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The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It
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Originally posted by snapper View PostBernie Sanders is not standing for President as DOR said. Seems not even the Democrats fancy his plan.
"Vote for me, only half my friends are insane and want to destroy your life! I promise they will have no meaningful impact at all on your well being! We have them well contained even though they continually drag our party left every election cycle!"
Not even remotely reassuring.
Honestly I don't think I've seen heads buried this deep into the sand since 2007 when people thought subprime wasn't going to be a big deal."The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck
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your argument is "yes, my party has elected a President with authoritarian fantasies, but because he is an utter moron, he is too incompetent to -actually- warp the Constitution. the woke mob, on the other hand, has the ear of politicians who may be rather more competent and execute their agenda sometime in the future."
basically, this is an argument that political concerns...trump...competency/expertise 100% of the time. in fact, if the opposing politician is competent, that is worse for you -- because then their political agenda has a higher chance of becoming reality.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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Wall Street Journal Editorial Board Issues Dire Election Warning To Donald Trump
President Donald Trump is headed “for what could be an historic repudiation that would take the Republican Senate down with him,” the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal warned in a column Thursday.
The conservative newspaper’s board said Trump had “reverted to his worst form” just four months before the 2020 election, and that he had “no second-term agenda, or even a message beyond four more years of himself” with “little time to recover.”
Trump had “all but given up even talking about” the coronavirus pandemic that has now killed more than 125,000 people nationwide, the board said. His “default now is defensive self-congratulation.”
The board did claim that the president’s “record fighting the coronavirus is better than his critics claim after a bad start in late February and March.” It also took a swipe at Trump’s likely election rival, saying that presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden’s “only real message is that he’s not Donald Trump.”
But “millions of Americans are close to deciding that four more years are more risk than they can stand,” said the board, which in recent weeks has attacked Trump over his haphazard coronavirus task force briefings and his attempted smearing of MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough.
The editorial also suggested that Trump “lacks the self-awareness and discipline” to campaign on an agenda of resurrecting the economy following the pandemic.
“He may be so thrown off by his falling polls that he simply can’t do it,” the board concluded. “If that’s true he should understand that he is headed for a defeat that will reward all of those who schemed against him in 2016. Worse, he will have let down the 63 million Americans who sent him to the White House by losing, of all people, to ‘Sleepy Joe.’”
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Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see this sociopath and his enablers shown the door on Election Day....or before, if Trump's sudden prediction of utter doom appears to be coming true, he does his usual toddler-throwing-a-temper-tantrum routine and takes all his toys and goes home.
I can't imagine him doing that though...because the moment he doesn't have the GOP Congress and his Justice Department shielding him, there is going to be a 5 mile long line of State and Federal prosecutors with their fangs out, just aching to carve this cockwomble up like a Thanksgiving turkey. His only chance for at least short-term survival is to get another 4 years.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by Bigfella View PostIn Australia private & public operate side by side. Everyone is covered by Medicare and those who want a higher level of coverage take out private. From my POV Medicare should cover more & be better funded (surprise surprise Conservative governments have been defunding it for decades), but it gives people low cost/no cost access to quality healthcare.
The US system looks like something you would design if you wanted high cost, high profit & highly complex healthcare. Only accident or ideology would produce something that poorly designed.
https://apnews.com/603cc3601dbb8dfa268c1b73c532300d
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The board did claim that the president’s “record fighting the coronavirus is better than his critics claim after a bad start in late February and March.”
we're getting record outbreaks while Europe's largely controlled the first wave, and this is "better than his critics claim"?
that's similar to Pence's bald lie today that we've flattened the curve, lol.
Trump can't help being Trump. it's his enablers that disgust me.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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Originally posted by GVChamp View PostEndorsements from almost half the Democratic senate caucus and half the Democratic house caucus, endorsed by Presidential Candidates Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris....
"Vote for me, only half my friends are insane and want to destroy your life! I promise they will have no meaningful impact at all on your well being! We have them well contained even though they continually drag our party left every election cycle!"
Not even remotely reassuring.
Honestly I don't think I've seen heads buried this deep into the sand since 2007 when people thought subprime wasn't going to be a big deal.Trust me?
I'm an economist!
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Originally posted by astralis View Postyour argument is "yes, my party has elected a President with authoritarian fantasies, but because he is an utter moron, he is too incompetent to -actually- warp the Constitution. the woke mob, on the other hand, has the ear of politicians who may be rather more competent and execute their agenda sometime in the future."
basically, this is an argument that political concerns...trump...competency/expertise 100% of the time. in fact, if the opposing politician is competent, that is worse for you -- because then their political agenda has a higher chance of becoming reality.
Woke Mob already pushed society substantially left in the last 15 years and has already pushed the Democratic party into non-consensus positions on things like immigration. DACA is not a legislative achievement, it is a Banana Republic achievement, and the only reason we don't have DAPA right now is because Cocaine Mitch blocked Obama's SC pick. Woke Mob has only been getting substantial traction in the last few years. Maybe we can revisit in 2024, but I highly doubt it, I suspect this is a generational shift.
Also, your judgement of competence may not match my judgement of competence. I don't agree with Biden's policy on its merits and he strikes me as incompetent. Obama struck me as being in over his head. Clinton had a very special kind of competence that would have left him getting railed if it were still the Cold War. Bush couldn't manage national level politics. Reagan lucked out. Carter was a moron. Ford was a placeholder. The last broadly competent President was Nixon and he was a paranoid nutjob.
Originally posted by DOR View PostGive us a call when you discover the difference between campaign rhetoric and what can actually pass two houses, get signed at the President's desk, and still stand up to SCOTUS scrutiny.
The people I do not trust and do not like have no political power if I do not vote for them or their political allies, and are substantially obstructed if I vote for their political foes.
Voting for their political allies is a fool's gambit. Biden still has to go to Woke Mob to get political support for anything he wants. He cannot alienate half his party and still expect to govern. That means concessions on things like appointments, executive actions, and legislation. Trump is not beholden to them at all. Trump's various downsides are basically completely checked by the other branches. Maybe he could start a war, but he seems to have no appetite for that.
Plus, maybe you think you can ride this tiger. I sure as hell don't think so. This rodeo is coming to an end in another cycle or two, and you're going to be stuck finding fresh meat to feed the beast, lest you become the next meal.
Also, half your party is still full of complete dimwits who want to take my healthcare and replace it with Harry Potter's Magic Wand. Why would I vote for that? I sure as hell don't hate Trump enough for that."The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck
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Originally posted by GVChamp View PostEndorsements from almost half the Democratic senate caucus and half the Democratic house caucus, endorsed by Presidential Candidates Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris....
"Vote for me, only half my friends are insane and want to destroy your life! I promise they will have no meaningful impact at all on your well being! We have them well contained even though they continually drag our party left every election cycle!"
Not even remotely reassuring.
Honestly I don't think I've seen heads buried this deep into the sand since 2007 when people thought subprime wasn't going to be a big deal.
"I did not like Bernie Sanders..."
"Was he standing?"
"No but...hmm..."
"Oh."
I am sure your children will thank you for not taking any responsibility and being so unconcerned to pass on the liberty you enjoy to them.
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Originally posted by snapper View PostI am sure your children will thank you for not taking any responsibility and being so unconcerned to pass on the liberty you enjoy to them.Chimo
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If some lunatic lefty like Bernie Sanders who wished to restrict the freedom for a person to have private medical insurance were a possibility then I would say his fears were reasonable but Bernie is not an option and his diabolical healthcare schemes have next to no chance of becoming reality. But the same person who is scared of the restriction of his future healthcare choices admits Trumpkin is a threat to his very democratic constitution. It is a case of the imaginary danger - or at the very most a possible future danger - verses a real and present danger. You must survive the first danger to even have a choice about a possible future one.
Sure it is his choice and US 'rules' and I would fight for his freedom to chose as he wishes but the logic and any sense of responsibility is missing when he himself recognises a real and existent danger. When my homeland although it is not in my own native country is threatened I go and do what I can to defend its liberty. It seems strange to me that a person cannot bring themselves to even vote against a danger they recognise and who will not be able to answer such a question from their children who presumably they wish to inherit the same freedoms and opportunities as they enjoy so I must question his seemingly illogical or else totally irresponsible disregard toward future generations. What are we if we fail to pass on as good a life if not better to our children? To wish otherwise is selfish nihilism and as I have children of my own I wonder how they may judge my actions when a real danger exists that could threaten their future. Thus I wonder how his children may consider his proclaimed intention not to even vote against a danger he acknowledges is clear and present.
It is not about who's rules apply - I do not dispute his right to decide as he wishes even if it be irresponsible, selfish or irrational but as one person to another regardless of citizenship or 'rules' I have every right to question his rationality and/or motives which are so alien to me and everyone else who might face a recognised danger.
You Sir are a Canadian and I am a Polish Ukrainian but it has not stopped you commenting on my views regarding events in Ukraine. You are free to think and say what you think and I welcome your thoughts for the most part and most certainly would defend your right to say them. Nor does any 'rule' prohibit you speaking of other peoples views and events in other countries... May I not question this Gentleman's views of events in his own country?
If he or the moderators wish an explanation or an apology for the style of my critique being perhaps too personal or perhaps if he actually has children who may be offended when I intended hypothetical children then naturally I do not mean to cause to offense but merely to question his responsibility toward future generations that will live with the consequences of our his (and all of our) actions/inaction's.
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In 'God, guns and Trump' country, simmering doubts about the president
In this dry stretch of northwestern Arizona, Trump campaign signs dot the desert landscape, and Trump flags fly from the backs of dusty pickup trucks.
Last fall, an event called "Trumpstock" outside the town of Kingman featured a Trump impersonator, a pro-Trump rapper and a menu of “M.A.G.A. Subs." Last month, thousands of people blasted classic rock and circled Lake Havasu in a Trump-themed boat parade.
"This whole area is based around people who have the same thing in common," said Alan Morris, a 36-year-old who participated in the parade. "God, guns and Trump."
Yet now, as the nation confronts the coronavirus pandemic, an economic recession and mass protests against police brutality and racism, some voters in the longtime Republican stronghold of Mohave County have begun to have second thoughts about the president.
“He’s an embarrassment," said Ron Kennedy, 72. "And I voted for him."
A veteran of the Air Force, Kennedy said he had grown wary of the president's blunt style over the last few years. But the turning point for him came this month when protesters outside the White House were pushed back by authorities so Trump could walk to St. John's Episcopal Church to be photographed by news crews.
“It turned me off," Kennedy said. "Breaking up a peaceful protest just for a photo op.”
Recent polls show Trump now trails presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden in the presidential race — a reversal driven in part by the erosion of his once-commanding lead among white voters in battleground states such as Arizona.
To try to shore up support, Trump has visited the state three times in the last five months, including last week for an appearance at a Phoenix megachurch.
In Mohave County, a vast expanse of desert where 90% of the 212,000 residents are white and 73% of the vote went for Trump in 2016, there is still deep support for the president.
But he is facing new challenges here, such as assuaging concerns that he and the federal government have mishandled the coronavirus. The U.S. death toll of more than 127,000 is the highest in the world.
Four years ago, 57-year-old Keith Eaton viewed Trump as a refreshing change — an outsider who didn't speak like a politician and appeared to act based on his gut.
“I just wanted to see what would happen," said Eaton, who told himself: “At the very least it’s gonna be a circus we can watch.”
But Trump's novelty has worn off, he said.
"The lack of leadership with this whole COVID thing, the lack of respect for the professionals that do this stuff ... the last four months have turned me way, way more against him," said Eaton, a firefighter. "There’s no way I would vote for him at this point. And a lot of guys I know feel the same."
Eaton still expects Trump to win Mohave County, though by less of a margin than he did four years ago.
Sam Scarmardo, head of the Mohave County GOP, said that if people have been changing their minds on Trump it's only because of "the left-wingers who are doing everything they can to destroy him and bring the country to its knees."
“A lot of people think coronavirus was blown out of proportion to damage Trump," he said.
Scarmardo said voters in Mohave County have a Wild West mind-set and are naturally drawn to Trump's defense of gun rights, his disdain for government regulation and his vow to stop unauthorized immigration from the Mexican border, which lies 150 miles to the south.
In an interview in the back room of his Lake Havasu City gun store, where his four rescue dogs circled underfoot, he ticked off what he sees as Trump's accomplishments: the rollback of Obama-era clean-energy rules, the movement of the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, new policies that make it harder for migrants to seek asylum in the United States.
"He’s gotten more done than the last 20 presidents," said Scarmardo.
His shop, Sam's Shooter's Emporium, features a life-size cardboard cutout of the president by the front door and a bulletin board that looks like Trump's Twitter feed come to life. One poster questions the legitimacy of President Obama's birth certificate; another compares the hijab worn by U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar to a diaper.
In the bathroom are copies of former First Lady Michelle Obama's autobiography — whose pages are used as toilet paper.
Such unapologetic displays of the kind of bigoted and divisive views embraced by Trump have never been a problem here, said Scarmardo.
"We don't get much argument," he said.
And yet, a few weeks ago, a surprising thing happened down the street from the gun store. A couple dozen people gathered for a Black Lives Matter protest.
More protests were held in Kingman, about 60 miles away.
At each event, participants were outnumbered by counter-protesters, some of whom were armed with rifles.
Government officials who monitored the event said they were less afraid of looting than of the protesters getting shot.
The demonstrations ended peacefully — and even sparked new kinds of soul-searching.
Retired police officer Jeff Page, 57, said the protests made him question whether racial bias had ever played a role in his own policing.
He concluded that it hadn't.
“I did 28 years in law enforcement in Idaho, and I can tell you that there’s not one person that I ever worked with who wanted to go out and find somebody to kill or beat up," he said on a recent afternoon at No Name Bar, a saloon in Lave Havasu City where he, his wife and some friends had gathered for beers.
“It’s been very painful,” Page said of the recent protests.
"It's been horrible," agreed his wife, Victoria.
He plans to vote again for Trump in 2020, but he said that his daughter, who voted for Trump four years ago, is undecided. She works for the local school district and is repelled by the president's immigration policies that make life harder for Latino students and their families.
They have had conversations as a family about the topic, with Jeff arguing that illegal immigration is a law-and-order issue. But those talks don't typically end well.
So the family came up with a solution, said Victoria: "We just don't talk politics."
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The thought that the Electoral College could, once again, rescue Trump from a majority of Americans that want him gone makes me want to vomit.
But at least there's a few people out there willing to own up to their mistake and not repeat it again. That's hopeful.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by WABs_OOE View PostThat is completely uncalled for and out-of-bounds. You have absolutely zero rights and even less privledge telling an American how to use his hard earned right. Their house. Their rules. You owe GVGChamp an apology. He sees a bigger threat in the Democratic Party than Donald Trump and you are NOT the authority to tell him he's wrong and you are certainly NOT the angel to criticize him.
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Originally posted by WABs_OOE View PostThat is completely uncalled for and out-of-bounds. You have absolutely zero rights and even less privledge telling an American how to use his hard earned right. Their house. Their rules. You owe GVGChamp an apology. He sees a bigger threat in the Democratic Party than Donald Trump and you are NOT the authority to tell him he's wrong and you are certainly NOT the angel to criticize him.Originally posted by tbm3fan View PostThen I can put in my 2 cents. Trump is a clear and present danger to the country. The danger he sees in the Democratic Party is misplaced. He pays far, far too much attention to the far end of the Party and completely ignores all those in the middle like me. I OTOH don't worry about that end as their numbers aren't even close to a critical mass. Brings to mind the forest for the tress.
GVChamp's fears are, as you noted, misplaced. The biggest mistake anyone can make this November is voting for anyone but Joe Biden.
Not because he's going to magically fix things. Not because he's even going to fix some things.
It's because he's not Donald Trump and this country cannot withstand the damage of another four years of a man like Donald Trump. Not now. Not anymore.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by tbm3fan View PostThen I can put in my 2 cents. Trump is a clear and present danger to the country. The danger he sees in the Democratic Party is misplaced. He pays far, far too much attention to the far end of the Party and completely ignores all those in the middle like me. I OTOH don't worry about that end as their numbers aren't even close to a critical mass. Brings to mind the forest for the tress.Originally posted by TopHatter View PostSpeaking as a lifelong opponent of the Democratic Party, I agree completely. The danger here is Trump, always has been, always will be.
GVChamp's fears are, as you noted, misplaced. The biggest mistake anyone can make this November is voting for anyone but Joe Biden.
Not because he's going to magically fix things. Not because he's even going to fix some things.
It's because he's not Donald Trump and this country cannot withstand the damage of another four years of a man like Donald Trump. Not now. Not anymore.
No one has the right to tell me what I do for my daughter is wrong and I certainly do not have the right to tell GVChamp he is doing wrong by his children. Whoever says so is out of place and deserves ridicule. Snapper is not American and she has absolutely zero rights and zero privledge telling any American on how to vote or how to provide for his children's future. Misplaced or not, it is for GVChamp to provide for his children as HE SEES BEST and if that means not voting for Biden, that means not voting for Biden.
ANYTHING ELSE IS FAR, FAR, FAR MORE DANGEROUS THAN TRUMP! It is Thought Police!Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 28 Jun 20,, 04:39.Chimo
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