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The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

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  • Originally posted by DOR View Post
    The Darwin Awad is for people who improve the gene pool by removing themselves from it in the stupidest, most easily avoidable way.
    I know.

    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    Volume has nothing to do with it, just a lack of common sense.
    That's just it. Common sense says most Americans ain't at risk of dying from COVID-19.

    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    For example, building and dying in a jet-powered car, when the awardee hasn’t a clue what happens to auto brakes when they are applied strongly at hundreds of miles an hour, or what happens when said automobile is applied to an immovable object (cliff face) when the brakes melt away.
    Urban myth

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/carmageddon/

    Chimo

    Comment


    • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
      If the Constitution is to be changed one needs a Constitutional Convention with ratification by the States! Not willy nilly shenanigans.
      Per Article V it can also be done by the Congress

      But you are overlooking Judicial Review which was established in the Marshall court in the decisions of Hylton v. US in 1796 and in Marbury v. Madison in 1803. John Marshall, a peer of The Founders, established the primacy of the Courts in review and interpretation of laws and the Constitution in those decisions. At the Constitutional Convention 40 out of 44 delegates voted in favor of judicial review and saw it as part of the separation of powers. There are no recorded instances within the state conventions opposed to judicial review.

      So the concept of only a Constitutional Convention impacting the interpretation of the Constitution is belied by what the founders did and how they acted.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

      Comment


      • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
        That's just it. Common sense says most Americans ain't at risk of dying from COVID-19.
        But that doesn't negate that a majority of the population can't be a carrier of the virus. Public Health is designed to impact this population to protect the most vulnerable.

        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
          Public Health is designed to impact this population to protect the most vulnerable.
          This is where common sense is lacking. Quarrantine the most vulnerable and we would not be in this economic mess. If you're at risk of dying from COVID, you're under house arrest at the very least. Not everyone else. We knew from Chinese numbers that 98% of those infected would be just fine. World wide numbers today says the same thing.

          Everyone was trying to follow the leader, China, when they quarrantine Wuhan.

          I don't blame our actions. It is a learning experience in what not to do. But for Pete sakes, let's learn the lesson.
          Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 15 Sep 20,, 17:48.
          Chimo

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
            This is where common sense is lacking. Quarrantine the most vulnerable and we would not be in this economic mess. If you're at risk of dying from COVID, you're under house arrest at the very least. Not everyone else. We knew from Chinese numbers that 98% of those infected would be just fine. World wide numbers today says the same thing.

            Everyone was trying to follow the leader, China, when they quarrantine Wuhan.

            I don't blame our actions. It is a learning experience in what not to do. But for Pete sakes, let's learn the lesson.
            Colonel, this is NOT what we did in 1918.

            And keep in mind there are large swaths of this country where there was no impact at first but were later impacted because who didn't practice proper public health measure and attended superspreader events (Spring Break, Sturgis, Tulsa rally, weddings, funerals, church gatherings, etc) unmasked are bringing it back to their local populations.

            And not everyone catching and dying are in at risk groups. And death is only a partial outcome. Numerous American college athletes who came down with COVID recovered but have enlarged hearts....their careers are over.Same with several MLB players. What pro-sports have done well? MLS, NBA & NHL who have all been in a bubble and get tested regularly.

            The other thing we are not doing is we are not testing anywhere near enough. And while capacity has been ramped up the issue is because of the screwed up American healthcare system and insurance because the issue has become....who pays for the test.

            https://www.npr.org/2020/09/14/91279...irus-test-mess
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
              Colonel, this is NOT what we did in 1918.
              1918 is N1H1, a completely different virus that frankly is a lot scarier than COVID-19. You catch it at breakfast. You're dead at dinner. Not the current 2 week incubation period. What we learn with COVID-19 is not applicable to any other virus other than the SARS-CORONA family.

              Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
              And not everyone catching and dying are in at risk groups. And death is only a partial outcome. Numerous American college athletes who came down with COVID recovered but have enlarged hearts....their careers are over.Same with several MLB players. What pro-sports have done well? MLS, NBA & NHL who have all been in a bubble and get tested regularly.

              The other thing we are not doing is we are not testing anywhere near enough. And while capacity has been ramped up the issue is because of the screwed up American healthcare system and insurance because the issue has become....who pays for the test.
              There will always be outliers. The Black Plague did not stop Mongol Armies from conquering the world even though more Mongol soldiers died from the Black Plaguie than by the sword.

              But the current point is that 97%+ of all COVID-19 infections recover with zero effects. Yes, there are/will be extremely healthy people who died/will die from COVID-19 but the current evidence is that the vast, vast majority will have zero after effects.

              Again, I do not fault the current reaction but as Dr Faucci said, once the evidence comes in, we should adjust. We have not been adjusting.

              The point is that DOR tried to paint Trump rally participants as Darwin Awards nominees. From the statistical perspective, not by a very long shot.
              Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 15 Sep 20,, 19:39.
              Chimo

              Comment


              • “recover with zero effects” ... says who?
                All COVID-19 recoveries are less than 8-10 months in duration.
                Very significant numbers of cases of long-term hospitalization, and long home recovery, are reported.
                Policy analysts are debating if “pre-existing conditions” will include COVID-19.

                Trust me?
                I'm an economist!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                  “recover with zero effects” ... says who?
                  Says the WHO, Health Canada, the CDC, China,

                  AND the USN.The USS THEODORE ROOSEVELT has returned to sea with a full crew, includinhg those who recovered from COVID-19

                  AND THEY ARE COMBAT EFFECTIVE!

                  You want me to go on?
                  Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 15 Sep 20,, 22:11.
                  Chimo

                  Comment


                  • You know for someone who is supposed to be an expert at numbers, you really can't read the numbers

                    29 million cases world wide, 21 miillion recovered/DISCHARGED!, 931,000 deaths

                    For someone who says he believes the scientists. The science is staring AT YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE! 21 miilion people HAVE BEEN DISCHARGED!!!!!

                    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

                    SO YEAH RECOVERED WITH ZERO EFFECTS!
                    Chimo

                    Comment


                    • So, where did you read that “discharged” means zero effects?
                      ”Discharged” means “better off at home,” or perhaps, “we need the bed for someone else.”
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • moreover, even if you're asymptomatic all the way through, you're likely to infect others.

                        also, we all know the 931K deaths is a massive, massive undercount. a comparison of excess mortality rates shows the US is experiencing about +30% higher mortality rate compared to reported COVID deaths.

                        bottom-line: yeah, COVID-19 ain't 1918 flu deadly...but it's serious, bad enough where it's the third-leading cause of death for Americans already, even after we purposefully put the economy in a coma via lockdowns and people are kinda-sorta wearing masks on a regular basis now.

                        so attending a packed indoor rally is stupid, triply so if you're not wearing a mask.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                          moreover, even if you're asymptomatic all the way through, you're likely to infect others.

                          also, we all know the 931K deaths is a massive, massive undercount. a comparison of excess mortality rates shows the US is experiencing about +30% higher mortality rate compared to reported COVID deaths.

                          bottom-line: yeah, COVID-19 ain't 1918 flu deadly...but it's serious, bad enough where it's the third-leading cause of death for Americans already, even after we purposefully put the economy in a coma via lockdowns and people are kinda-sorta wearing masks on a regular basis now.

                          so attending a packed indoor rally is stupid, triply so if you're not wearing a mask.
                          Its actually an interesting thought experiment if you time travelled this virus back to 1918 and subbed it in for spanish flu.

                          Reality is viruses don't really have an intrinsic mortality rate unless you apply zero medical treatment, the mortality rate is a function of the time in history. While mortality rates of the spanich flu vary widely, 2.5% is often cited. Covid 19 in 1918 actually has a decent chance of reacing those numbers or atleast being in that range. The moratlity rate is far lower because of modern healtcare and the elderly and sick being able to protect themelves better in the 21st century, better information, more care from broader society, social safety nets etc.

                          It is worth noting that spanish flu did kill many people in their 20s and 30s, possibly strong immune responses were counter productive, so the human years lost would still have been far greater than a 1918 covid 19 pandemic.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                            You know for someone who is supposed to be an expert at numbers, you really can't read the numbers

                            29 million cases world wide, 21 miillion recovered/DISCHARGED!, 931,000 deaths

                            For someone who says he believes the scientists. The science is staring AT YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE! 21 miilion people HAVE BEEN DISCHARGED!!!!!

                            https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

                            SO YEAH RECOVERED WITH ZERO EFFECTS!
                            Best to wait to next year before drawing broad conclusions but evidence is buidling for a second "pandemic" of long haulers including some young people who had no problem with the 2 weeks of covid disease initially. Heart and brain symptoms seem front and centre. Obviously people who had severe disease also have lung problems, but evidence seems to suggest milder lung scarring than say SARS. Could be a major burden on health systems in 2021 but right now these people seem to just be lost in the process of events, god help the third world.

                            Comment


                            • Well I just got home from a nursing home in Turlock CA where I spent 4 1/2 hours inside seeing 17 of their residents. Seems 1/3 now have Covid-19 down on their long list of conditions. Conditions almost universally hypertension, diabetes II, dementia, renal failure, copd, and other assorted mental conditions and physical aliments. Went through 1 PPE gown, two masks and 38 pairs of gloves. Outside of one resident trying to punch me, I move fast, things went as well as can be expected. Most nursing homes in California are not letting any ancillaries in but this one did. As for the ones who had Covid-19 it is hard to tell what lasting effects the virus caused given all their other issues and me spending about 15 minutes with each.

                              Comment


                              • The case for voting Trump

                                https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...1f1_story.html

                                I found this article interesting. I usually cant stand most writers who try and justify Trump, it usually means a lot of deflecting, glossing over his glaring problems, blaming the democrats, whataboutism.

                                On the other hand this author acknowledges the some of the serious concerns with Trump, his erratic behavior, his systematic weakening of the Western Alliance and contempt towards America's allies. While I strongly disagree with the conclusions of the article and think that the author does leave out other issues like Trump's incompetence in dealing with the Covid crisis and his deliberate attempt to exacerbate divisions in society, I think the it does address why many right leaning voters might look at Trump as the option that might still cause the lesser damage to the United States inspite of everything.

                                While the Republican Party has been in many ways the more extreme of the two parties over the past decade, it is true that the far left/woke wing of the democrats wields far more power within the party than they did even 4-5 years. Ideas considered fringe as recently as 10 years ago, like universal healthcare, socialism etc are very definitely within the mainstream. I am not sure if the democratic party can remain competitive nationally without the support of the far left.

                                Comment

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