The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

[TopHatter]

Your House. Your Rules. Chief amongst your rules is that no one can tell you how to vote and no one can tell you you voted wrong.

No one has the right to tell me what I do for my daughter is wrong and I certainly do not have the right to tell GVChamp he is doing wrong by his children. Whoever says so is out of place and deserves ridicule. Snapper is not American and she has absolutely zero rights and zero privledge telling any American on how to vote or how to provide for his children's future. Misplaced or not, it is for GVChamp to provide for his children as HE SEES BEST and if that means not voting for Biden, that means not voting for Biden.

ANYTHING ELSE IS FAR, FAR, FAR MORE DANGEROUS THAN TRUMP! It is Thought Police!

No one is putting a gun to GVChamp's head and telling him how to vote. The entire point of the WAB or any message board worth its salt is to debate the facts, and provide opinion based on the facts. And that is exactly what I've been trying to do.

I did the exact same thing years ago when I would repeatedly denounce the cult of personality that sprung up around Barack Obama, even AFTER he was out of office, and I'm damned well not going to ignore the damage done by Donald Trump.

If GVChamp wants to vote for Donald Trump, that's his problem. But if Snapper wants provide her opinion, backed up by facts, why that's a stupid fucking idea, I have ZERO problem with that.

[Officer of Engineers]

If GVChamp wants to vote for Donald Trump, that's his problem. But if Snapper wants provide her opinion, backed up by facts, why that's a stupid fucking idea, I have ZERO problem with that.

As a father, I have a real big problem WITH ANYONE TELLING ANYONE how to raise their children. And Snapper has no facts, just rhetoric.

[TopHatter]

Trump Admits It: He's Losing

Donald Trump knows he's losing.

The president has privately come to that grim realization in recent days, multiple people close to him told POLITICO, amid a mountain of bad polling and warnings from some of his staunchest allies that he's on course to be a one-term president.

Trump has endured what aides describe as the worst stretch of his presidency, marred by widespread criticism over his response to the coronavirus pandemic and nationwide racial unrest. His rally in Oklahoma last weekend, his first since March, turned out to be an embarrassment when he failed to fill the arena.

What should have been an easy interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity on Thursday horrified advisers when Trump offered a rambling, non-responsive answer to a simple question about his goals for a second term. In the same appearance, the normally self-assured president offered a tacit acknowledgment that he might lose when he said that Joe Biden is “gonna be your president because some people don't love me, maybe."

In the hours after the interview aired, questions swirled within his inner circle about whether his heart was truly in it when it comes to seeking reelection.

Trump has time to rebound, and the political environment could improve for him. But interviews with more than a half-dozen people close to the president depicted a reelection effort badly in need of direction — and an unfocused candidate who repeatedly undermines himself.

“Under the current trajectory, President Trump is on the precipice of one the of the worst electoral defeats in modern presidential elections and the worst historically for an incumbent president,” said former Trump political adviser Sam Nunberg, who remains a supporter.

Nunberg pointed to national polls released by CNBC and New York Times/Siena over the past week showing Trump receiving below 40 percent against Biden.

If Trump's numbers against erode to 35 percentage points over the next two weeks, Nunberg added, “He’s going to be facing realistically a 400-plus electoral vote loss and the president would need to strongly reconsider whether he wants to continue to run as the Republican presidential nominee.”

Behind the scenes, Trump and his team are taking steps to correct course. In the week since his Tulsa rally, the president has grudgingly conceded that he’s behind, according to three people who are familiar with his thinking. Trump, who vented for days about the event, is starting to take a more hands-on role in the campaign and has expressed openness to adding more people to the team. He has also held meetings recently focusing on his efforts in individual battleground states.

Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, who effectively oversees the campaign from the White House, is expected to play an even more active role.

Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale was blamed internally for the Tulsa rally failure. Some people complained about him trumpeting that 1 million people had requested tickets, a boast that fell flat when thousands of seats sat empty during Trump's speech.

Parscale has been a target of some Trump allies who argue the campaign is lacking a coherent strategy and direction. But people close to the president insist that Parscale's job is safe for now. Trump, who visited the campaign’s Arlington, Virginia headquarters a few months ago, has told people he came away impressed with the sophistication of the organization.

Parscale, whose background is as a digital strategist, has received some reinforcements in recent weeks. Longtime Trump adviser Bill Stepien was given added responsibilities in the campaign, including working with political director Chris Carr and the Republican National Committee on voter turnout. And Jason Miller, a veteran of the 2016 campaign, was brought back to serve as a chief political strategist, a position that had been unfilled.

But those internal moves have done little to calm Republican jitters about the president's personal performance. Fox News host and Trump favorite Tucker Carlson issued a blunt warning on his show this week that the president “could well lose this election.” South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, another close Trump ally, told reporters that the president needs to make the race “more about policy and less about your personality.”

Trump's team insists the president’s numbers are bound to improve as he steps up his public events and intensifies his attacks on Biden. People involved in the campaign say they have settled on two main avenues to go after the former vice president: That he’s beholden to liberals who want to do away with law and order, and that he’s a consummate Washington insider.

The campaign has begun a massive TV ad campaign going after the 77-year-old former vice president, including over his mental capacity and his nearly five-decade political career. Hoping to make inroads with African-American voters, Trump's campaign is running ads slamming Biden over his central role in the 1994 crime bill.

The commercials are airing in an array of states including Georgia, a traditionally red state where Trump suddenly finds himself in a fight. The cash-flush campaign is expected to remain on the TV airwaves in a host of key states through the election.

Veterans of Trump’s first presidential campaign liken their current predicament to the nightmarish summer of 2016, when he was buffeted by an array of self-inflicted scandals — from his criticism of a Gold Star family to his attack on a federal judge of Mexican ancestry.

Then as now, Trump trailed badly.

“There was similar fretting in 2016 and if it had been accurate, Hillary Clinton would be in the White House right now. Joe Biden is the weakest Democrat candidate in a generation and we are defining him that way,” said Trump campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh. “We are four months from Election Day and in the end it will be a clear choice between President Trump’s incredible record of achievement and Joe Biden’s half-century of failure in Washington, D.C.”

Still, Trump advisers acknowledge that tearing down Biden will require a level of discipline he isn’t demonstrating. They have pleaded with Trump — who has used his Twitter account to vilify critics from MSNBC host Joe Scarborough to former National Security Adviser John Bolton — to stop focusing on slights that mean little to voters.

Biden's low-profile during the pandemic has made it that much harder for Trump to land a punch, his advisers said.

But Republicans say he and his campaign need to figure out something soon.

“The key factor has been that Biden has been able to stay out of the race,” said David McIntosh, the president of the pro-Trump Club for Growth. “Republicans have to start defining Biden and put resources and effort and consistent messaging behind it.”
_________________

As I've said before, I'll take nothing for granted until Trump leaves the White House permanently. But as little as 6 months ago, I never in a million years would've imagined Trump in this position: Looking and talking like a loser.

120,000 dead Americans and the tattered remains of America's institutions and reputation are the casualties to date of this maniac's ego and thirst for power and money....and the people who enabled and supported him.

[Officer of Engineers]

If some lunatic lefty like Bernie Sanders who wished to restrict the freedom for a person to have private medical insurance were a possibility then I would say his fears were reasonable but Bernie is not an option and his diabolical healthcare schemes have next to no chance of becoming reality. But the same person who is scared of the restriction of his future healthcare choices admits Trumpkin is a threat to his very democratic constitution. It is a case of the imaginary danger - or at the very most a possible future danger - verses a real and present danger. You must survive the first danger to even have a choice about a possible future one.

Sure it is his choice and US 'rules' and I would fight for his freedom to chose as he wishes but the logic and any sense of responsibility is missing when he himself recognises a real and existent danger. When my homeland although it is not in my own native country is threatened I go and do what I can to defend its liberty. It seems strange to me that a person cannot bring themselves to even vote against a danger they recognise and who will not be able to answer such a question from their children who presumably they wish to inherit the same freedoms and opportunities as they enjoy so I must question his seemingly illogical or else totally irresponsible disregard toward future generations. What are we if we fail to pass on as good a life if not better to our children? To wish otherwise is selfish nihilism and as I have children of my own I wonder how they may judge my actions when a real danger exists that could threaten their future. Thus I wonder how his children may consider his proclaimed intention not to even vote against a danger he acknowledges is clear and present.

It is not about who's rules apply - I do not dispute his right to decide as he wishes even if it be irresponsible, selfish or irrational but as one person to another regardless of citizenship or 'rules' I have every right to question his rationality and/or motives which are so alien to me and everyone else who might face a recognised danger.

You Sir are a Canadian and I am a Polish Ukrainian but it has not stopped you commenting on my views regarding events in Ukraine. You are free to think and say what you think and I welcome your thoughts for the most part and most certainly would defend your right to say them. Nor does any 'rule' prohibit you speaking of other peoples views and events in other countries... May I not question this Gentleman's views of events in his own country?

If he or the moderators wish an explanation or an apology for the style of my critique being perhaps too personal or perhaps if he actually has children who may be offended when I intended hypothetical children then naturally I do not mean to cause to offense but merely to question his responsibility toward future generations that will live with the consequences of our his (and all of our) actions/inaction's.

Oh get off it. At no time did I tell you how to vote or how to manage your country. I call things as I see them. At no time did I put my two cents on who's best in the UKR. I call out actual Nazis in your country whom you refuse to acknowledge but that is your problem, not mine. I don't like how your country is run but at no time did I even suggest a way for your country. Your House. Your Rules. I never tell anyone how to change their House nor their Rules. The worst I've ever done in that regard is to call the House ugly and the Rules even more ugly but it sure ain't my place to change your House nor your Rules.

That is a far freaking cry from saying GVChamp's kids will thank him for doing nothing. That is NOT your place! You owe him an apology!

[TopHatter]

As a father, I have a real big problem WITH ANYONE TELLING ANYONE how to raise their children.

That's perfectly understandable and I'll not disagree with you on that, ever.

If GVChamp has a problem with it and wants an apology, he's free to ask for it.

And Snapper has no facts, just rhetoric.

You're free to express that opinion as well.

[Officer of Engineers]

The thought that the Electoral College could, once again, rescue Trump from a majority of Americans that want him gone makes me want to vomit.

But at least there's a few people out there willing to own up to their mistake and not repeat it again. That's hopeful.

If Trump wins again, it will be no one's fault but Biden's. Clinton's Electoral College mistakes should be well known by now. If Trump gets re-elected, there's no one to blame but Biden. It is a very poor leader to blame the system for failure, especially when the faults are well known ... and especially against Trump who can't even play real life Monopoly, let alone the EC. And let's face it, Trump didn't win the EC because those States wanted Trump. Trump won because those States hated Clinton. Biden better make damned sure to woo those damned key States and he better be coming with flowers and chocolates instead of sending a telegram (Please tell me you're old enough to know what that is).

[tbm3fan]

That he’s beholden to liberals who want to do away with law and order, and that he’s a consummate Washington insider
_________________

As I've said before, I'll take nothing for granted until Trump leaves the White House permanently. But as little as 6 months ago, I never in a million years would've imagined Trump in this position: Looking and talking like a loser.

120,000 dead Americans and the tattered remains of America's institutions and reputation are the casualties to date of this maniac's ego and thirst for power and money....and the people who enabled and supported him.

Biden is the consummate insider? Somehow that is far more reassuring than a mad cow loose in a glass store.

Gee, now what would I call McConnell or Graham. The consummate ____________ .

[DOR]

Vladimir Putin must be so proud of the guys and gals he assigned to convince Americans that the mainstream media isn't to be trusted. From Pizzagate to the Trumpet they exceeded all expectations.

Total victory is achieved when it is easier, more comfortable, to believe the bucket-load of lies being fed to us by the Putinites than to actually think for ourselves.

[Officer of Engineers]

Vladimir Putin must be so proud of the guys and gals he assigned to convince Americans that the mainstream media isn't to be trusted. From Pizzagate to the Trumpet they exceeded all expectations.

Total victory is achieved when it is easier, more comfortable, to believe the bucket-load of lies being fed to us by the Putinites than to actually think for ourselves.

Oh get off it. The fault lies with Clinton. Not Putin. Yeah, Putin did a great job at misinformation but guess what, we are democracies. It is the leader's job to convince us that he/she is right for the job - NOT OUR JOB TO BLINDLY TRUST CLINTON! SHE FAILED AND FAILED BAD! PERIOD!

You want to think for yourself? Tell me. You said it was easy and more comfortable to be believe a bucket load of lies. Fine. Let me rephrase the question. WHY IS IT SO DAMNED HARD FOR AMERICANS TO BELIEVE CLINTON TO BE A GOOD LEADER?

[TopHatter]

If Trump wins again, it will be no one's fault but Biden's. Clinton's Electoral College mistakes should be well known by now. If Trump gets re-elected, there's no one to blame but Biden. It is a very poor leader to blame the system for failure, especially when the faults are well known ... and especially against Trump who can't even play real life Monopoly, let alone the EC. And let's face it, Trump didn't win the EC because those States wanted Trump. Trump won because those States hated Clinton. Biden better make damned sure to woo those damned key States and he better be coming with flowers and chocolates instead of sending a telegram (Please tell me you're old enough to know what that is).

This election is not happening in a vacuum. Between COVID-19 and GOP voter suppression, it's entirely possible that entire blocs of people that would gladly vote for Biden won't be able to.

Biden can't come with flowers and chocolates without endangering entire at-risk populations. Trump of course has no such morals.

[Officer of Engineers]

Biden can't come with flowers and chocolates without endangering entire at-risk populations. Trump of course has no such morals.

It will be an extremely poor democratic candidate to blame voters for his election loss. It is Biden's job to convince voters that he is a better choice than Trump (how hard can that be given even now Trump is convinced that Biden is a better choice). How Biden does his job is up to him BUT IT WILL NOT BE THE VOTERS' FAULT if he loses the election. If Trump convinces more of his key state supporters to come out to vote for him, then like it or not, Trump is the American choice and there's no one to blame but Biden.

[TopHatter]

It will be an extremely poor democratic candidate to blame voters for his election loss. It is Biden's job to convince voters that he is a better choice than Trump (how hard can that be given even now Trump is convinced that Biden is a better choice). How Biden does his job is up to him BUT IT WILL NOT BE THE VOTERS' FAULT if he loses the election. If Trump convinces more of his key state supporters to come out to vote for him, then like it or not, Trump is the American choice and there's no one to blame but Biden.

Sir, did you read my post? I never blamed the voters. Not once. Never even hinted at it.

[TopHatter]

Trump Campaign Peeled Off Social Distancing Stickers In Arena Before Tulsa Rally: Reports

Donald Trump’s campaign removed thousands of stickers on arena seats encouraging social distancing before the president’s rally last week in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Billboard and The Washington Post reported.

The “Do Not Sit Here Please!” stickers were intended to help stem the spread of COVID-19 cases, which were spiking in the city at the time of the June 20 event — and continue to climb in Tulsa and throughout Oklahoma.

Campaign officials informed an executive of venue manager ASM Global to stop labeling the seats hours before the rally, ASM Executive Vice President Doug Thornton told Billboard.

“They also told us that they didn’t want any signs posted saying we should social distance in the venue,” he added. “The campaign went through and removed the stickers.”

By the time the Trump campaign interfered, arena workers had already affixed some 12,000 stickers on nearly every other seat, a person familiar with the event told the Post.

Both Billboard and the Post also viewed video showing Trump campaign staffers peeling off stickers from the seats.

There was plenty of room for social distancing at the BOK Center, where only 6,200 rally tickets were scanned for a space that can hold 19,000 people. Instead, vast swaths of seats were left empty as people jammed together in seats closest to the podium.

The stickers were part of ASM Global’s new mandatory “VenueShield” protocol aimed at helping protect people from COVID-19 at the 325 sites it manages. But Thornton told Billboard that ASM had no legal authority to stop the event, which was approved by Gov. Kevin Stitt (R) and Tulsa’s Republican mayor, G.T. Bynum.

The Trump campaign ignored ASM’s request to file a COVID-19 safety plan for the rally, Billboard reported — even though Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, had reportedly warned the White House that the rally would be dangerous. Hundreds of campaign staffers only haphazardly wore masks and maintained social distancing, according to Billboard. Tulsa is overhauling event protocols at the center in the wake of the Trump rally.

As many as eight Trump campaign staff members involved in preparing for the rally tested positive for the coronavirus. A reporter who covered the rally has also tested positive.

“We know that two of them were intermingling with the people in the arena,” Tulsa Police Department Cpl. David Crow said at a meeting last week. “Obviously, we know that that event probably triggered some type of broader infection.”

Campaign manager Brad Parscale, campaign staffers and dozens of Secret Service officers are reportedly now in quarantine because of suspected COVID-19 exposure at the Tulsa rally.

Anyone applying for tickets to the rally on the Trump campaign website had to agree not to sue the president or the campaign if they contracted COVID-19 at the event.

The Trump campaign did not immediately return a request for comment.
______________

Speaking of no morals about putting people at risk....

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir, did you read my post? I never blamed the voters. Not once. Never even hinted at it.

I apologize if I even hinted that you did. What I'm stressing that it is the Candiadte's job to convince voters - NOT the voter's job to do what the Candidate believes to be right.

Further more, we are democracies. We ARE SUPPOSED TO BE EXPOSED TO IDEAS - INCLUDING BAD IDEAS! ESPECIALLY BAD IDEAS! It is the Candidate's JOB to convince US that his ideas are better than those other ideas, INCLUDING BAD IDEAS (ie, voting for Trump).

Lastly, it seems that even Putin has abandoned Trump.

[Officer of Engineers]

Speaking of no morals about putting people at risk....

Two former cops did that. It's no use complaining about Trump once the horses left the barn.