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  • same; that, and i'm looking at buying a house soon, and those mortgage rates are already dropping like a rock.

    but i'm speaking from a position of upper-middle class privilege; for the 60% of Americans whom can't pay for an unexpected $1000 expense, life is going to get harder real soon with the upcoming recession.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    • Well Italy has closed of it's northern, and most profitable, part due to this Coronavirus so if other countries have to do the same - say Wall Street, City of London, Hong Kong etc financial centres - what happens then? I am not saying it is going to happen but as an investor and shareholder I am beginning to become concerned.

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      • Trump and Kudlow are both saying that coronavirus is contained and won't hurt the economy.

        now they're looking at emergency aid for shale companies (!), as well as a payroll tax cut double the size of the 2009 stimulus.

        but hey, we're gonna turn into GREECE anytime now, right?
        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

        Comment


        • Trump is no stranger to debt and probably considers it a dear friend. Business wise it was always useful to him and then he could declare bankruptcy to get out from under.

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          • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
            Trump is no stranger to debt and probably considers it a dear friend. Business wise it was always useful to him and then he could declare bankruptcy to get out from under.
            Well, his followers always said they wanted him to run America like a business...they just didn't realize A.) He was going to run it like HIS businesses and B.) Donald Trump is a FAILURE as a businessman.

            But hey, at least he's against abortion, right? Oh yeah, and he's "the anti-lefty". So, good to go.
            Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

            Comment


            • I'm trying to remember if there was ever a time when you could get 50 barrels of oil for one ounce of gold ...

              _ _ _ _ Gold $/oz _ Oil $/bbl _ _ Barrels per Oz

              1950s _ _ _ 35.00 _ _ _ 2.80 _ _ _ _ 12.52
              1960s _ _ _ 35.98 _ _ _ 3.01 _ _ _ _ 11.96
              1970s _ _ 132.27 _ _ _10.01 _ _ _ _13.22
              1980s _ _ 418.27 _ _ _26.51 _ _ _ _15.78
              1990s _ _ 350.96 _ _ _19.70 _ _ _ _17.82
              2000s _ _ 522.02 _ _ _51.11 _ _ _ _10.21
              2010s _ 1,347.13 _ _ 72.45 _ _ _ _ 18.59
              2020 _ 1,588.18 _ _ 60.40 _ _ _ _ _26.29
              Recently
              _ _ _ _ 1,660 _ _ _ _ 30 _ _ _ _ _ _55.33
              Last edited by DOR; 11 Mar 20,, 18:46.
              Trust me?
              I'm an economist!

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              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                as well as a payroll tax cut double the size of the 2009 stimulus.
                Which won't do jackshit for people who lose their job, suffer a loss of hours, or have to stay home without compensation. The people who will be worst off will get nothing.
                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                • yeah, from my own personal standpoint it's great.

                  for actually effectively helping the nation, not so much.

                  beneficiaries of the Trump bailout are the CEOs (billions), followed distantly by the upper middle-class (thousands).
                  There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                  Comment


                  • A payroll tax cut has much against it. One, it comes out in drips every time you get a pay check. Doesn't do much good when you need it NOW. Two, this funds Social Security and so basically Trump is robbing Social Security funds and the Treasury will have to borrow tons just to make up the shortfall. Of course, I could see Trump later say because of the rising debt and because of the lower payroll tax we now need to cut Social Security benefits. I have paid in since 14 and am now 66. Know what that means? It is my 3rd Rail!

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                    • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                      Which won't do jackshit for people who lose their job, suffer a loss of hours, or have to stay home without compensation. The people who will be worst off will get nothing.
                      That's Trumpism, pure and simple.
                      Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

                      Comment


                      • i'd just like to put this here:

                        http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sho...=1#post1058003

                        we're now in bear market territory. the 11-year bull market is finally at a close.

                        IIRC, I mentioned about a year ago that Trump's political survival hinged on not just recreating his near-miraculous 2016 results but actually strengthening them, because the margin of error was so small...and how all of this depended on -everything- going right for him at precisely the right time. no black swans.

                        the black swan is flapping some big wings now.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • With flights to Europe now banned I can't wait for the stock market to open tomorrow. I can just see airline stocks getting hammered at a minimum.

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                          • So, the wife and I are relocating from London to Orlando in a few weeks (family reasons), and today we had the movers over to give us an estimate. As Americans, we expect The Trumpet's Tremendous, Terrific Travel Tantrum won't apply to us, but it is very likely to result in massive flight cancellations. Here's the kicker: we will soon be advised by the UK Home Office when we need to leave, as per our visas, but we will not necessarily have the ability to get to the US.
                            Trust me?
                            I'm an economist!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                              I've been repeating myself, that it's not Trump's doing. He's just riding the economic cycle. As a far right conservative, his economic tool kit is mostly ideologically limited to deregulation and budget cuts. It doesn't matter if they don't work. His farm subsidies is an exception.

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                              • Stock market news live: S&P 500 enters bear market, Dow plunges 10% in biggest one-day percentage drop since 1987

                                U.S. stocks tumbled more than 9% on Thursday, with Wall Street extended its dramatic slide into a bear market as the Dow, S&P 500 and Nasdaq all crashed in response to the global coronavirus crisis.

                                Growing alarm about the severity of the COVID-19 pathogen — and its economic toll — has sent markets into a tailspin that even a half a trillion dollar intervention from the Federal Reserve couldn’t help shake. Weeks of panic-driven selling has dragged blue-chip stocks into bear market territory at a breathtaking pace, of less than a month from peak to trough.

                                David Levy, chairman of the Jerome Levy Forecasting Center, said on Thursday that “the pandemic’s economic disruptions threaten to trigger a global financial crisis that will be worse outside of the United States than 2008-2009.”

                                He added that “several factors make the situation particularly worrisome” — including record debt levels, lack of wiggle room on monetary policy, and major economies that are “squabbling, economically strained...[and] poorly equipped to cope with a global financial crisis that will be especially acute in the now vast EM sector.”

                                By Thursday’s close, the S&P 500 dropped 9.5%, or 260.62 points, in its largest percentage decline since the Black Monday crash of October 19, 1987. The blue-chip index slid more than 20% in total from its recent closing high from mid-February, sending it into a bear market.

                                The Dow’s 9.99% decline Thursday was also the biggest since 1987, and constituted a drop of 2,352.6 points.

                                The Fed’s major infusion of liquidity came as The World Health Organization officially designated the coronavirus outbreak a pandemic on Wednesday, as the virus spread across more than 100 countries and infected well over 100,000 individuals.

                                Amid the heightened market turmoil, the New York Federal Reserve stepped in midday Thursday and announced a major asset purchase program, offering $500 billion in three-month repo operations, an additional $500 billion in one-month operations and another at least $220 billion in operations with durations of two weeks or fewer.

                                The central bank also said its securities purchases would include a range of maturities, to match the composition of the Treasury market. While the announcement briefly helped the three major indices pare intraday losses, stocks still ended sharply in the red.

                                A televised address Wednesday night by President Donald Trump did little except stoke the urge to sell. Trump said he was suspending travel from certain areas of Europe to the U.S. for the next 30 days. He also announced plans for $50 billion of low interest loans to affected businesses and suggested a delay in the April 15 tax filing deadline.

                                However, the speech sparked widespread confusion — and failed to mollify panic-stricken investors. Major benchmarks sank deeper into correction territory at the open, triggering a circuit-breaker during the regular session shortly after 9:30 a.m. ET.

                                “President Trump’s address to the nation was symptomatic of the lack of policy coordination in the face of a global coronavirus pandemic,” Oxford Economics’ Gregory Daco said.

                                “Markets reacted negatively to what was perceived as a solemn but confused speech that placed blame on other nations, omitted to focus on immediate actions to relieve the most affected individuals, and lacked in concrete fiscal and health measures to address the economic and financial impact of the virus,” the analyst added.
                                _______________

                                This is Trump's Chernobyl, Trump's Katrina and if there's any justice in this world, it'll be Trump's END.

                                If only it didn't cost an untold number of lives and untold billions of dollars to finally prove to Trump's followers how horrifically they fucked up by voting for him in 2016 and continuing to blindly support him.

                                To quote myself from another thread:

                                What great leadership looks like: Great speech, measured tone, heavy on solutions, transparency and ideas.

                                Then there's the current dumpster fire in the Oval Office that is not only failing to address the health challenges of the pandemic, but is vandalizing the markets and the economy.

                                Donald Trump does not possess a single attribute of leadership that we need; integrity, honesty, courage, decency, compassion, dignity, honor, intellectual heft, competence or grace. Not a single one.
                                Supporting or defending Donald Trump is such an unforgivable moral failing that it calls every bit of your judgement and character into question. Nothing about you should be trusted if you can look at this man and find redeemable value

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