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The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

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  • Firestorm
    replied
    [/New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, one of the most visible liberals in the party, immediately pushed back on the notion that liberals hurt swing district Democrats in 2020.
    "You can't just tell the Black, Brown, & youth organizers riding in to save us every election to be quiet or not have their reps champion them when they need us," she tweeted. "Or wonder why they don't show up for midterms when they're scolded for existing. Esp when they're delivering victories."
    Added AOC: "And btw I'm happy to cede ground on things that aren't working in some areas! But finger pointing is not gonna help. There's real workable & productive paths here if the party is open to us."
    I find AOC's response quite interesting. What Spanberger was saying had nothing to do with race. Whether she is right or wrong can be debated but using the "If you disagree with me you must be racist!" argument against her own party colleague only betrays AOC's own intellectual bankruptcy.
    Last edited by Firestorm; 06 Nov 20,, 22:53.

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  • Firestorm
    replied
    This Democratic congresswoman just spoke some hard truth to her party

    (CNN)On a call with her colleagues Thursday -- less than 48 hours after House Democrats failed to gain the seats that their leaders and political prognosticators predicted they would -- Virginia Rep. Abigail Spanberger (D) stopped being polite, and started being real.

    "If we are classifying Tuesday as a success from a congressional standpoint, we will get [expletive] torn apart in 2022," Spanberger said bluntly. "That's the reality."
    She went on to highlight two main reasons for Democrats " los[ing] members who shouldn't have lost":
    1) The pervasiveness of the "defund the police" messageAs Spanberger put it:
    "The number one concern in things that people brought to me in my [district] that I barely re-won, was defunding the police. And I've heard from colleagues who have said 'Oh, it's the language of the streets. We should respect that.' We're in Congress. We are professionals. We are supposed to talk about things in the way where we mean what we're talking about. If we don't mean we should defund the police, we shouldn't say that."

    2) The talk of socialism
    Again, Spanberger:
    "We want to talk about funding social services, and ensuring good engagement in community policing, let's talk about what we are for. And we need to not ever use the words 'socialist' or 'socialism' ever again. Because while people think it doesn't matter, it does matter. And we lost good members because of it."
    Spanberger knows of what she speaks. She represents a central Virginia seat that went for President Donald Trump by 6 points in 2016 -- and where she appears to have barely eked out a victory by less than 5,000 votes on Tuesday. Her race, like that of many House Democrats representing suburban areas -- Spanberger's seat includes the western suburbs of Richmond -- was far closer than most pre-election predictions suggested. The Cook Political Report, for example, rated Spanberger's seat as "lean Democratic."

    Broadly understood, Spanberger was blasting liberals in the House Democratic conference for advocating policies and views that might be popular in their overwhelmingly Democratic districts but that endangered their colleagues in swing seats, where the majority is typically won and lost.

    New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, one of the most visible liberals in the party, immediately pushed back on the notion that liberals hurt swing district Democrats in 2020.
    "You can't just tell the Black, Brown, & youth organizers riding in to save us every election to be quiet or not have their reps champion them when they need us," she tweeted. "Or wonder why they don't show up for midterms when they're scolded for existing. Esp when they're delivering victories."
    Added AOC: "And btw I'm happy to cede ground on things that aren't working in some areas! But finger pointing is not gonna help. There's real workable & productive paths here if the party is open to us."
    What's beyond debate is that Republican strategists took comments made by liberals within the Democratic Party and used them to blast everyone from Spanberger on down. As Parker Poling, the lead staffer at the House Republican campaign arm, told me on Thursday about the messaging that worked for her side in the election:

    "If you put all of the messages into a single broad category, it would be the extreme leftward lurch of the Democrat Party. That was messaged in different ways in different districts. In New York state, bail reform was extremely unpopular and meshed well with defund the police, so a public safety angle was the most effective. In some districts, it was 'Medicare for All' and the loss of private health insurance. In a number of suburban districts, we talked about pocketbook issues like higher taxes under Biden. And in other districts, we focused on the extremism of the 'Green New Deal.' And in south Florida especially, it was socialism more broadly. All of those messages fit within the rubric of extremism."The question is whether the party -- almost certain now to have a professed moderate in Joe Biden in the White House -- will listen to the likes of Spanberger or continue to move leftward, driven in that direction by AOC and other high-profile liberals. Will they seek to pass centrist legislation that has a chance of passing in what will likely be a Republican-controlled Senate and being signed by Biden? Or does the left push for the boldest possible progressive legislation -- and let the chips fall where they may in the Senate?
    Which way Democrats go strategically will have a real effect on their fate in the 2022 midterms -- not to mention the 2024 election.

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  • Firestorm
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post

    Please understand something: The accusations of voter fraud are originating from one place and one place only: The deranged imagination of Donald Trump.
    He has other republican accomplices in this too. Including Ted Cruz. The GoP is playing its part in enabling this insanity although not everyone seems to be on board.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
    TH,if even a fraction of the acusations of election fraud turn true and can be proven as such,the situation is fvcked.Is way worse than a Trump victory.What soul is intact,no idea.
    That is the LAST thing we need to be worried about.

    Please understand something: The accusations of voter fraud are originating from one place and one place only: The deranged imagination of Donald Trump.

    Actual voter fraud is miniscule and inconsequential to the election results.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mihais
    replied
    TH,if even a fraction of the acusations of election fraud turn true and can be proven as such,the situation is fvcked.Is way worse than a Trump victory.What soul is intact,no idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • TopHatter
    replied
    The Lies from the Trump White House are Getting Desperate

    The November 5 press conference was a new low point for the Office of the President as Trump made baseless claims about the state of the electoral race.
    by BRIAN KAREM

    NOVEMBER 6, 2020 2:54 PM
    I was in the White House briefing room on Thursday.

    I was stunned.

    I have covered every president since Ronald Reagan. I’ve occasionally been lied to or misled by every one of them.

    But no president ever sought to destroy our Democracy with their lies until Donald Trump. None ever showed the American people such callous disrespect until Donald Trump walked into the White House briefing room on November 5, 2020.

    Trump told the nation that mail-in votes were fraudulent. He had no proof of this.

    He said he was leading the race. He wasn’t.

    He wanted to stop counting votes in states where he led and continue counting votes in states where he trailed.

    He gave a prepared speech filled with lies that disparaged every volunteer and worker at every precinct in the United States and dismissed how our democracy counts votes—without even appearing to know how it is done.

    I watched as press secretary Kayleigh McEnany nodded along in agreement with her boss. It was disgraceful.

    What comes next? Having watched this man up close for four years, I do not believe that Donald Trump will concede his loss. There might be a phone call to Joe Biden from someone at the Trump campaign. Maybe Mike Pence will deliver some remarks in lieu of a concession speech.

    And if I had to guess, I would be surprised if Trump shows up for the inauguration.

    His future is bleak. He may or may not be indicted. He’s staring at a debt of close to a billion dollars and that won’t go away.

    Trumpism as a movement is not dead. And that will have to be addressed by the Republican party—not to mention the rest of America—going forward. But we should all understand one important thing: Trump’s defeat is a good outcome—an unambiguously good outcome—for America.


    Those who expected an easy defeat of Trump underestimated the power of his personality and the problems which drove many to his cause.

    It was always going to be a tough fight because the soul of America was at stake and people like Stephen Miller, once they get ahold of power, are always loathe to let it go. And Trump is the same. He called the White House a shit hole when he first moved in, but he has grown to love both the power and its trappings.

    The mood in the White House has sunk each day since Fox News called Arizona for Joe Biden. I watched Kellyanne Conway bolt out of the Palm Room doors leading to the East Room, where the Trump faithful gathered late Tuesday night to celebrate Trump’s re-election.

    Conway was talking on the phone, trying to deal with the fallout of the Arizona results. Like dictators everywhere, the Trump people could not believe that he’d lost a state full of “his people.”

    By Wednesday morning, the numbed looks on staffers’ faces made it apparent that Trump was losing more than Arizona. There were a few souls putting on a brave face, but for most it was slowly sinking in that Trump was staring at the abyss.

    He will challenge everything he can in court. He will get Lindsay Graham to bow and scrape and shill for him. He will put Corey Lewandowski on a megaphone outside of every precinct, whore house, outhouse and chicken house in the country. But there has been no evidence of widespread voter fraud. And as Trump now stands metaphorically naked before the American people, fewer will follow the lesser imps who remain.

    Donald Trump defiled the office of the presidency and his November 5 remarks should go down as the lowest point for any chief executive at any time in American history.

    But he will soon be on his way and the soul of America is still intact. The people of the United States showed that. The poll workers in precincts across the country showed us the system is sound and people from all political parties and persuasions can work together.

    The American soul is strong. Democracy is messy and working together and treating each other with respect is alive and well. Poll workers dedicated to the American dream proved that this week. We only need to excise the malignancy of Donald Trump to encourage people to work together once again.

    It will be done because Donald Trump is done.

    As Donald Trump walked away from us last night I asked him why he continued to lie to the American people and why was he so delusional. He flinched, but didn’t answer, and held on to a column as he rounded the corner and disappeared into the bowels of the White House.

    It may be the last time I get to ask him a question as president.
    ____________

    The only question now is, how much more of a circus shit show will Trump perform between now and January 20th?

    I think we'll see a major eruption when a major network or news service like AP and especially Fox News declare Biden the winner.

    Leave a comment:


  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Mihais View Post
    What you will likely see is even greater radicalization and starting of calls for seccession,as far fetched as it may look right now.2020 is a preview,not the endgame.
    I'm afraid that you're correct. This was just the warm-up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mihais
    replied
    Originally posted by InExile View Post

    It’s hard to predict the future, but I don’t think we are entering a period of Republican dominance comparable to after the civil war or even during the time of Ronald Reagan. I think the next decade will continue to see a balance between the two parties and extremely close elections.

    While Democrats might struggle to hold on to white suburban voters and some minority voters this will likely be balanced somewhat by changing demographics. And I also think many democratic voters may not so easily forget the Trump years and rush back to the arms of the GOP

    Republicans have problems of their own. The chamber of commerce wing of the party might see this as an opportunity to take the party back from the Trumpists. They would probably control political contributions, Republicans were badly outmatched this cycle when it came to raising campaign contributions.
    You assume this is 1992.It's not.The 2 sides hate each other.Just because some folks living in their ivory tower don't see it that way doesn't make it less true.The chamber of commerce Republicans,as you named them,are peanuts compared to Trump's base.Trump himself was always less important and his flaws were always known to everyone on the right.It's just that half of the nation views him as a lesser evil with a couple of qualities mixed in,compared to outright evil.Dems on their turn have nothing to tell on the other half of the nation,except ''racists and nazis''.Which is a dumber way of saying ''evil''.
    What you will likely see is even greater radicalization and starting of calls for seccession,as far fetched as it may look right now.2020 is a preview,not the endgame.


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  • Firestorm
    replied
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post

    Obviously a lot of split ticket voting went on. Now we know that no Trump supporter would ever split ticket vote. The same is true of dyed in the wool Democratic voters which leaves independents who would split their ticket down ballot in their local elections. I'm not sure yet how much the socialist tag on some House members hurt them but I'm sure it did. Same goes for any one who seemed to even give defund the police a passing nod. As I was telling GVC California is an interesting study. The state elects all Democrats and some quite progressive but a lot in the state gets dealt with via propositions good or bad. The key is to watch which get passed and which don't. If you pay close attention you would see the ones that pass are right down the middle while the edge propositions get nixed every time. So if the Democrat was perceived towards the far left edge the electorate (independents) pulled things back more to the center right.
    True, I am also talking about independents and voters whom the Dems had lost to Trump in 2016. At least some of them seem to have come back along with some of the new voters. But have they come back to Dems, or just to Biden because they despise Trump?


    No Cruz and Rubio do not come even close to what Trump has. Trump has "Celebrity!" which no other candidate has had before. Trump is the Kardashian of the political world hands down and as we know lots of people are awed by celebrities. That type of awe is endemic around the world in many countries. However, for Trump, he would need to come through in order to keep some of those who were only awed a little bit and then got bored.
    If it was Trump's celebrity that was carrying things for the Republicans, they would not be gaining seats in the House and holding in the Senate while Trump is on course to lose the presidential race. Looks to me like the other way around. Trump is perhaps dragging them down now. Not with their base but with the fence sitters who seem to be ok voting for them in Congressional races but don't seem to want to do so for Trump after seeing the train wreck of the last 4 years.

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  • InExile
    replied
    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post

    Nothing stops them from changing their rhetoric having learned lessons from Trump. The thing is, their huge support in minority communities and urban liberals is what is sustaining Democrats right now. If the Republicans can chip away at their minority support, they will be in serious trouble. Trump managed to do that in some areas despite being a racist clown.
    It’s hard to predict the future, but I don’t think we are entering a period of Republican dominance comparable to after the civil war or even during the time of Ronald Reagan. I think the next decade will continue to see a balance between the two parties and extremely close elections.

    While Democrats might struggle to hold on to white suburban voters and some minority voters this will likely be balanced somewhat by changing demographics. And I also think many democratic voters may not so easily forget the Trump years and rush back to the arms of the GOP

    Republicans have problems of their own. The chamber of commerce wing of the party might see this as an opportunity to take the party back from the Trumpists. They would probably control political contributions, Republicans were badly outmatched this cycle when it came to raising campaign contributions.

    Leave a comment:

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