Trump's stoking of false claims that Harris, an American born in Oakland, California, might not be eligible to be president.

                  "It's sadly not surprising Trump is resorting to his bigoted playbook — attempts at racist othering based on the same lies he used to attack President Obama, combined with typical sexist tropes aimed at trying to undermine Sen. Harris' credibility, hard work and numerous qualifications," Finney said.

                  Harris was the first woman and the first Black person to be California attorney general. She is the first Black senator to represent the state, and she would be the first woman — as well as the first Black and Asian American person — to be elected vice president.

                  A Trump surrogate, Jack Kingston, a former member of Congress from Georgia, said highlighting Harris' voting record in the Senate will resonate with swing voters in key states.

                  "This is an extreme liberal," he said, citing her positions on immigration and health care and echoing speculation about how long Biden would serve. "Some people are going to consider it, because it's doubtful that [Biden] could last four years."

                  Harris, 55, is a progressive senator from California who ended her bid for president late last year. She is the daughter of immigrants from Jamaica and India, and her rise represents a paradigm shift as the U.S. becomes a more ethnically diverse and socially liberal country. The pace of change has caused disaffection among some older voters, and Trump has been adept at capitalizing on it politically.

                  In Wisconsin last week, Trump said Harris was "further left than" Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., a self-described democratic socialist, and he claimed that she is "not as smart" as Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., but is "a little bit less vicious."

                  Trump tweeted Monday: "His handlers and the Fake News Media are doing everything possible to get him through the Election. Then he will resign, or whatever, and we are stuck with a super liberal wack job that NOBODY wanted!"

                  A Trump fundraising text message to supporters Wednesday read, "THE KAMALA HARRIS ADMINISTRATION! The secret is out," before asking for donations. It came after Biden mangled his words in a speech and referred to a potential "Harris-Biden administration."

                  Biden led Trump by 51 percent to 43 percent in a NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released Sunday. Harris is seen favorably by 37 percent of voters and unfavorably by 38 percent, the survey found.

                  An NPR/PBS/Marist poll released Thursday found Biden leading Trump by 52 percent to 43 percent among likely voters. Biden also led by double digits among suburban voters and white college graduates, two constituencies that have fueled Republican victories in the past.

                  Stephanie Schriock, the president of EMILY's List, a group that works to elect Democratic women, said she has been expecting Trump to "start using sexist and racist tropes again on Kamala Harris — and here we go."

                  "I don't think he knows any other playbook. It is just who he is," Schriock said. "His base is pretty riled up. He's losing in all of these polls and not gaining any ground because he's had absolutely nothing to say to the rest of the country. ... And this kind of attack is not going to help him do what he would need to do to win."
                  _____________

                  As usual Trump manages to find a new low.
                  My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

                  Comment


                  • Not personally a great Kamala Harris fan; 'feisty' etc may be valuable campaigning/debating talents but hopefully Biden will last one term and the GOP (or some new Party) will return US politics toward a truth based choice. For let us not forget the basic aim of discrediting and defeating Trump is the longer term reform/rehabilitation of a US political Opposition. Only then can US democracy function again properly; when the basics facts are agreed as opposed to insane distortions of Trumpian Peter Pan world.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                      The article fails to mention the concept of jointly and severally restitution with codefendants.
                      It does point to the folly of supervision periods with restitution cases where is there is not an ability and or will to make said restitution. Especially, with relatively new roll out of the concept of “Justice Reinvestment Act’s.” Where straight sentences make much sense. In that scenario at least the victim has retribution through the perps incarceration since they were never going to get their restitution in the first place.
                      I've tried to imagine the mental contortions necessary to even type that sentence out, vis--vis voter suppression through fines. But I guess you've got to go with something.

                      Meanwhile, back in Florida, in 2018 voters approved the law to return voting rights to felons who had completed their sentence (giving retribution to the victim, as you say) only to the Republican-controlled legislature amend the law to require court costs and fees to be paid before they were allowed to vote. The legislature knew that in doing so, many if not most of the people affected would not be able to that and would be right back where they started, effectively nullifying the wishes of the voters.

                      Guess the Republican-controlled Florida legislature didn't particularly care what the citizens of Florida wanted...

                      Now where did I read something along those lines...oh yeah:

                      Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                      As then and now the American People want a Republican Senate to rule in the matters of the Senate. Sorry, if that may leave a bad taste in your mouth?
                      Guess the will of the American people matters....right up until it doesn't.

                      My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

                      Comment


                      • snapper,

                        For let us not forget the basic aim of discrediting and defeating Trump is the longer term reform/rehabilitation of a US political Opposition. Only then can US democracy function again properly; when the basics facts are agreed as opposed to insane distortions of Trumpian Peter Pan world.
                        I fear you are mistaking the symptom for the problem.

                        the reason why Trump crushed his Republican primary competitors in 2016, despite him being a Democrat as recently as 2009, was because he understood far better than his opponents that the GOP as a party fundamentally does not want to hear the truth.

                        following double losses to Obama, Party elders drafted a document outlining the basic reasons why Republicans were so unpopular, and what the GOP could do to reverse unfavorable long-term trends.

                        Trump won because he systematically took the opposite tack to just about every single recommendation, and that proved hugely popular with the GOP base.

                        this remains the case following his election. if anything, it has grown even worse now. John McCain and Mitt Romney went from being leaders of their Party to a veritable swear word inside the GOP.

                        a crushing Trump loss in November will further accentuate this, because the GOP politicians whom are likely going to be defeated are in the swing states -- and they were already the types whom were NOT completely onboard the Trump train to begin with.

                        the remaining deep red GOP politicians and states will almost certainly lean in, hard, on insane conspiracy theories about why their savior Trump went down in defeat.

                        bottom-line: the basic aim of discrediting and defeating Trump is to prevent the complete degradation of democratic principles. while Trump's defeat is a necessary pre-condition to the reform of the GOP, by itself it will certainly not be sufficient.

                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                          Bloomberg extends a form of Democrat outreach by paying their fines and other payments in Florida so that the Felons may be able to vote.
                          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rida-vote.html
                          And that, people, is how to defeat the ugly, unAmerican effort to suppress the vote.
                          Trust me?
                          I'm an economist!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                            Not personally a great Kamala Harris fan; 'feisty' etc may be valuable campaigning/debating talents but hopefully Biden will last one term and the GOP (or some new Party) will return US politics toward a truth based choice. For let us not forget the basic aim of discrediting and defeating Trump is the longer term reform/rehabilitation of a US political Opposition. Only then can US democracy function again properly; when the basics facts are agreed as opposed to insane distortions of Trumpian Peter Pan world.
                            I don't think so as I don't know if there are that many reasonable Republicans left that can reflect with some sense. That being the case they are more likely to go with someone like Tom Cotton, in 2024, who is simply a more polished and less abrasive version of Trump but still Trumpian.

                            Comment


                            • The Trump campaign is reportedly 'discussing contingency plans to bypass election results'

                              President Trump's campaign is discussing "contingency plans" that would involve bypassing the result of November's election, reports The Atlantic.

                              The report delves into possible scenarios if Trump apparently loses the 2020 presidential election but doesn't concede, noting that although we're used to electors being selected based on the popular vote, "nothing in the Constitution says it has to be that way." Citing Republican Party sources, The Atlantic says that Trump's campaign is "discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority."

                              The campaign would reportedly assert that this step was necessary due to claims of supposed voter fraud, which experts have noted is extraordinarily rare, ahead of the "safe harbor" deadline to appoint 538 electors on Dec. 8.

                              "Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly," The Atlantic reports. "The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires."

                              A Trump campaign legal adviser who spoke to The Atlantic said that in this scenario, "the state legislatures will say, 'All right, we've been given this constitutional power. We don't think the results of our own state are accurate, so here's our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state." Lawrence Tabas, chair of the Pennsylvania Republican Party, also told The Atlantic he has discussed the direct appointment of electors with the Trump campaign, saying, "I've mentioned it to them, and I hope they're thinking about it too." The Trump campaign said it is "fighting for a free and fair election."

                              This potential scenario is just one part of the broader piece in which experts warn "conditions are ripe for a constitutional crisis."
                              _____________


                              “Ladies and gentlemen, I want to make a major announcement today. I would like to promise and pledge to all of my voters and supporters, and to all the people of the United States, that I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election.”

                              “If … I … win!”


                              Donald Trump - Delaware, OH - October 20, 2016
                              My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                                The Trump campaign is reportedly 'discussing contingency plans to bypass election results'

                                President Trump's campaign is discussing "contingency plans" that would involve bypassing the result of November's election, reports The Atlantic.

                                The report delves into possible scenarios if Trump apparently loses the 2020 presidential election but doesn't concede, noting that although we're used to electors being selected based on the popular vote, "nothing in the Constitution says it has to be that way." Citing Republican Party sources, The Atlantic says that Trump's campaign is "discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority."

                                The campaign would reportedly assert that this step was necessary due to claims of supposed voter fraud, which experts have noted is extraordinarily rare, ahead of the "safe harbor" deadline to appoint 538 electors on Dec. 8.

                                "Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly," The Atlantic reports. "The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires."

                                A Trump campaign legal adviser who spoke to The Atlantic said that in this scenario, "the state legislatures will say, 'All right, we've been given this constitutional power. We don't think the results of our own state are accurate, so here's our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state." Lawrence Tabas, chair of the Pennsylvania Republican Party, also told The Atlantic he has discussed the direct appointment of electors with the Trump campaign, saying, "I've mentioned it to them, and I hope they're thinking about it too." The Trump campaign said it is "fighting for a free and fair election."

                                This potential scenario is just one part of the broader piece in which experts warn "conditions are ripe for a constitutional crisis."
                                _____________


                                “Ladies and gentlemen, I want to make a major announcement today. I would like to promise and pledge to all of my voters and supporters, and to all the people of the United States, that I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election.”

                                “If … I … win!”


                                Donald Trump - Delaware, OH - October 20, 2016
                                So we have the first American President actually discussing how to seize power, under the disquise of the Constitution, if the results don't satisfy him. A new low for this country and his base will have no problem with it. What did I say about at least 1/3+ of this country willing supporting a you know what as he inches his way there ever so slowly...

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