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The US 2020 Presidential Election

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by DOR View Post

    Did you make up that thing about Biden's stutter being age-related, or was that something you got from Moscow?
    I'm not the one talking about stutter. That he's fumbling his words is being made out to look age related.

    That is the point of that video. I didn't see any of this during the debates. Didn't trip even once.

    It does make me wonder about his choice for candidate. Was Biden really the best the Dems had ?

    Moscow ? where did that come from
    Last edited by Double Edge; 31 Oct 20,, 20:15.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    If Joe Biden loses, blame the Democrats, not third-party voters or non-voters

    There are good reasons to vote for Joe Biden, as I recently argued, even for progressives who may not be impressed by the former vice president's policies or past positions.

    However, reasonable people can also argue that Biden has no real intention to follow through on some of his more ambitious proposals that are designed to try and win over the left-wing of the Democratic party that was unenthused by his nomination. These people can also believe that "orange man bad" isn't a compelling enough reason for them to cast their vote for someone they don't believe in.

    As we get closer to the election, the stakes are becoming clearer. Get-out-the-vote efforts like LeBron James' "More Than A Vote" program are on the rise. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Rep. Ilhan Omar teamed up with popular Twitch streamers to drive voter registration efforts, and political nonprofits like MoveOn have been big on promoting voter registration. The idea is that the better the voter turnout, the more likely it is that Biden wins.

    This has resulted in the sentiment that people who lean left but vote for third-party candidates or those that choose not to vote at all, are effectively voting for Trump, and should bear the blame should Biden lose on Tuesday. It's a reasonable notion, but it is misguided.

    Blame game
    The shaming and blaming of third-party or non-voters would come as no surprise given that many liberals view votes cast for third-party candidates as instrumental to George Bush and Donald Trump's elections.

    The 2000 presidential election between Bush and Al Gore came down to Florida, which Bush won by a measly 537 votes. The third party candidate, Ralph Nader, received over 97,000 votes in the state, helping to cement a disdain for third parties among Democrats. If a fraction of Ralph Nader voters voted for Gore instead, the thinking goes that we could have avoided eight years of globally catastrophic policy. Similar thinking exists among conservatives who were angry at the splitting of votes by independent Ross Perot in 1992.

    However, if Joe Biden loses, there will be plenty of more applicable people for the Democratic establishment to blame. Namely, themselves.

    Since Biden clinched the Democratic nomination, he, his campaign, and the Democratic establishment, have been callously deriding the party's left, erasing them from the national conversation.

    Besides AOC's dutiful nomination of Bernie Sanders during the Democratic National Convention, progressive politics were left by the curbside. Instead, Democrats featured a speech by John Kasich, the guy who, as governor of Ohio, passed some of the strictest anti-abortion legislation in the nation.

    The choice made it clear that Democrats would rather use their biggest stage to champion someone whose views go against their own than champion progressives. This is a clear effort to win over voters from the right, and it shows that these voters are being prioritized over the progressive ones in their own party.

    According to Politico, the Biden campaign is currently vetting Republican figures (including, again, John Kasich) for potential cabinet positions. The Biden camp knows that considering a Republican for a cabinet position risks turning off some of the more progressive or left-leaning members of the electorate, but they believe it's worth that risk.

    Given all of these facts, if Biden loses on Tuesday, it doesn't make sense to blame the loss on people — particularly progressives — who were discouraged from voting for him because of his actions and the actions of the Democratic Party in general. You cannot discard a group of voters before the election and then blame them for not voting for you afterwards. The Democrats can either appeal to Republicans or chastise the progressive electorate for considering other options, but they can't do both in good faith.

    Progressive names for cabinet positions have floated around, too. Imagine a Treasury Secretary Elizabeth Warren or the most recent speculation of a Labor Secretary Bernie Sanders. Democrats would risk losing a senate seat for either of these to come to fruition, but it'd be an easy way for the disgruntled progressive voter to come on board before election day. A simple promise that Biden would include progressive voices in his cabinet would do the trick. Instead, we have Republican John Kasich at the top of the list.

    Even former President Barack Obama has chimed in with his own version of blaming non-voters. In a speech on October 27, he said that voters "...can't be complacent. We were complacent last time. Folks got a little lazy. Folks took things for granted. And look what happened."

    Let's take a closer look at why those voters might have gotten "a little lazy."

    The electorate's burden
    In 2016, 43% of eligible voters did not cast a ballot, nearly 100 million people. Many of them, according to FiveThirtyEight, are disillusioned from voting, and don't feel like either party's candidate can enact meaningful change. Democrats, instead of convincing these people that they're the better option over Republicans, would rather target people who already vote, even if they're Republicans or moderates. In a crunch, the strategy makes sense, but there's a difference between blaming non-voters who aren't going to vote anyway, and blaming non-voters who actively tried to participate, but were let down by their party.

    It's true that third party voters could have saved us from Bush and Trump, but at the end of the day, their votes weren't earned by either major party. That is a failure of campaigning, not a failure of the people who decided to vote for the party that best matched their interests — or that no party accurately reflected their interests. They are participating in our civic institutions just like any voter, and it feels misguided to shame them for the way they did so.

    Think about it this way: in the two hugely consequential elections of 2000 and 2016, the third party vote was instrumental in deciding the victor, as well as, obviously, the tens of millions of people who didn't vote. That means that it is in the Democrats' best interest to target people who vote third party and who don't vote. If they fail to do that, why is that the electorate's fault?

    Before you become upset at how someone decided to express their rights, ask yourself how your party could have better appealed to them. As I mentioned above, it's usually a pretty drastic oversight.
    _____________



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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

    I really don't know why you blokes bother. Your heads aren't going to make the wall any softer, and it isn't like there are a bunch of US politics noobs around here who will learn something from the constant corrections. I grant you there is a level of stress involved in not screaming abuse at the constant stream of moronic drivel, but it is still better than feeding the troll. Every response you blokes give is another excuse for his mindless bloviating. You are making it worse. Put down the shovel and stop digging. You will feel SO much better.
    You're right on all counts. As I told DOR, it's time.

    Leave a comment:


  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by DOR View Post

    Nope.
    Not gonna feed any more trolls.
    Yeah, you're right, it's time.

    Leave a comment:


  • DOR
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

    Somebody else want to take this one?
    Nope.
    Not gonna feed any more trolls.

    Leave a comment:


  • DOR
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

    Let me help you out

    The stutter thing is only a thing because of his age.

    I note they were very quick to jump to his defence.

    Too bad they never do that with Trump.
    Did you make up that thing about Biden's stutter being age-related, or was that something you got from Moscow?

    Leave a comment:


  • surfgun
    replied
    A Biden win could mean no more Nuclear Triad.
    https://news.usni.org/2020/10/30/has...posture-review

    Would Biden go after the Columbia Class, B-21 or next generation ICBM?
    If he were to kill, Columbia it would in turn kill the Dreadnought Class. The leftists in the UK would love this.
    Last edited by surfgun; 31 Oct 20,, 19:52.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

    Yet another post of mindless drivel. The really pathetic thing here is that you have convinced yourself that your ill informed, rambling brain farts actually have some higher purpose.
    hehe, yeah when we don't play to your tune its ill informed rambling.

    What exactly is your contribution in this section other than back handed comments ? you are nothing more than a cheer leader of the opposition. Which will hopefully remain that way for another term.

    I've quoted three sources that plug in me into the ruling camp's thinking.

    Something i've repeatedly mentioned i do not get here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    Plaintive.

    My point in case you missed it is Rolling stone is not a reliable source about anything Trump.

    Are they going to inform you ? no, just add FUD which every opposition source does.

    THAT is what i'm calling out.

    The NYC primary is an example of what we can look forward to. Contesting those mail in votes.

    IF there is no clear winner.

    Biden wins, nothing happens.

    Trump wins, i don't know what will happen.

    Why do I sense there is this implicit threat of violence should that be the case.


    Yet another post of mindless drivel. The really pathetic thing here is that you have convinced yourself that your ill informed, rambling brain farts actually have some higher purpose.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Since we were talking about the man, here's what he said the other day

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Trump recovery.jpg Views:	0 Size:	52.6 KB ID:	1567536

    2.3M followers for a guy whose heyday was back in the 90s.

    He's still getting traction.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 31 Oct 20,, 10:12.

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post

    I really don't know why you blokes bother. Your heads aren't going to make the wall any softer, and it isn't like there are a bunch of US politics noobs around here who will learn something from the constant corrections. I grant you there is a level of stress involved in not screaming abuse at the constant stream of moronic drivel, but it is still better than feeding the troll. Every response you blokes give is another excuse for his mindless bloviating. You are making it worse. Put down the shovel and stop digging. You will feel SO much better.
    Plaintive.

    My point in case you missed it is Rolling stone is not a reliable source about anything Trump.

    Are they going to inform you ? no, just add FUD which every opposition source does.

    THAT is what i'm calling out.

    The NYC primary is an example of what we can look forward to. Contesting those mail in votes.

    IF there is no clear winner.

    Biden wins, nothing happens.

    Trump wins, i don't know what will happen.

    Why do I sense there is this implicit threat of violence should that be the case.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 31 Oct 20,, 09:11.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

    Wrong, you have to be there consequently you have no first hand experience and I even question your source.
    Yes i can, all i have to do is pit you against your own. I know which echo chamber to hang out in.

    My source does not get to reply back here. And had there been more right wingers in here you'd get questioned back.

    I'm doing my bit getting the govt's supporters line out.

    I intend to do that until you have a change of administration.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 31 Oct 20,, 08:52.

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  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

    I don't need to be there the guy i quoted was. You disagree and can't offer more than that.
    Wrong, you have to be there consequently you have no first hand experience and I even question your source.

    Please note that I will not play games with your bullsh!t

    Adios, muchacho...

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

    Somebody else want to take this one?
    I really don't know why you blokes bother. Your heads aren't going to make the wall any softer, and it isn't like there are a bunch of US politics noobs around here who will learn something from the constant corrections. I grant you there is a level of stress involved in not screaming abuse at the constant stream of moronic drivel, but it is still better than feeding the troll. Every response you blokes give is another excuse for his mindless bloviating. You are making it worse. Put down the shovel and stop digging. You will feel SO much better.

    I will leave the last word to one of my favourite bands. The fat bloke on guitar (Mad Macca) has a law degree & the big bloke on bass is a world champion senior weightlifter and owns a very nice tractor. You would get more sense on this topic from both (the lyrics of the second song are particularly apposite):

    Lost Cause



    F***wit City



    ....and since I'm on a roll, this song offers an alternative to banging your head against a wall - Nice Day to go to the Pub. I highly recommend it. (I was in the crowd when this was filmed, but fortunately for you lot too far back for the cameras to spot me ;) ).

    Last edited by Bigfella; 31 Oct 20,, 08:59.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

    You not notice how the left turns things around ?

    You don't have a rightwing problem as I see it. You have a leftie problem.

    The threats of violence are coming from the left. That is why the silent majority exists.

    Whether online or real life.

    It wasn't neo nazis tearing into things after Floyd.

    When Trump calls out Antifa and its ilk for what it is he's right.

    The fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists.
    Somebody else want to take this one?

    Leave a comment:

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