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The US 2020 Presidential Election

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  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    The three countries that helped China the most, US, Taiwan & Japan are all at the receiving end today.

    How will a Democrat administration under Biden handle China ?
    No takers ? Nobody has a clue ?

    That's the point isn't it.

    With Trump we know what to expect, warts and all.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Oct 20,, 15:30.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    Originally posted by DOR View Post

    What was it the Bush (Sr) White House said to Deng Xiaoping after the Tiananmen Massacre?

    Oh, yeah. Naughty, naughty. We're going to have to criticize you for that. But, our relationship is still very important, so don't take it too badly.
    (The Democratically controlled Congress imposed sanctions. But, hey, the GOPers are really tough on China, aren't they?)
    what did he say ?

    The Democrats were more vocal after Tianamen but does not count as they were in the opposition.

    The one lasting legacy of Tianamen is the west stopped arms deals with China. Don't know if HW was responsible for that.

    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    Turning a blind eye to repression in Xinjiang? GOPers in 2002-09, and again more recently.
    What was going on in Xinajiang in 2002-09 ? saw a CGTN program where they were talking about terrorists. It was like a tenth of what we see in J&K. Bush would not be saying anything about it then. Unlike Clinton that did his best to interfere in J&K in his first term.

    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    And, while we're here, which party did the Asia pivot, which caused a deterioration in Sino-American relations? Who bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade?
    Oh, yeah. That's was the Democrats, wasn't it?
    Pivot was fine but how credible was it ?

    Bombing the embassy in Belgrade i understood to be a mistake. Chinese didn't believe that though.

    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    South China Sea FONOPs, increased under the Obama Administration. But, if you weren't in the area, you might not have noticed all the port calls.
    Drone strikes went up with Obama not FONOPS which he suspended in 2013. This i learnt only a few years later to my surprise. Linked it here couple years back. See the transcript with Dean Cheng.

    How does pivot to Asia not include any FONOPS ? Obama cut a deal with 11 Jing Ping for cooperation with Climate change (!)

    Did not help that China reneged and went on to militarise those islands. Hence the resumption of FONOPS under Trump.


    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    The Trumpet suspended FONOPs in the first couple of months of its maladministration, in the enormously simplistic belief that China would instantly force North Korea to the bargaining table. Didn't work, and didn't have a chance in hell of working. So, by Summer 2017, flip became flop.
    Trump went further than any other president in trying to cut a deal with Kim. Who can fault him for this ?

    I was not going to second guess the attempt. All of this happened because of Moon. A strong willingness in the south for a settlement.


    It was for Kim to deliver on his end and clearly that did not happen hence Trump walked out of the second meeting in Vietnam.

    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    Boy, those Democrats are a push-over for China, huh? I guess the only way to appear to be tough on China is to launch a trade war against your own consumers and companies …

    When the US buys 3-4x times more from China than the other way around it stands to reason they would be affected more than the US. Don't need to be an economist to realise that.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	pence censored.jpg Views:	0 Size:	61.7 KB ID:	1566687

    Speaks volumes isn't it. We know who China prefers.

    Click the graphic above to go to the tweet.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Oct 20,, 14:15.

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  • Bigfella
    replied
    Originally posted by InExile View Post
    Why should Biden take any risk now that he is comfortably ahead. He should just say that he is willing to debate Trump virtually, and Trump can decide if he wants to or not
    Isn't that just what happened? Apparently Biden is going to hold a televised 'town hall' anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • InExile
    replied
    Joe Biden is refusing to answer if he will pack the court

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/polit...ing/index.html

    I think Biden is walking a tight line here. Most Democrats, even centrist ones probably wouldn't care since they are rightly angry at the hypocrisy on the part of the Republicans to push a candidate while denying a hearing for Garland for 11 months prior to the last election. On the other hand you can expect the right wing media to pound away at his every day until the election, which might cost Biden perhaps the 1-2 percent of former Republican, or Independent center right voters who seem to have been drifting towards him the past few weeks.

    On the other hand explicitly coming out and saying he wont pack the court will probably cost Biden more due to demoralization on the left wing of the Democratic party.

    Although, I am pretty sure a Biden administration will not pack the Supreme Court, the political cost will be too high and there probably will be no other meaningful legislation the Democrats would be able to pass after that.

    Leave a comment:


  • InExile
    replied
    Why should Biden take any risk now that he is comfortably ahead. He should just say that he is willing to debate Trump virtually, and Trump can decide if he wants to or not

    Leave a comment:


  • DOR
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    No need for virtual debate. Have another when he feels up to it. There's still time.

    Some things have to be done face to face
    Yeah, like infections.

    Leave a comment:


  • DOR
    replied
    Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

    Pence didn't say that. But all know which party will put the pressure on China and which will release it.

    Obama's flip flops here are well known.

    G2 was his idea in 2009, by 2012 he says pivot to Asia and by 2013 he stops the FONOPS which only got resumed after Trump entered office.

    With Obama the FONOPS were loud and few under Trump they were quiet and frequent.

    Trump's been consistent on China since he was a candidate.

    Trump believes in action. The Dems prefer words.
    What was it the Bush (Sr) White House said to Deng Xiaoping after the Tiananmen Massacre?

    Oh, yeah. Naughty, naughty. We're going to have to criticize you for that. But, our relationship is still very important, so don't take it too badly.
    (The Democratically controlled Congress imposed sanctions. But, hey, the GOPers are really tough on China, aren't they?)


    Turning a blind eye to repression in Xinjiang? GOPers in 2002-09, and again more recently.

    And, while we're here, which party did the Asia pivot, which caused a deterioration in Sino-American relations? Who bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade?
    Oh, yeah. That's was the Democrats, wasn't it?

    South China Sea FONOPs, increased under the Obama Administration. But, if you weren't in the area, you might not have noticed all the port calls. The Trumpet suspended FONOPs in the first couple of months of its maladministration, in the enormously simplistic belief that China would instantly force North Korea to the bargaining table. Didn't work, and didn't have a chance in hell of working. So, by Summer 2017, flip became flop.

    Boy, those Democrats are a push-over for China, huh? I guess the only way to appear to be tough on China is to launch a trade war against your own consumers and companies …

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    The three countries that helped China the most, US, Taiwan & Japan are all at the receiving end today.

    How will a Democrat administration under Biden handle China ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Double Edge
    replied
    No need for virtual debate. Have another when he feels up to it. There's still time.

    Some things have to be done face to face

    Leave a comment:


  • tbm3fan
    replied
    Ah, no town hall debate next week as Trump doesn't want to sit behind a computer. I was kind of looking forward to that because he does have a slight resemblance to Max Headroom with the orange skin and hair although Max was funnier.

    I am also bummed in that I am 6'1", 170 lbs, and with 4.5% body fat and thought I was a good physical specimen.

    Sooner or later he will have to come off the steroid.

    US President Donald Trump has refused to take part in a virtual TV debate with his Democratic rival Joe Biden.

    The commission organising the debate in Miami on 15 October had earlier said it would have to take place remotely.

    It made the decision after Mr Trump was treated for Covid-19. The president said he would not waste his time on a move designed to "protect" his rival.

    Mr Biden's campaign said Mr Trump was trying to evade accountability on his "failures on Covid and the eco

    Both teams later appeared to agree on 22 October as a rescheduled date, although the form of the new debate remained unclear.

    The first presidential debate on 30 September had descended into insults and interruptions. The vice-presidential debate, held on Wednesday night between Mike Pence and Kamala Harris, was a far more measured affair.

    The US election will be held on 3 November. Latest opinion polls suggest Mr Biden has a high single digit lead nationally, but the outcome is often decided in battleground states where the races can be much closer.

    President Trump's comments during a phone-in interview with Fox Business Channel on Thursday touched on a number of key matters, including his health and the possibility of movement towards a stimulus package for the economy.

    But it was his comments on the debate format that drew most attention.

    Mr Trump said: "I'm not gonna waste my time on a personal debate. Sit behind a computer, ridiculous. They cut you off... I'm not doing a virtual debate."

    He also described the moderator of the Miami debate - the political editor of the cable and satellite television network C-SPAN, Steve Scully - as a "never Trumper".

    Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien, who had also previously tested positive for Covid, said the decision of the commission to "rush to Joe Biden's defence" was "pathetic" and Mr Trump would have posted "multiple negative tests" before the debate.

    He said the Republican president would hold a rally instead.

    On his health, Mr Trump said: "I'm back because I'm a perfect physical specimen."

    He said he had stopped taking most "therapeutics" but was still taking steroids and would be tested for Covid again "soon".

    But although his doctor has said he now has no symptoms, questions still remain about when the president first became infected and whether he could still be contagious.

    And although the names of many people who have interacted with the president and tested positive are now known, it remains unclear just how many were exposed at the White House. New Covid safety measures are in place there.

    One of the top Republicans, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell, said on Thursday that he had not been to the White House since 6 August because its approach to handling Covid with social distancing and masks was "different from mine and what I suggested we do in the Senate".

    Mr Trump said on Thursday that "somebody got in and people got infected" but gave no more details

    A gathering on 26 September announcing Mr Trump's Supreme Court pick has been seen as a possible "super-spreader" event, with several attendees known to have tested positive.

    Mr Biden had previously been wary of an on-stage debate event, saying he would attend if medical experts gave the go-ahead.

    He said after Mr Trump's comments on the virtual debate: "We don't know what the president's going to do. He changes his mind every second."
    Image copyright Reuters Image caption Joe Biden: "You never know what's going to come out of his mouth"
    A statement from the campaign's communications director Kate Bedingfield said Mr Biden had been prepared for a virtual debate but "Donald Trump clearly does not want to face questions from the voters".

    "As a result, Joe Biden will find an appropriate place to take questions from voters directly on October 15th."

    The 90-minute Miami debate was due to be held at the Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts, with local residents in the audience posing questions to the candidates.

    There appears to be some consensus now between the campaigns that the debate should be moved to 22 October.

    The Biden team said the town-hall style debate should go ahead so that voters "have a chance to ask questions of both candidates, directly" as every candidate had done since 1992.

    The Trump team has agreed to the date, and said it should be face-to-face. It also said the third debate - already scheduled for 22 October in Tennessee - should be moved to 29 October, just five days before polling.

    The Commission on Presidential Debates said the decision it announced on Thursday to force the candidates to take part "from separate remote locations" had been made "to protect the health and safety of all involved".
    Image copyright EPA Image caption The White House is still trying to cope with a Covid-19 outbreak

    What about the economy?

    The president on Tuesday had said he was breaking off talks with the Democrats on an overarching Covid stimulus package but, after a negative stock market reaction, said he would instead try to agree individual deals.

    He was more bullish on Thursday, saying he saw "really good" odds of reaching a deal on a range of issues.

    "We're starting to have some very productive talks," he said.

    The main areas of progress were on assistance for airlines and a $1,200 (930) stimulus cheque for workers.

    Republicans under Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Democrats under House Speaker Nancy Pelosi have been in regular discussions but have differed on the amount they want to spend.

    In the latest twist on Thursday, Ms Pelosi said there would be no standalone bill for the airlines without a bigger bill.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54465139

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