The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

[InExile]

There are plenty of racists in America, and there are plenty of people who are WAY too comfortable with authoritarianism for my taste, but there's not many people who are going to sign on board for death camps. At least not yet. I do not know what Americans 2 generations from now will think. I suspect Brazil is more likely than anything, and if we are unlucky, an Argentine style military dictatorship.

Even the majority of Germans did not sign up for death camps or gas chambers, which is why the Nazi elite planned the holocaust in secret, destroyed evidence and covered their tracks and denied everything after the war, and spun lies and conspiracies about what happened. So the Germans were able to pretend after the war that the 'real' criminals were an extremely small number of people.

I still think that given the right circumstances, about 25%-30% of the people (in many democracies), would enthusiastically back a semi-fascist, authoritarian Government. Not a Nazi regime, simply a run of the mill right wing government that oppresses political opponents to stay in power indefinitely, and carries out a variety of right wing policies that appeal to them on economic and cultural issues.

[TopHatter]

Even the majority of Germans did not sign up for death camps or gas chambers, which is why the Nazi elite planned the holocaust in secret, destroyed evidence and covered their tracks and denied everything after the war, and spun lies and conspiracies about what happened. So the Germans were able to pretend after the war that the 'real' criminals were an extremely small number of people.

I still think that given the right circumstances, about 25%-30% of the people (in many democracies), would enthusiastically back a semi-fascist, authoritarian Government. Not a Nazi regime, simply a run of the mill right wing government that oppresses political opponents to stay in power indefinitely, and carries out a variety of right wing policies that appeal to them on economic and cultural issues.

^^^ What he said

And right now we've got an authoritarian assclown in the Oval Office, aided and abetted by the Republican Party, doing everything he can to completely fuck up this election to save his own worthless hide.

[DOR]

There are plenty of racists in America, and there are plenty of people who are WAY too comfortable with authoritarianism for my taste, but there's not many people who are going to sign on board for death camps. At least not yet. I do not know what Americans 2 generations from now will think. I suspect Brazil is more likely than anything, and if we are unlucky, an Argentine style military dictatorship.

So, Nazis, but not Hitlarian Nazis.
Works for me.

[Albany Rifles]

I suspect Brazil is more likely than anything, and if we are unlucky, an Argentine style military dictatorship.

No. HELL no. Not in this country. The apolitical beliefs of the vast majority of uniformed personnel is a bedrock foundation of our republic going all the way to Newburgh. Yes, we have our one offs like McClellan, Macarthur & Flynn (must be an Irish thing) but we as a military will not go down that road and will not allow it.

You are more likely to see a DHS action in this mode and then you'll see a DHS vs DOD.

And we better bust our asses to keep that horror show from ever happening.

The idea that it can just be cavalierly thrown out is troubling in itself.

[TopHatter]

Kamala Harris is Biden's VP pick. So, the battle lines are drawn and the armies are assembled.

Unless of course Trump throws Pence under the bus and picks Nikki Haley as his new VP.

[DOR]

Sen Harris will push VP Biden so far to the hard left ... just as far as Mike Pence pushed The Trumpet into actually reading the Constitution and the Bible, and then using both to guide his actions ...

[InExile]

I wonder if it had been better for Biden to pick a moderate Democrat from the Mid West, Klobouchar or Whitmer, as the election will most likely come down to the three states that went narrowly for Trump last time. But I guess there was perceived to be some need to reach out to the Bernie/Woke wing of the Democrats.

Guess we will see how it plays out.

[tbm3fan]

Kamala Harris is Biden's VP pick. So, the battle lines are drawn and the armies are assembled.

Unless of course Trump throws Pence under the bus and picks Nikki Haley as his new VP.

That would be a shame as I very much look forward to Pence dealing with Harris at their one debate.

[tbm3fan]

Sen Harris will push VP Biden so far to the hard left ... just as far as Mike Pence pushed The Trumpet into actually reading the Constitution and the Bible, and then using both to guide his actions ...

I'm sorry but I am going to have to say you will be wrong. Harris is central-left just like you in most cases. I think you have her confused with AOC. Seriously.

[Officer of Engineers]

I'm sorry but I am going to have to say you will be wrong. Harris is central-left just like you in most cases. I think you have her confused with AOC. Seriously.

Think your sarcasm metre needs an oil change.

[Bigfella]

I wonder if it had been better for Biden to pick a moderate Democrat from the Mid West, Klobouchar or Whitmer, as the election will most likely come down to the three states that went narrowly for Trump last time. But I guess there was perceived to be some need to reach out to the Bernie/Woke wing of the Democrats.

Guess we will see how it plays out.

The Bernie/Woke wing of the party detest Harris. They see her as an 'establishment' candaidate with a 'law & order' background. Don't mistake their rhetoric on diversity with their actions. They love ethnic diversity as long as it comes with ideological conformity. Rememebr that these are the people who attacked John Lewis as 'establishment' in 2016 and would have happily put up a ticket comprised of two white people aged over 70.

I am hoping that after the experience of 2016 the Woke wing will suck it up and vote against Trump. Some will throw a tantrum, but most will grit their teeth & vite for Joe & Kamala. I suspect that Biden will throw the left wing a few decent sized bones with his picks for Cabinet positions. Stacey Abrams might get a go as AG or something related to voting rights if she is not already running for office in Georgia. Warren will get a senior post and possibly a few more besides.

Where Harris has appeal is among the less self absorbed elements of the Democratic voter base. While black voters won't just vote for someone on skin colour, the symbolism here is significant. Similarly other potential non-white voters may feel well disposed, though I doubt she will do anything much to attract Hispanic voters that can't be better done by Dems from that background. I am not sure what the historical turnout of the somewhat misleading 'Asian-American' demographic is, but having someone called Kamala on the ticket won't hurt outreach to Americans from subcontinental backgrounds. Just as important, this signals to white moderates that a) the party is indeed committed to diversity; and b) It hasn't given itself over to the more radical wing. Harris has experience at the national level, so she won't be seen as a risk.

I'm honestly not sure any of this will make much difference to the election, but given Biden's age it might matter more than usual.

Oh, and expect attacks from the right to be directly out of the gutter. As a woman you can expect stuff about her appearance and sexual history and the fact she hasn't had children. They will also attack her ethnicity and ethnic identity in various ways. There will be more on top of that. Literally nothing gets right wingers foaming at the mouth like an intelligent woman who disagrees with them. It will get nasty.

[hboGYT]

The Bernie/Woke wing of the party detest Harris. They see her as an 'establishment' candaidate with a 'law & order' background. Don't mistake their rhetoric on diversity with their actions. They love ethnic diversity as long as it comes with ideological conformity. Rememebr that these are the people who attacked John Lewis as 'establishment' in 2016 and would have happily put up a ticket comprised of two white people aged over 70.

I am hoping that after the experience of 2016 the Woke wing will suck it up and vote against Trump. Some will throw a tantrum, but most will grit their teeth & vite for Joe & Kamala. I suspect that Biden will throw the left wing a few decent sized bones with his picks for Cabinet positions. Stacey Abrams might get a go as AG or something related to voting rights if she is not already running for office in Georgia. Warren will get a senior post and possibly a few more besides.

Where Harris has appeal is among the less self absorbed elements of the Democratic voter base. While black voters won't just vote for someone on skin colour, the symbolism here is significant. Similarly other potential non-white voters may feel well disposed, though I doubt she will do anything much to attract Hispanic voters that can't be better done by Dems from that background. I am not sure what the historical turnout of the somewhat misleading 'Asian-American' demographic is, but having someone called Kamala on the ticket won't hurt outreach to Americans from subcontinental backgrounds. Just as important, this signals to white moderates that a) the party is indeed committed to diversity; and b) It hasn't given itself over to the more radical wing. Harris has experience at the national level, so she won't be seen as a risk.

I'm honestly not sure any of this will make much difference to the election, but given Biden's age it might matter more than usual.

Oh, and expect attacks from the right to be directly out of the gutter. As a woman you can expect stuff about her appearance and sexual history and the fact she hasn't had children. They will also attack her ethnicity and ethnic identity in various ways. There will be more on top of that. Literally nothing gets right wingers foaming at the mouth like an intelligent woman who disagrees with them. It will get nasty.

The woke left sabotaged Andrew Yang who could've been a great uniter. Biden should've picked him.

I'm not sure if the South Asian community should be lumped together with East and South-East Asian communities. They face different challenges.

[Bigfella]

The woke left sabotaged Andrew Yang who could've been a great uniter. Biden should've picked him.

There is no credible political scenario in any remotely credible version of this universe where Andrew Yang gets chosen VP. Blame the 'woke left' all you want, Yang's campaign was going nowhere. UBI is a fundamentally bad idea and the only reason Yang didn't get crucified for it is that he simply wasn't imporrtant enough for anyone to care. He has no base & no constituency of any significance - he brings very little to the table compared to most others. Candidates with VASTLY better chances crashed & burned this year. Yang had slightly more chance than me of becoming....well anything this thread is talking about, but only slightly.

Given history & circumstance a female of colour was far & away the most likely VP candidate. However, even if Harris was a white guy she would be a better choice than Yang. So would most of the Dem field this year.

I'm not sure if the South Asian community should be lumped together with East and South-East Asian communities. They face different challenges.

I agree, which is why the 'Asian' category in the US (and UK for that matter) is such a curious beast. In Australia 'Asian' strictly refers to East Asia and the collective for South Asian would probably be 'subcontinental'. Very different communities indeed.

[Albany Rifles]

Think your sarcasm metre needs an oil change.

Maybe an overhaul....but Turkey, that's what 2020 has done to us.

[Albany Rifles]

I wonder if it had been better for Biden to pick a moderate Democrat from the Mid West, Klobouchar or Whitmer, as the election will most likely come down to the three states that went narrowly for Trump last time. But I guess there was perceived to be some need to reach out to the Bernie/Woke wing of the Democrats.

Guess we will see how it plays out.

I disagree and here is why....African Americans stayed home in 2016 in those states.

That African Americans were going to be more energized in this election cycle was a given. With HArris on the ticket this will only help even more.

And here is another reason why it is a good selection....the calculus of the Senate. The California seat is safe in Democratic hands...Midwestern Senate seats no so much.

I am sure that was taken into account as well.