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The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

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  • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    USPP have jurisdiction over all National Park Service sites in DC area, New York & San Francisco. The National Park Service administers all the federal parks and monuments in the US. Much of DC is federal monument and open spaces....the Mall and all the buildings and monuments around it leap to mind. The George Washington Parkway is an NPS road which parallels the Potomac River on the Virginia side from Great Fall south to Mount Vernon.

    While there have been some instances of police issues you normally hear of the USPP for a positive...reactions to 9-11, the rescue of personnel from a plane crash in the Potomac, etc.

    I don't understand the reticence in this case.
    I thought every state had a police force in US. E.g., LAPD, NYPD. Didn't know ^.

    I also think, and this I think, the left media, in every democratic country have a habit of picking up such kind of incident and mainstreaming it for sensationalism. It sells. Then the right starts to attack the narrative. Instead, why wasn't the narrative on being about justice, reforming the police system, de-arming the police. Sensationalism gave ground to these protests. I am all for peaceful protests, but the left media is shirking its responsibility every passing day, everywhere. People need to be united against all forms of extremes, be it far-left or far-right. I may not like someone's political opinion or leanings, but in no way should I call for him to be harmed.

    Colonel, the far-left in India is much better organised that the far-right. Far-right is still a shadow of the right, and can only shout making their presence felt. Far-left has killed in the 1000s here.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
      80% of the crimes committed on blacks are done by blacks. Who do you think the black victims goto for help? As bad as Floyd is (8 friggin cops on one perp, you would think one of them would be watching how the perp is doing if only to see he isn't bleeding COVID all over them), the streets ain't running blood by cop murders.

      The riots for the most part are controlled. You don't want to see what happens when the police ain't there.
      Reform Colonel, reform. Reform & de-arm. US police scares me from this far. I have had interactions with Met Police in UK. They were thorough professional, and very decent, and I am brown.
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Reform Colonel, reform. Reform & de-arm. US police scares me from this far. I have had interactions with Met Police in UK. They were thorough professional, and very decent, and I am brown.
        Funny to hear that term 'police reform' in an American context. Given how often we use it to refer to our own cops who it is said have not reformed since the colonial era.

        When I was chatting about this elsewhere some person told me well the original purpose of the cops was to catch runaway slaves. SO the Americans need police reform as well.

        Eh?!?! how long ago did the slave era end. NO answer. Racism in America is not a debate. Bye.

        Need reform because people say the cops are too violent. When violence occurs the cops are no where to be seen. So the looting goes on.

        People then ask why didn't they come. Because people complained they were too violent so they were told to stand down.

        When they do show up and get the job done, people post videos saying, see they are so violent. We need change & reform more than ever before.

        I mean this is just an endless no win jerk off isn't it.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Jun 20,, 16:43.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
          Reform Colonel, reform. Reform & de-arm. US police scares me from this far. I have had interactions with Met Police in UK. They were thorough professional, and very decent, and I am brown.
          What makes you think the police in the US is not? MOST police are decent folks. Otherwise, they would be patrolling in APCs, not modified luxury sedans. There are assholes and idiots but they are the minority.

          Reform and de-arm, well that goes right against defund. I don't know any reform program that doesn't cost money and de-arm? You do know that police get their equipment from hand-me-down military or piggy back onto military buys. Any buys specifically for police would be more expensive.

          I've encountered idiot police before and I shut up and did what I was told. The court is the place to fight the police, not out in the streets. I've also ecounterd good police. One guy was even telling me where to go fishing while giving a ticket for speeding.
          Chimo

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post

            Reform and de-arm, well that goes right against defund. I don't know any reform program that doesn't cost money and de-arm? You do know that police get their equipment from hand-me-down military or piggy back onto military buys. Any buys specifically for police would be more expensive.
            Defund, in this case, means moving funds to such things as Reform. And De-Arm means buying or using less military surplus gear, not Re-Arming with other equipment.
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
              Chauvin was doing a legal and standard-practice hold designed to restrain a larger man who was struggling to get out of a police car and suspected of being intoxicated. He was communicating throughout much of the incident and the officers called for an ambulance when there was a concern for his well-being. Unless the state has additional evidence, 2nd degree murder is entirely unwarranted, especially since it requires malice. Involuntary manslaughter if the jury wants to convict to a lesser offense, would be appropriate.

              I don't think there is any reasonable guilty verdict that can be returned on 2 people who are acting to their best knowledge with practically no training.

              I am not particularly concerned about the incident in Buffalo. The way it ended is more "unfortunate" than "ill intent." That's a light shove by a guy putting no body weight into it in order to encourage a man to NOT confront the Riot Police. It ended up bad because, yeah, he is an old 75 year old lanky guy who has no balance. Another officer called in support, as far as I can tell from the video.


              The shooting of a jogger is really damn clear cut, and the woman filing a false police report against a black man she doesn't like is really damn clear cut, because these are both clearly on video and acting outside any reasonable behavior. This is not the case for any of the officers.
              The police chief in his statement said that what Derek Chauvin did was not standard-practice. If it was, it is an even bigger problem since you don't need to be a genius to figure out how easily holding your knee on someone's neck for several minutes can kill a guy yet the police either don't seem to have the mental faculties of a 10 year old or more likely, they just don't give a shit. Its time to stop making excuses for this kind of behavior. That is exactly what the people are angry about.

              And whether or not it was "standard practice" the morons were being told both by people around them as well as the half-choked cries by George Floyd himself that he couldn't breathe. If that doesn't make you at least check if the guy is alright, them you don't have even an ounce of humanity in you and you belong in a straitjacket not a blue uniform.

              Same with the old guy. His skull was clearly cracked and he was bleeding from his head. If you stop your colleague from even bending down to check on him and just keep walking (to "dominate" no doubt) then you don't belong in a blue uniform either.

              American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan treat the local population there better than many American cops do in their own cities. That's what it looks like. And we have plenty of people going "Move along. Nothing to see here. This is just standard practice." Same thing happened after Eric Garner's death too. The cops in that case were no less guilty than Derek Chauvin. Only difference is that the protests after Garner's death were smaller and didn't spread to the entire country. Otherwise they would be behind bars as well. That's the message getting ingrained in the black community's minds.
              Last edited by Firestorm; 09 Jun 20,, 18:18.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                Defund, in this case, means moving funds to such things as Reform. And De-Arm means buying or using less military surplus gear, not Re-Arming with other equipment.
                ^^^^ This. In just two days I have been amazed how many people cannot get the meaning of those words clear in their heads. Seems many equate those two words to = abolish. Do we still have an English education in schools?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                  ^^^^ This. In just two days I have been amazed how many people cannot get the meaning of those words clear in their heads. Seems many equate those two words to = abolish. Do we still have an English education in schools?
                  Well the thing is, they should have really found a better word or phrase than Defund. Did they really think people would not get confused by what they meant? If they came up with the word it falls on them to be clear about what they mean. This is what happens when you try to boil down complex policy changes into a single word.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                    Defund, in this case, means moving funds to such things as Reform. And De-Arm means buying or using less military surplus gear, not Re-Arming with other equipment.
                    It's easy to spout rhetoric but the devil is in the details. What is reform? And where are you going to steal the money from? Sensitivity training? Ok, are we going to fire two cops to pay for that? And I remind you that Police Mandates, including numbers, are established by the Municipality or other Civilian oversight.

                    De-arm? Have you seen ALTRIGHT-ANTIFA standoffs? They were better armed than the mercs in Yugoslavia.
                    Chimo

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                      It's easy to spout rhetoric but the devil is in the details. What is reform? And where are you going to steal the money from? Sensitivity training? Ok, are we going to fire two cops to pay for that? And I remind you that Police Mandates, including numbers, are established by the Municipality or other Civilian oversight.

                      De-arm? Have you seen ALTRIGHT-ANTIFA standoffs? They were better armed than the mercs in Yugoslavia.
                      Sir, this will give you an example of what the goal is, and the potential results. This is about the City of Camden. I visited the Battleship New Jersey museum some years ago, which is located in the City of Camden. "War zone" was a great way to describe what that city looked like. Imagine if guns of the New Jersey had been turned on it, and the magazines emptied, and you have an idea of the view.

                      https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/di...rnd/index.html

                      Camden dissolved its police department to root out corruption.

                      The city's crime rate was among the worst in the US. Within nine square miles and among nearly 75,000 residents, there were over 170 open-air drug markets reported in 2013, county officials told CNN. Violent crime abounded. Police corruption was at the core.

                      Lawsuits filed against the department uncovered that officers routinely planted evidence on suspects, fabricated reports and committed perjury. After the corruption was exposed, courts overturned the convictions of 88 people, the ACLU reported in 2013.

                      So in 2012, officials voted to completely disband the department -- it was beyond reform.

                      And in 2013, the Camden County Police Department officially began its tenure. No other city of Camden's size has done anything quite like it.

                      City officials had two objectives in remaking Camden's police: reduce crippling violent crime and make residents feel safer.

                      Louis Cappelli, Camden County freeholder director (another term for a county-level public official), said the department still has a ways to go, but its efforts over the last seven years have been largely successful.

                      "Back then residents of Camden city absolutely feared the police department and members of the department," he told CNN. "They (the residents) wanted that to change."

                      Violent crimes have dropped 42% in seven years, according to city crime data provided by the department. The crime rate has dropped from 79 per 1,000 to 44 per 1,000, the data shows.

                      Cappelli credits the improvement to new "community-oriented policing," which prizes partnership and problem-solving over violence and punishment.

                      It starts from an officer's first day: When a new recruit joins the force, they're required to knock on the doors of homes in the neighborhood they're assigned to patrol, he said. They introduce themselves and ask neighbors what needs improving.

                      Training emphasizes deescalation, he said, and the department's use of force policy makes clear that deadly force is the last option.

                      Now, police host pop-up barbecues and pull up in Mister Softee trucks to get to know residents, Cappelli said. They host drive-in movie nights -- recently, the movie of choice was "The Lion King" -- along what used to be known as the city's "Heroin Highway."

                      The community-first initiative has made improving diversity within the force a priority, too. Whites are the minority in Camden, so Cappelli said the new department has hired more black and brown officers to serve black and brown residents. (Cappelli didn't have exact numbers for the increase, but said it's improved.)

                      Cappelli said the new department also hired over 100 officers who previously served the dissolved Camden Police Department. They joined the department, which now employs over 400.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • I ran across this encounter. Now imagine if it had been a black couple here instead of this senior white couple in the classic car. In my Cougar Club we have about 18 blacks members with their classic Cougars driving.

                        Comment


                        • ^ Wow the old man is so deadly armed and is in possession of a car full of drugs, no wonder the police thought so. It's plain harassment. Why don't you all sue the police into extinction.
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                            Funny to hear that term 'police reform' in an American context. Given how often we use it to refer to our own cops who it is said have not reformed since the colonial era.

                            When I was chatting about this elsewhere some person told me well the original purpose of the cops was to catch runaway slaves. SO the Americans need police reform as well.

                            Eh?!?! how long ago did the slave era end. NO answer. Racism in America is not a debate. Bye.

                            Need reform because people say the cops are too violent. When violence occurs the cops are no where to be seen. So the looting goes on.

                            People then ask why didn't they come. Because people complained they were too violent so they were told to stand down.

                            When they do show up and get the job done, people post videos saying, see they are so violent. We need change & reform more than ever before.

                            I mean this is just an endless no win jerk off isn't it.
                            I can punch an Indian police constable or officer without the fear of getting shot and killed.

                            Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                            What makes you think the police in the US is not? MOST police are decent folks. Otherwise, they would be patrolling in APCs, not modified luxury sedans. There are assholes and idiots but they are the minority.
                            Not disagreeing with you. Actually, saying US police is unprofessional would mean most white folks in US police are racists since white people outnumber other ethnicities. But I was talking about my experience somewhere else, and I read about police brutality mainly in US, not UK or EU on a regular basis. Whatever idiots are there, should be pruned. There should not be racist people in law enforcement. How to go about doing that Americans should define.

                            Reform and de-arm, well that goes right against defund. I don't know any reform program that doesn't cost money and de-arm? You do know that police get their equipment from hand-me-down military or piggy back onto military buys. Any buys specifically for police would be more expensive.
                            Yeah I know, it started after the Iraq war in 2003. Why does the police need more than a pistol? They are fighting a war? In a typical police station in India, there is 1 SHO (Station House Officer, rank = Inspector), 2-3 Sub-Inspectors, and 8-10 Constables. Only the SHO & SI's carry pistol, constables have to make do with sticks. Assault rifles are locked up in a cupboard and police have to account for every bullet they fire. How do they manage crowds and criminals in India? We are 4 times the size of US population. Just an example I gave, not saying our policing is the best. We need reforms too.

                            First thing is, the police should be made sensitive about ethnicities. Second thing should be reform as in policies. Both this comes under HR policies. Third, would be to dewater policies that says police can kneel on someone's neck or whatever. Fourth, only pistols should be assigned to officers of law. That is reform and de-arming the police force.

                            Where did I say defund? Joe has already explained it, but without reform a day will come when people will trust street thugs over police.

                            I've encountered idiot police before and I shut up and did what I was told. The court is the place to fight the police, not out in the streets. I've also ecounterd good police. One guy was even telling me where to go fishing while giving a ticket for speeding.
                            That experience of yours matches mine. I always shut up and do what I am told, if I come across the police or the para-military. Don't want my name to be in the list of collateral martyrs.
                            Last edited by Oracle; 10 Jun 20,, 01:22.
                            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              Why does the police need more than a pistol? They are fighting a war?


                              No, those were NOT legal nor registered firearms.
                              Chimo

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                                De-arm? Have you seen ALTRIGHT-ANTIFA standoffs? They were better armed than the mercs in Yugoslavia.
                                Sir, I'm fairly certain that the mercs in Yugoslavia had select-fire weapons. The Alt-Right ammosexuals in those pictures aren't likely so equipped.

                                Regarding Antifa, I've yet to see them toting long rifles or even pistols around, certainly nothing like the Alt-Right. Their weapon of choice seems to be basic blunt instruments, like baseball bats and such.
                                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                                Comment

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