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  • Originally posted by DOR View Post
    I can't seem to find the full-page ads taken out by retired military officers denouncing The Trumpet's comments about veterans and war dead.
    It's almost as bad as the total lack of shame among GOPers.
    Not our style.
    Chimo

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    • Originally posted by DOR View Post
      I can't seem to find the full-page ads taken out by retired military officers denouncing The Trumpet's comments about veterans and war dead.
      It's almost as bad as the total lack of shame among GOPers.
      As the colonel said, not the style of military officers, especially not those in liberal Western democracies.
      My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

        As the colonel said, not the style of military officers, especially not those in liberal Western democracies.
        And no bad thing that. There is value in some retired individuals becoming involved in government, but as a whole I'm happy for retired officers to stay out of politics.
        sigpic

        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

          And no bad thing that. There is value in some retired individuals becoming involved in government, but as a whole I'm happy for retired officers to stay out of politics.
          Exactly gentlemen....we stay out of politics as a rule.

          And I really wish the press would stop referring to Mattis and Kelly as general. They should be called Secretary as those were the highest offices they held.

          I mean until his death Truman referred to Marshall as Secretary as the general had serves as a cabinet secretary twice in Truman's administrations.

          If iy was good enough for Marshall....
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

            Exactly gentlemen....we stay out of politics as a rule.

            And I really wish the press would stop referring to Mattis and Kelly as general. They should be called Secretary as those were the highest offices they held.

            I mean until his death Truman referred to Marshall as Secretary as the general had serves as a cabinet secretary twice in Truman's administrations.

            If iy was good enough for Marshall....
            Maybe Mattis & Kelly would rather forget their last jobs & just be referred to as 'General'. I suspect there are quite a few folk who served in this Administration who will be leaving a few gaps in their resumes. ;)
            sigpic

            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

            Comment


            • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
              Not our style.
              Surely "Not their style"?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by snapper View Post

                Surely "Not their style"?
                What the Colonel meant was that as a recent history tradition in Western democracies that military/naval officers, both active and retired, do not regularly comment on political matters unless there are gross political irregularities.

                It is to avoid any appearance of the military interference in civil government. We do not overstep our civilian masters.

                So, yes, for folks like the Colonel and me it is very much a WE.
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

                Comment


                • A worthy principle. Thankyou.

                  Comment


                  • General Wesley Clark, kinda blew that principle up.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                      General Wesley Clark, kinda blew that principle up.
                      For which he was roundly criticized within military circles.

                      However there is nothing which precludes running for office.

                      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                      Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • BTW, this principle is also a good indication of how -bad- the leadership is in the US.

                        IE Mattis, Kelly et al are all very very familiar with the principles of civilian control of the military, the importance of good civil-military relations, professionalism within the force...

                        yet Mattis said Trump made a mockery of the Constitution and Kelly called his former boss an idiot, knowing full well the costs of actually saying this out loud.

                        under any even close to normal administration, you wouldn't have heard ANYTHING from them.

                        the military -hated- Bill Clinton yet civil-military relations weren't half as bad as they are now.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • ^^^^
                          So much this

                          Clinton presided over the downsizing of the military after the 1980s Reagan porkfest/Bush Desert Storm fame. Everyone loved the military....just look at the movies and TV shows of the 1980s.

                          Then the reality of a post-Cold War world hit. It made no sense to keep pace where we had been. So Clinton was the bad guy.

                          Also the Army Big 5 of the 1980s got they're big money start under Carter but that is overlooked. His RMA pushed many of the high technology weapons used in the 1980s onward. The reason Carter cancelled the B-1 was he had such faith in cruise missiles and stealth....which he went all in on.
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                            Clinton presided over the downsizing of the military after the 1980s Reagan porkfest/Bush Desert Storm fame. Everyone loved the military....just look at the movies and TV shows of the 1980s.

                            Then the reality of a post-Cold War world hit. It made no sense to keep pace where we had been. So Clinton was the bad guy.
                            Funny how everyone loved the military...but now a draft-dodging rich guy like Donald Trump can shit all over the military, repeatedly, from top to bottom, with impunity...and his base barely even shrugs. He's still the Second Coming of the Christ to them.

                            That's what scares me more than anything.
                            My fellow Americans, our long national nightmare is over.

                            Comment


                            • Peacekeeper Trump keeps spreading the Peace.
                              https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54124996

                              Comment


                              • joe,

                                Funny how everyone loved the military...but now a draft-dodging rich guy like Donald Trump can shit all over the military, repeatedly, from top to bottom, with impunity...and his base barely even shrugs. He's still the Second Coming of the Christ to them.

                                That's what scares me more than anything.
                                yeah, I remember when Code Pink did their stupid "General Betray-us" stuff and the right went apoplectic about how the left hates America; now, it's open season on the military brass if the cult leader says so.

                                not "barely even shrugs", they go all in on the crapping.

                                but that's part of being a cult.

                                what really scares me is how Trump has gotten better at manipulating the various powers of the Presidency. the use of ICE/CBP tactical teams, Federal Bureau of Prison riot squads and the DC National Guard helicopters (including one with a Red Cross) on protesters, that's straight up Brownshirt stuff.

                                when this nightmare is over, I want to see prosecutions of EVERYONE involved, from the people who ordered it, to the people carrying it out. "I was just following orders" is no protection.
                                Last edited by astralis; 11 Sep 20,, 19:15.
                                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                                Comment

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