The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

[tbm3fan]

You just referred to a huge section of the US as Nazis. Your counsel on reducing American's political division is noted and will be marked to value accordingly.

You are naive. So let's drop Nazi and use fascist. Sounds less ominous or is it? You say TH isn't helping division in the country. Let me tell you that many in America had no issues with Germany in the 30s. No surprise since most were racist and anti-Semetic at the time. They are still here. I have always felt, since that point in time, that 1/3 of the voting public would vote for a fascist like populist. Many other countries have gone down the road so why not us? Those 1/3 would care less about the other 2/3, would feel they have it coming to them, and would turn a blind eye to people boarded onto boxcars. They are the ones to watch as socialist and communists have always been a small percentage of the American public, like less than 1%.

Do you have a blind eye? If so watch out as many times even supporters have something to worry about.

[Mihais]

You are naive. So let's drop Nazi and use fascist. Sounds less ominous or is it? You say TH isn't helping division in the country. Let me tell you that many in America had no issues with Germany in the 30s. No surprise since most were racist and anti-Semetic at the time. They are still here. I have always felt, since that point in time, that 1/3 of the voting public would vote for a fascist like populist. Many other countries have gone down the road so why not us? Those 1/3 would care less about the other 2/3, would feel they have it coming to them, and would turn a blind eye to people boarded onto boxcars. They are the ones to watch as socialist and communists have always been a small percentage of the American public, like less than 1%.

Do you have a blind eye? If so watch out as many times even supporters have something to worry about.

So,you have a more limited aim.Not half,only a third.Phew!

What would be funny if it weren’t tragic is that the likes of your side and those you oppose don’t have different views on a given issue.Each is talking of completely different things.You have ZERO(0) chances of ever solving the division growing in US if you carry on like this.Because you already are balkanized.Thus,it is highly unlikely a compromise,the basic building block of governance,is even possible.Because people cannot agree on what to compromise.
Even when there is a common topic,the views are polar opposites.

[TopHatter]

So,you have a more limited aim.Not half,only a third.Phew!

What would be funny if it weren’t tragic is that the likes of your side and those you oppose don’t have different views on a given issue.Each is talking of completely different things.You have ZERO(0) chances of ever solving the division growing in US if you carry on like this.Because you already are balkanized.Thus,it is highly unlikely a compromise,the basic building block of governance,is even possible.Because people cannot agree on what to compromise.
Even when there is a common topic,the views are polar opposites.

IMO, he's absolutely correct and the numbers support him as well. Even with all that Donald Trump has done, with 4 years of him trampling all over the rule of law, ignoring the Constitution, flouting the rulings of the highest count of the land, and proclaiming his power is "total"....even with all that, he still has the solid support of 30-35% of the country.

Pointing out the obvious isn't divisive. It's just pointing out the obvious.

Also, the United States was "balkanized" from the very beginning, sometimes violently so.

[TopHatter]

Pence criticizes Chief Justice Roberts, says court's future 'on the ballot in 2020'

WASHINGTON — Vice President Mike Pence said in an interview airing Thursday that Chief Justice John Roberts has let down conservatives because of his decisions in which he sided with the Supreme Court's liberal justices.

"We have great respect for the institution of the Supreme Court of the United States, but Chief Justice John Roberts has been a disappointment to conservatives whether it be the Obamacare decision or whether it be a spate of recent decisions," Pence said in an interview with Christian Broadcasting Network’s David Brody, who released a clip of this portion of the interview Wednesday night.

Pence said that Roberts' rulings are a reminder "of just how important this election is for the future of the Supreme Court."

The vice president specifically criticized Roberts for one of the recent decisions in which he sided with the high court's liberals and struck down an restrictive abortion law in Louisiana. Pence noted the law required " doctors working in abortion clinics would have to have admitting privileges at local hospitals."

"That's a very modest restriction on abortion providers, but a narrow majority in the Supreme Court still said it was unacceptable," he said. "And I think it's been, I think it's been a wake up call for pro-life voters around the country who understand, in a very real sense, the destiny of the Supreme Court is on the ballot in 2020."

In addition to the ruling that overturned the law restricting access to abortions, Roberts cast the deciding vote by joining liberal justices in a 5-4 decision that blocked the Trump administration from shutting down DACA, which allows young people known as Dreamers to remain in the U.S. In a 6-3 decision, Roberts also joined the majority ruling federal law does not allow job discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or transgender status.

Pence reiterated in the interview that President Donald Trump plans to release a list of candidates that he could draw from for future appointments to the Supreme Court.
____________

[DOR]

IMO, he's absolutely correct and the numbers support him as well. Even with all that Donald Trump has done, with 4 years of him trampling all over the rule of law, ignoring the Constitution, flouting the rulings of the highest count of the land, and proclaiming his power is "total"....even with all that, he still has the solid support of 30-35% of the country.

Pointing out the obvious isn't divisive. It's just point out the obvious.

Also, the United States was "balkanized" from the very beginning, sometimes violently so.

^^^
What he said.

[astralis]

Let me tell you that many in America had no issues with Germany in the 30s. No surprise since most were racist and anti-Semetic at the time. They are still here. I have always felt, since that point in time, that 1/3 of the voting public would vote for a fascist like populist. Many other countries have gone down the road so why not us? Those 1/3 would care less about the other 2/3, would feel they have it coming to them, and would turn a blind eye to people boarded onto boxcars. They are the ones to watch as socialist and communists have always been a small percentage of the American public, like less than 1%.

there is a considerable amount of evidence for this, -even taking Trump out of the equation-.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...ect-democracy/

And in the U.S., a third of Republicans say a strong leader who can govern without interference from other branches of government is a good thing, compared with 20% of independents and 17% of Democrats.

added all up, that's probably 25% of the populace right there.

[Albany Rifles]

there is a considerable amount of evidence for this, -even taking Trump out of the equation-.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...ect-democracy/



added all up, that's probably 25% of the populace right there.

Our history is rife with this hard number going back to the Loyalists who wanted the strong hand of the Crown, through a core of the Warhawk Party leading to the War of 1812, Polk's Legions, The American Firsters right through the Dixiecrats to today's Alt Right.

[tbm3fan]

Our history is rife with this hard number going back to the Loyalists who wanted the strong hand of the Crown, through a core of the Warhawk Party leading to the War of 1812, Polk's Legions, The American Firsters right through the Dixiecrats to today's Alt Right.

Our experiment, even in the beginning, had those who wanted no part of it. Today is kind of looking like that. We have increasing inequality in wealth, partisan gridlock, and politicians who pander to the aggrieved. The only thing missing is political violence at this time. However, once you cross that line then people start to consider a strong man to rule and create order. No doubt one who pandered to the aggrieved to deal with the "others". Not that this is anything new as it is part and parcel of mankind therefore people have to be always on their toes regarding populists who continually rise up to take advantage.

[Firestorm]

there is a considerable amount of evidence for this, -even taking Trump out of the equation-.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...ect-democracy/

And in the U.S., a third of Republicans say a strong leader who can govern without interference from other branches of government is a good thing, compared with 20% of independents and 17% of Democrats.

added all up, that's probably 25% of the populace right there.

Would the results be a whole lot different if the poll was done in any other country? Especially one with a similar Presidential system as the US? I doubt it.

Edit: That same survey seems to suggest this is common in other wealthy democracies as well.

People, at least some of them do like and want strong leaders who can get things done. Especially if the "current" leader in power is someone they support. This poll was done in 2017 after Trump's election. If it had been done when Obama was in power and being stymied by Congressional Republicans at every step the numbers might very well have been the reverse (in terms of % of dems vs repubs who want a strong leader without anyone holding him back). And after watching the gridlock in Congress that fails to even pass a budget for the nation each year, forget about actually solving the issues facing it, you can't really blame the people for thinking this way. If anything I am surprised the numbers aren't higher.

[Mihais]

IMO, he's absolutely correct and the numbers support him as well. Even with all that Donald Trump has done, with 4 years of him trampling all over the rule of law, ignoring the Constitution, flouting the rulings of the highest count of the land, and proclaiming his power is "total"....even with all that, he still has the solid support of 30-35% of the country.

Pointing out the obvious isn't divisive. It's just pointing out the obvious.

Also, the United States was "balkanized" from the very beginning, sometimes violently so.

Speaking of ideas that got him elected and of which he implemented only a little,he's at~50%.His antics and Covid crisis etc... may have got him a loss of several percents.Which may be enough for the election.But the issue here is not whether Trump losses the election or not.The problem is guys calling 100 to 160 millions(roughly half to 3/4 of the Whites in US) people fascists(to tone down a bit from nazis) and most of the others agreeing.If you don't see why is this a problem,I'll spell it:because you don't negociate with Nazis,you make a coalition of the entire world,including commie regimes,you kill them by the tens of millions,you ruin their country and then you occupy it until they're no longer Nazis.

[DOR]

Speaking of ideas that got him elected and of which he implemented only a little,he's at~50%.His antics and Covid crisis etc... may have got him a loss of several percents.Which may be enough for the election.But the issue here is not whether Trump losses the election or not.The problem is guys calling 100 to 160 millions(roughly half to 3/4 of the Whites in US) people fascists(to tone down a bit from nazis) and most of the others agreeing.If you don't see why is this a problem,I'll spell it:because you don't negociate with Nazis,you make a coalition of the entire world,including commie regimes,you kill them by the tens of millions,you ruin their country and then you occupy it until they're no longer Nazis.

Violence.
It’s not just for national security anymore ...?

[tantalus]

Voting for Donald Trump doesnt make you a fascist, even the second time. Iam sure lot of people will vote for any republican because thats just what they always do. Or they will just vote down the line on whoever they feel supports them on their single core issue like abortion.

It's a mistake to discuss trump suppoters without discussing that nuance and americans risk a further breakdown in dialogue. There are two modes, conversation or violence, best choose conversation.

Its a shame voters cant vote down the ballot for american presidential elections. That would open the election up for third party candidates and create competition, moderation and better incentives, it would be best to break the duopoly.

[TopHatter]

Voting for Donald Trump doesnt make you a fascist, even the second time. Iam sure lot of people will vote for any republican because thats just what they always do. Or they will just vote down the line on whoever they feel supports them on their single core issue like abortion.

No, it doesn't make you a fascist. But it does make you comfortable with Trump's brand of authoritarianism. And his racism.

It's a mistake to discuss trump suppoters without discussing that nuance and americans risk a further breakdown in dialogue.

So far what I've heard from Trump's followers is:

• "He owns the libs"
• "He's the anti-lefty!"
• "I like his policies!"
• "I don't care about what Trump says, I care about what he does"

There are two modes, conversation or violence, best choose conversation.

I choose conversation. Trump's followers have promised -and carried out- violence and intimidation.

Its a shame voters cant vote down the ballot for american presidential elections. That would open the election up for third party candidates and create competition, moderation and better incentives, it would be best to break the duopoly.

Never happen, for the exact reasons that you stated.

[InExile]

The problem is guys calling 100 to 160 millions(roughly half to 3/4 of the Whites in US) people fascists(to tone down a bit from nazis) and most of the others agreeing.If you don't see why is this a problem,I'll spell it:because you don't negociate with Nazis,you make a coalition of the entire world,including commie regimes,you kill them by the tens of millions,you ruin their country and then you occupy it until they're no longer Nazis.

Not true, people may not like fascists but the world did not go to war with them until the Germans went on a genocidal imperial war of conquest, trying to achieve complete dominance over Europe and maybe even the world.

In neutral Spain fascism survived well into the 1970s; even Mussolini in the hypothetical scenario of not casting his lot with Hitler might have lived to a ripe old age with most of his North African empire intact.

Infact the Western democracies were desperate to reach a deal with Hitler well up to 1939, shunning the Soviets at every turn. It was only when the survival of both was at stake did they join hands.

[Mihais]

That is beside the point.The point is these guys and the entire network opposing Trump considers his electoral base numbering in 100+ millions people as evil.