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The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

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  • A day with ‘killology’ police trainer Dave Grossman

    Grossman’s classes teach officers to be less hesitant to use lethal force, urge them to be willing to do it more quickly and teach them how to adopt the mentality of a warrior. Jeronimo Yanez, the Minnesota police officer who shot and killed Philando Castile in July, had attended one of Grossman’s classes called “The Bulletproof Warrior” (though that particular class was taught by Grossman’s business partner, Jim Glennon).
    In the class recorded for “Do Not Resist,” Grossman at one point tells his students that the sex they have after they kill another human being will be the best sex of their lives. The room chuckles. But he’s clearly serious. “Both partners are very invested in some very intense sex,” he says. “There’s not a whole lot of perks that come with this job. You find one, relax and enjoy it.”
    When it comes to teaching cops how to escalate, how to see the world as their enemy and how to find the courage to kill more people, more often, there’s no shortage of options. (The syllabus for one of these courses includes a page of Bible verses relating to when it’s moral and just to kill.) It’s part and parcel with the pseudoscience churned out by William Lewinski at the Force Science Institute in Minnesota, who also preaches that cops should learn to become more lethal (and will testify in court for any cop who takes his advice). I’ve spoken to more than a few sheriffs and police chiefs who want no part of this philosophy, but who also say they can’t really control what their officers do on their own time.
    That’s not the end of it. “More people are signing up with ISIS than we can count,” Grossman says. He predicts a terrorist organization will soon detonate a nuclear bomb off the West Coast. “We have never been more likely to be nuked, and we have never been less prepared!” Terrorists will send “suicide bio-bombers” across the border to spread deadly diseases. “The day will come,” Grossman insists. “Folks, it is very, very bad out there!”
    This is the guy who has trained more U.S. police officers than anyone else. The guy who, more than anyone else, has instructed cops on what mind-set they should bring to their jobs.

    The problem is a lot worse than cops having too many weapons. The most dangerous weapon is in the police officers' minds. And it was put there during their training.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
      I can punch an Indian police constable or officer without the fear of getting shot and killed.
      Don't count on it ; )

      That guy did what you said. Played right into their hands.

      They can screw you over any which way. Why let them ?

      Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
      I've encountered idiot police before and I shut up and did what I was told. The court is the place to fight the police, not out in the streets. I've also ecounterd good police. One guy was even telling me where to go fishing while giving a ticket for speeding.
      Do this instead and you will be ok any where in the world.
      Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Jun 20,, 18:01.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
        Oh for Pete sakes, stop being obtuse. It was Blacks against Koreans during the LA Riots. There were firefights between the two groups. Get rid of the cops and they will go after each other.
        This is a gross oversimplification of those riots in 1992. The background is far more complicated between those two groups. Firefights is also an oversimplification. When Koreatown was attacked on the second night of the riots, after the LAPD abandoned the area, that forced some business owners to defend their businesses. The open gun battles (your term firefight) were between Korean business owners and armed looters. That is very different from Koreans vs. Blacks where the two races had severe misunderstandings of each others culture at the time and that difference fanned by the media. Koreans vs. Blacks sounds like an outright race war which it wasn't as a take away was that Korean owners felt that minorities needed to ban together against a system that doesn't protect any minorities.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
          Antifa has armed groups in 30 states

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_Revolt
          Hmm, well, never a mention in any California based news, that I have read, whether LA or SF. Sounds more midwestern and south not to mention both antifa and altright have many common interests as though they are both oppressed brothers.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
            The problem is a lot worse than cops having too many weapons. The most dangerous weapon is in the police officers' minds. And it was put there during their training.
            Agreed. The threat perception on average, in the US, is higher than elsewhere it would seem.

            This desperate hurry to subdue every suspect as soon as possible.

            Is it justified ? ask a cop

            Comment


            • Do this instead and you will be ok any where in the world.
              complying didn't save George Floyd from being murdered.
              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

              Comment


              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                oracle,



                it's structured differently. Asians usually get the "model minority" badge stuck on them, which is used as a club against other minorities such as blacks.

                of course, that belief doesn't help them get promotions past mid-level management, ie the bamboo ceiling. or prevent them from being episodic victims of hate crimes, like the spate of anti-Asian-American racism following COVID.

                by the way, the Asian-American realization of this inequity is what has really changed over the last 30 years. OoE mentions the LA/Rodney King riots, where you did have Korean shopowners fighting blacks, etc.

                you don't see that at ALL now in this round of protests, in part due to generational shifts-- the second generation better understands the implicit institutional racism.
                I think the difference between 1992 and now is that Asians are much more well-established and have different avenues. The cops aren't simply abandoning Korea Town to burn. Asians also have lawyers that can take their discrimination suits to the highest levels, even against legacy institutions with deep pockets like Harvard.

                Also, you know, people who lived under a military dictatorship and threat of communist invasion all their lives aren't particularly concerned if you call them racist.

                Originally posted by astralis View Post
                GVChamp,



                sure, have modern SWAT and riot control.

                but militarization of the police forces didn't come because of the 1960s protests. it was because of the military surplus program of the late 90s, followed by the post 9-11 security funding and the enormous surplus of GWOT military usage.

                moreover, de-militarization often means -more effective- policing, not less. many of the post-Ferguson reforms involved taking cops out of cruisers and walking the beat instead, to build community trust. walk a neighborhood instead of driving through it, guns ready to rock and roll. that's why many police departments are GIVING UP the MRAPs and the APCs.

                this should be a national practice.
                I doubt that purchasing a MRAP is causing cops to drive around in their cop cars as opposed to walking a beat. Again, highly skeptical this is going to solve anything, and specifically skeptical it will solve the problem of "police beat up protestors" which is a narrow problem that pre-dates any program.
                I agree cops need to do a better job engaging, but I don't see why that means my PD shouldn't buy a MRAP.
                "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  Do this instead and you will be ok any where in the world.
                  Breonna Taylor was asleep
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                    Do this instead and you will be ok any where in the world.
                    Philando Castile voluntarily declared to the officer that he had a licensed firearm with him and that he was not reaching for it, and got shot 7 times for doing that (while there was a little girl and her mother in the car).

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                      This is a gross oversimplification of those riots in 1992. The background is far more complicated between those two groups. Firefights is also an oversimplification. When Koreatown was attacked on the second night of the riots, after the LAPD abandoned the area, that forced some business owners to defend their businesses. The open gun battles (your term firefight) were between Korean business owners and armed looters. That is very different from Koreans vs. Blacks where the two races had severe misunderstandings of each others culture at the time and that difference fanned by the media. Koreans vs. Blacks sounds like an outright race war which it wasn't as a take away was that Korean owners felt that minorities needed to ban together against a system that doesn't protect any minorities.
                      As a former UNPROFOR, my point remains that take away the police, there would be always another "them" as in "us" vs "them." We pissed off both the Croats and the Serbs because we would not let them fight and they fought us instead. Once we got pushed out of the way (Krajina, Srebrenica), they were all too happy to start butchering each other.

                      And the fact that the LAPD left the Koreans to their own device shows just how much the looters didn't give a hoot about another minority.

                      Once the police returned, there was peace between the two groups. Just as we did in OPERATION DELIBERATE FORCE.
                      Chimo

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        Do this instead and you will be ok any where in the world.
                        I definetely would not count on it. UNPROFOR did not have legal jurisdiction to hold and try criminals. We have to hand them over to the local police to deal with. You see the problem with that right off the bat. What we did was to hand Serb criminals to Croat police and Croat criminals to Serb police. The only thing we ensure that they would remain alive because we have records ... but it was not a fun time for any of them.
                        Chimo

                        Comment


                        • If you don't like the results, try to get it suppressed

                          Donald Trump’s Campaign Fires Off Cease-And-Desist Letter To CNN Over Poll That Shows Joe Biden With Wide Lead

                          https://deadline.com/2020/06/donald-...ad-1202955655/

                          President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign sent a cease-and-desist letter to CNN demanding that it retract and apologize for a poll showing Joe Biden with a 14-point lead in the race for the White House.


                          “We stand by our poll,” a CNN spokesperson said.

                          A Trump campaign spokesperson did not immediately return a request for comment, but in the letter, senior legal adviser Jenna Ellis and chief operating officer Michael Glassner write to CNN chief Jeff Zucker that the poll was “designed to mislead American voters through a biased questionnaire and skewed sampling.”

                          “Media polls such as these are designed to manufacture an anti-Trump narrative and misinform and mislead actual voters,” they wrote. “It’s a stunt and a phony poll to cause voter suppression, stifle momentum and enthusiasm for the President, and present a false view generally of the actual support across America for the President.”

                          In their letter, Ellis and Glassner wrote: “According to our independent assessment via the highly respected McLaughlin & Associates, ‘The CNN poll out today is another skewed anti-Trump poll of only 25% Republican. It’s a poll of 1,259 adults — not even registered voters, let alone likely voters. Also, it was done between June 2nd and 5th, before the great economic news from last Friday.’ Further, the questions and topics selected likely biased the poll further.”

                          Trump often has lashed out at polls as “fake,” including those conducted by Fox News. Other polls also show Trump falling behind Biden, some with a smaller but still significant gap. The RealClearPolitics national average of polls on Wednesday shows Biden with an 8.1-point lead.

                          The campaign requested that CNN retract the poll, which was conducted by SSRS, “by publishing a full, fair, and conspicuous retraction, apology, and clarification to correct its misleading conclusions.” They also claim that the poll is defamatory and misleading.

                          In a story on the Trump campaign letter, CNN.com noted that “while it’s accurate that 1,259 adults were reached on landlines or cell phones by a live interviewer for the survey, the 14-point margin by which Trump is trailing Biden came from a question posed only to 1,125 registered voters. It’s typical for polling to sample registered voters rather than likely ones at this stage of the race, as it’s difficult to project whether voters will participate in an election that is five months away.” The cable news network also noted that the 25% sample of Republicans is a percentage that is “consistent with several other major polls that use live telephone interviews, which provide the most reliable snapshot of the race.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                            If you don't like the results, try to get it suppressed

                            Donald Trump’s Campaign Fires Off Cease-And-Desist Letter To CNN Over Poll That Shows Joe Biden With Wide Lead

                            https://deadline.com/2020/06/donald-...ad-1202955655/
                            Maybe he thinks this can be extended to actual election results in November, if necessary. "The Elections are fake news!"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              Maybe he thinks this can be extended to actual election results in November, if necessary. "The Elections are fake news!"
                              You can count on that.

                              I predict (as if it's not already blindingly obvious) that we'll be facing the most dangerous threat to this country since the Civil War, starting on Election Day 2020 and lasting through to Inauguration Day 2021. 78 Days.

                              Trump's reaction to the Election is only one part of it. If he loses, god only knows what he'll do. Hell, even if he doesn't pull any scorched earth tactics, there still has to be a transition...and the Trump "Administration", even on their best day, could fuck up a wet dream and forget the recipe for ice. And that's just for starters.

                              78 days. That's what the future of this Republic could conceivably come down to.

                              Just 78 days.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • Welp, blaming the polls is one way to run a campaign, I suppose.
                                Honestly Trump has no one to blame but himself at this point. The media is absolute shit but there are enough independents and the Democrats are insane enough that any competent GOP candidate should cakewalk this election. GOP's only real hope at this point is that Trump resigns or becomes too ill to run. Though I doubt Mike Pence is popular enough to undo the damage. Maybe Romney.
                                "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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