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  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

    But, as mentioned, Biden's lifelong stuttering issue can easily masquerade as symptoms of dementia.
    Clearly something that has to be weighed and considered in the equation.

    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post


    The plain and hard fact is that right now there are 2 men running for president: Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Nothing that you or I can say or do will change that plain and hard fact.

    So wringing our hands over Biden's shortcomings, real or imagined, is utterly pointless now. This is a binary solution set and the least painful choice, by an order of magnitude, is obvious.
    This is true.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
      Tara Reade's accusations are not credible and creepy ain't a crime. Biden has a long history and clearly has something off in his head when it comes to social cues, and he definitely reads like a mental decline in recent years, but there's not really much evidence that he is a Bad Guy.
      I found her believable. I can't say as to credible as what is a reasonable burden for evidence...its an open question. And clearly different for a voter, than a police officer.

      Originally posted by GVChamp View Post

      There is a lot of evidence that Trump is genuinely a Bad Guy, at least by my sensibilities.
      .
      Keep in my mind the spirit of what I said, viewing anyone and anything through the lenses of trump is problematic, with the one obvious, glaring and overwhelming exception Tophatter has underlined, voting day.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post

        No one is getting excited about Biden but he has a great deal more Congressional experience than most of the other candidates and may be able to get a good bit more done. This would have made him a better candidate in, say, 2008 (I would have preferred Hillary to any of the '08 candidates). He probably would have won in 2012 as well and would have slowed down the Democrat's continued decline in Rust Belt states, making 2016 a hell of a lot easier for the Dems than it actually was.

        In 2020, he is an obvious transitional candidate that is there to beat Trump and try to keep the various Democratic factions from knifing each other. Overall the Democrats REALLY lucked out in 2020: they have Biden as a de facto candidate who gives a lot of competitive advantages in a lot of areas, they are running against Trump, and they are running against a pandemic. They clearly do not have a path to long-term leadership: Kamala Harris SUCKS, their Vice-Chair in the Senate is controversial Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi can only remain in power by pledging to surrender power so the Squad has a chance to knife everyone else. While they have a clear demographic advantage, this is not a clear recipe for policy success if everyone in charge is a fucking moron coupled with utter hatred for each other.
        Had the GOP nominated other candidates, they would have been much more competitive in 2020. Though, it'd probably still be Biden running, to be honest, and he still would have had an edge with the pandemic.
        I value this perspective. It gives me insight.

        Biden isn't my politics but that doesnt mean you are wrong. Its a very difficult equation to solve for.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
          , signed on to a commie manifesto written by Bernie bros,
          I am actually not that in tune with american politics. What does this refer to ?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
            Tara Reade's accusations are not credible and creepy ain't a crime. Biden has a long history and clearly has something off in his head when it comes to social cues, and he definitely reads like a mental decline in recent years, but there's not really much evidence that he is a Bad Guy.

            There is a lot of evidence that Trump is genuinely a Bad Guy, at least by my sensibilities.

            No one is getting excited about Biden but he has a great deal more Congressional experience than most of the other candidates and may be able to get a good bit more done. This would have made him a better candidate in, say, 2008 (I would have preferred Hillary to any of the '08 candidates). He probably would have won in 2012 as well and would have slowed down the Democrat's continued decline in Rust Belt states, making 2016 a hell of a lot easier for the Dems than it actually was.

            In 2020, he is an obvious transitional candidate that is there to beat Trump and try to keep the various Democratic factions from knifing each other. Overall the Democrats REALLY lucked out in 2020: they have Biden as a de facto candidate who gives a lot of competitive advantages in a lot of areas, they are running against Trump, and they are running against a pandemic. They clearly do not have a path to long-term leadership: Kamala Harris SUCKS, their Vice-Chair in the Senate is controversial Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi can only remain in power by pledging to surrender power so the Squad has a chance to knife everyone else. While they have a clear demographic advantage, this is not a clear recipe for policy success if everyone in charge is a fucking moron coupled with utter hatred for each other.
            Had the GOP nominated other candidates, they would have been much more competitive in 2020. Though, it'd probably still be Biden running, to be honest, and he still would have had an edge with the pandemic.
            OK, so it's obvious you don't like female politicians.

            But, what about the Democrats who are providing leadership this year? You know who I mean ...
            Harria, Warren, and particularly Pelosi.

            Forget their first names.
            Forget their genders.

            Look at what they've actually done.
            Trust me?
            I'm an economist!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
              First, welcome back.

              I don't give a shit about the Left. Never have. Never will. I will crawl over broken glass to vote a man like Donald Trump out of office.

              What's rather incredible that every last thing that you said about Biden, Trump has cranked up past 11....and you simply don't care.

              Handsyness with women? Complete disregard for the body autonomy of women? Holy fuck dude, how do you ignore this?

              [ATTACH]48934[/ATTACH]
              I did not vote for Trump last time, won't vote for him this time either. You are crawling over broken glass to vote for someone as bad or worse. Biden is old school D to his bones and as much as he might deny it now his record is clear he only missed being a segregationist by virtue of his birth year. So no Trump hasn't cranked it all up past 11. You don't see Trump family members using access to gain billion dollar deals in China, you don't see Trump patronizing the peonage system, bombing forgien countries that had not yet gotten a dose of high explosive freedom from "Merica". TRUMP IS A CREEPY PERVERTED CORRUPT OLD WHITE GUY, BIDEN IS CREEPY PERVERTED, VASTLY MORE CORRUPT AND UNDENIABLY RACIST OLD WHITE GUY. Hell of a choice.... Go Jo!
              Last edited by zraver; 22 Aug 20,, 23:21.

              Comment


              • I may be wrong, but I read GVChamp's assertion about the Dem party leaders as a question about their chops as a national-level politician vs their actual competency.

                ie, HRC was an extremely competent technocrat but just passable as a political candidate.

                it's true that Dem leadership is aging, needs a demographic refresh, and most importantly, needs a true Party leader.

                but that was true in 2004 as well. Obama stood up to address that particular concern quite well.

                I'm not overly concerned with it. leaders can and will rise to the occasion.
                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                  I found her believable. I can't say as to credible as what is a reasonable burden for evidence...its an open question. And clearly different for a voter, than a police officer.
                  Nope, the Left advanced a very clear standard for voters: believe all women. Granted they ditched it as soon as it took out one of their own and another favorite son went to the hooskow for trying to bang kids but that is the standard they advanced.

                  Comment


                  • You don't see Trump family members using access to gain billion dollar deals in China
                    evidence needed for Biden family doing that.

                    for that matter, evidence needed that Biden family did anything like what Ivanka did...like getting her trademarks all approved by China literally the day when Xi visited daddy dearest.

                    bottom-line, Trump is a billionaire with a LONG history of sordid deals and outright corruption. Biden is not. given that he was VP, if he were corrupt he'd certainly have billions in net worth by now. HRC and Bill Clinton easily made $200 million+ in speech fees alone, post-power.

                    I don't mind if you think Trump's policy choices are better than Biden's, misguided as I think that might be.

                    if you think Trump is LESS CORRUPT than Biden, then I'm surprised you're not in WWG1WGA territory.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      Nope, the Left advanced a very clear standard for voters: believe all women. Granted they ditched it as soon as it took out one of their own and another favorite son went to the hooskow for trying to bang kids but that is the standard they advanced.
                      That's not my standard but you are right that many did abandon their me-too principles come biden-reade. And the democratic party did mysteriously lose their voices.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                        That's not my standard but you are right that many did abandon their me-too principles come biden-reade. And the democratic party did mysteriously lose their voices.
                        I kept it, I did not vote for and will not vote for Trump or and for the exact same reasons Biden.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          I kept it, I did not vote for and will not vote for Trump or and for the exact same reasons Biden.
                          I can respect that even though I would align more with Tophatter. I really do think trump is obviously worse in many aspects but I do get some of your perspective. Not seeing how biden is vastly more racist or corrupt then trump.

                          In what way do you see biden aligning with bernie on policy?
                          Last edited by tantalus; 22 Aug 20,, 23:44.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                            I can respect that even though I would align more with Tophatter. I really do think trump is obviously worse in many aspects but I do get some of your perspective. Not seeing how biden is vastly more racist or corrupt then trump.
                            Biden's racism: Voted to restore Lee and Davis citizenship, said he did not want his kids growing up in a racial jungle and sided with the left over segregationists on the bussing issue, said you only see Indians running 7/11's and driving Taxis, said to be black you had to vote for him but if you dared to ask him a hard question you are an obvious crack head and last least but most importantly the 94 crime bill that targeted black men for special treatment by weighing crack more heavily than powder cocaine. The resulting prison population boom recreated old style convict leasing (peonage). Somthing his VP pick defended when she defied the California Supreme Court's order to let non-violent offenders out. In her own words she needed their labor (13th amendment compulsory labor/slavery as punishment for a crime)

                            In what way do you see biden aligning with bernie on policy?
                            He let Bernie's red brigade write his policy paper go read it.... Hell of a B-Day present to Marx on his 200th.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              Biden's racism: Voted to restore Lee and Davis citizenship, said he did not want his kids growing up in a racial jungle and sided with the left over segregationists on the bussing issue, said you only see Indians running 7/11's and driving Taxis, said to be black you had to vote for him but if you dared to ask him a hard question you are an obvious crack head and last least but most importantly the 94 crime bill that targeted black men for special treatment by weighing crack more heavily than powder cocaine. The resulting prison population boom recreated old style convict leasing (peonage). Somthing his VP pick defended when she defied the California Supreme Court's order to let non-violent offenders out. In her own words she needed their labor (13th amendment compulsory labor/slavery as punishment for a crime)

                              .
                              I think there is a more generous interpretation to what biden was trying to say and do regarding the racial jungle comment.

                              https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...n-his-childre/

                              His crime bill was very damaging in practice, not sure bad policy means he is a racist, but the policy did have very very damaging implications for the black community. That said, clearly he has made comments and thoughts that don't match the progress and ideals of 2020, but I prefer to have a sliding scale on judging people. Clearly he has had problems with how to view these things, and may be still prone to bias, as many of us still are unconsciously.

                              To be fair I don't know the context in why crack got heavier treatment than powder.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tantalus View Post
                                I am actually not that in tune with american politics. What does this refer to ?
                                There was once a commercial for Minolta cameras with the tag line "From the Mind of Minolta." They made some amazing advancements in cameras. Now you get to see From the Mind of Z. You may be amazed or maybe not.

                                Comment

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