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Las Vegas Oct 2017 mass shooting

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  • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The Supreme Court Justices knows the distinction and that is the ONLY disntinction that matters, not Joe Public.
    Where in the judgement is this distinction (and don't say "in common use") called out explicitly?

    Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Mihas got it right. California Compliant AR-15: What You Need To Know | AR-15 Lower Parts Kit Co.

    So, EITHER a magazine lock OR a featureless stock makes an AK or a AR NON-RESTRICTIVE and NON-REGISTERED legal.
    Either a rifle with a fixed mag and without the following
    1. Pistol grip that protrudes beneath the action of the weapon
    2. Thumbhole stock
    3. Folding or telescoping stock
    4. Grenade launcher or flare launcher
    5. Flash suppressor
    6. Forward pistol grip


    I have built ARs from stripped lower and parts kits. Forget the genade launcher or flare launcher. What about the others? Yeah, that's not what my ARs look like.

    Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Ok, here's the lithmus test. Would EITHER CA or Mass laws prevented Parkland?
    If the perp a rifle that had limited rounds or needed the upper to be removed? The number of casualties would have been far less.

    Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Oh for Pete sakes! NO! PISTOLS ARE DOING THE MAJORITY OF THE KILLINGS! Why are you NOT going after pistols?
    That is what the GVRO is for.

    You are ignoring the fact that I am also for implementing a strict GVRO. Not the "take guns away, do due process later" type as seems to tbe the current favor of Trump, but a one that makes sense and takes action based on signs of violent behavior, with due process
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
      All Hail Skynet.
      Trump is the one that is calling for aborting due process, not me.
      "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

      Comment


      • Originally posted by antimony View Post
        Where in the judgement is this distinction (and don't say "in common use") called out explicitly?
        The AR action is not deemed illegal by Feds, CA, nor Mass and that's the only thing that matters. Anything else is cosmetics.

        Originally posted by antimony View Post
        I have built ARs from stripped lower and parts kits. Forget the genade launcher or flare launcher. What about the others? Yeah, that's not what my ARs look like.
        Still fully functional and effective ARs.

        Originally posted by antimony View Post
        If the perp a rifle that had limited rounds
        We fought 2 World Wars and the Korean War with 10 round clips and the M16 was issued with 10 round Mags in Vietnam.

        Originally posted by antimony View Post
        or needed the upper to be removed?


        And this is a fully legal non-registered CA compliant AR with detachable mag WITHOUT needing to unhinge the upper

        http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w...rs_15-tfb.jpeg

        Originally posted by antimony View Post
        The number of casualties would have been far less.
        Actual military history says otherwise.

        Originally posted by antimony View Post
        That is what the GVRO is for.

        You are ignoring the fact that I am also for implementing a strict GVRO. Not the "take guns away, do due process later" type as seems to tbe the current favor of Trump, but a one that makes sense and takes action based on signs of violent behavior, with due process
        Those laws are already on the books. It's NOT gun laws you need revamping. It's Privacy and Medical Diganose Records you need access to. If family members cannot get a doctor's ok, what the hell is anyone supposed to do. Hearing "I want to see blacks dead" is not enough.

        ALSO, you HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH the school shootings. We're NOT just talking mentally disturbed kids. A lot of school shootings are gang related. Turf wars, drug deals gone bad, and drive by shootings. Tell me, how are GUN LAWS going to stop them from acquiring firearms? They're dealing with illegal drugs worth $100,000+, you think they don't smuggle in a few guns?

        If your goal is to reduce schools shootings, you are concentrating on an extremely small subset. The Rambo-Wannabes with suicide-by-cop plans and ignoring the much bigger danger: the pissed off gangster looking to even the score.

        Originally posted by antimony View Post
        Trump is the one that is calling for aborting due process, not me.
        Not sure what you're answering on this one. I was answering Tantalus post about using drones to monitor and disarm violent indivdiuals.

        Thus, the Skynet reference
        Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 03 Mar 18,, 00:53.
        Chimo

        Comment


        • OK. Ive been doing some research and if, as has been argued the 'hardening' of schools against mass shootings is the option selected then I think I have figured out exactly what US educational infrastructure is going to look like in 20 years time.


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          Last edited by Monash; 03 Mar 18,, 05:31.
          If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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          • I'm not weighing in one way or the other on the assault weapon debate, but for people who really want an assault rifle, even if they were banned, they can always make one the old-fashioned way.

            The M1 Enforcer:



            The Enforcer is made by taking a surplus M1 Carbine, sawing off the shoulder stock, sawing off part of the barrel, and adding a pistol grip. These were pretty popular post-WWII before the advent of the AR-15 into the market, either as a DIY or buying one from a mail order catalogue.

            People who really want to get their hands on an assault-type semi-auto rifle can just take any semi-auto long rifle or battle rifle and modify it with some minor woodworking skills. Only downside is the gun sights are rendered useless. But any limits on assault rifle legality can easily be contravened by someone intent on having one.

            Not sure if the modifications used to make an Enforcer-type rifle would class it as an illegal firearm or not. But buying a $100 surplus rifle off the rack at any large gun store, and a few hours of one's time is all it takes.
            Last edited by Ironduke; 03 Mar 18,, 23:29.
            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

            Comment


            • If you really want it to, make a STEN. It's easy and cheap and extremely prone to involuntary firing. There's an old saying. Don't have a grenade? Cock a STEN and throw it in the room.
              Chimo

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                I'm not weighing in one way or the other on the assault weapon debate, but for people who really want an assault rifle, even if they were banned, they can always make one the old-fashioned way.

                The M1 Enforcer:



                The Enforcer is made by taking a surplus M1 Carbine, sawing off the shoulder stock, sawing off part of the barrel, and adding a pistol grip. These were pretty popular post-WWII before the advent of the AR-15 into the market, either as a DIY or buying one from a mail order catalogue.

                People who really want to get their hands on an assault-type semi-auto rifle can just take any semi-auto long rifle or battle rifle and modify it with some minor woodworking skills. Only downside is the gun sights are rendered useless. But any limits on assault rifle legality can easily be contravened by someone intent on having one.

                Not sure if the modifications used to make an Enforcer-type rifle would class it as an illegal firearm or not. But buying a $100 surplus rifle off the rack at any large gun store, and a few hours of one's time is all it takes.
                converting a rifle into a pistol is indeed very illegal.
                The only legal Enforcer has to be constructed on a virgin receiver.
                Last edited by surfgun; 04 Mar 18,, 05:05.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post


                  The Enforcer is made by taking a surplus M1 Carbine, sawing off the shoulder stock, sawing off part of the barrel, and adding a pistol grip. These were pretty popular post-WWII before the advent of the AR-15 into the market, either as a DIY or buying one from a mail order catalogue.
                  Seems like a waste of what is a perfectly good carbine in exchange for a bastardized machine pistol. -given the M1 is light weight and relatively short to begin with. Why not just shorten the barrel and end it there. Although IMO even that is is somewhat unnecessary sacrilege.
                  Last edited by Monash; 04 Mar 18,, 11:16.
                  If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

                  Comment


                  • Technically a carbine pistol.

                    My broader point is that even inexpensive surplus guns can be modified easily to get around any bans on form, for those willing to break the law.
                    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                    Comment


                    • Florida lawmakers punish NRA’s corporate foes

                      TALLAHASSEE — Gun-rights Republicans in the Florida House are starting to punish Enterprise Rent-A-Car and Delta Airlines after the corporations severed ties with the National Rifle Association.

                      Over the past 24 hours, Florida lawmakers, borrowing from counterparts in Georgia, have targeted an aviation fuel tax reduction benefiting Delta and proposed late night budget language to rebid a state rental car contract held by Enterprise. The Enterprise contract is not set to expire until September 2020.
                      https://www.politico.com/states/flor...te-foes-291414
                      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                      Comment


                      • When one brings up the M-1 Carbine. One may as well mention the Remington semi auto rifles of the very early 20th Century. Available with 15 round magazines and in the powerful .35 Remington cartridge.
                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_8
                        The Mauser broomhandle model of 1896 “Assault pistol” or even a pair of Henry Repeating Carbines of the Civil War era is cabable of comparable mayhem with their 15 round magazines.

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                        • https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...5f3_story.html

                          On Valentine’s Day, at the same time police say another angry teen, Nikolas Cruz, slaughtered 17 people at a Parkland, Fla., high school with a semiautomatic AR-15, Jesse was sitting in a South Carolina courtroom, waiting to find out whether he would be tried as an adult for a 2016 rampage that left his father and a 6-year-old dead....

                          Seven hours after he was pinned to the ground outside Townville Elementary by a volunteer firefighter, Jesse acknowledged in an interview with investigators that he’d shot far fewer kids than he’d intended. The problem, he explained, was the weapon. He’d only had access to the .40-caliber pistol his father kept in a dresser drawer. It had jammed on the playground, just 12 seconds after he first pulled the trigger.

                          The weapon Jesse really wanted, the one he’d tried desperately to get, was, the teenager believed, locked in his father’s gun safe: the Ruger Mini-14, a semiautomatic rifle much like the gun that, 17 months later, was fired again and again at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, during one of the deadliest school shootings in U.S. history.
                          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                          • How a father has failed so much that his son got so much hate to kill him and then proceed to punish all those around him.
                            Chimo

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                              A right is something that can never be taken away. But all "rights" even in a democracy are merely privileges. Even the most fundamental right of voting can be taken away under some circumstances (felony conviction). The Japanese americans even had their right to liberty taken away merely because they were Japanese.

                              Taking away gun ownership rights (for ALL kinds of guns) from people who are deemed unstable or a threat (failing deep background checks, history of domestic abuse, mental health issues etc.) should be trivial by comparison. That is if the politicians weren't beholden to the NRA.

                              There are so many guns already out on the streets that these laws being talked about for restricting certain kinds of weapons are merely a bandaid even if they are passed (which is still up in the air). What the US really needs is an Australia like buyback program if you want to see a drastic fall in these incidents. But of course if that is seriously considered, it will lead to the 2nd American Civil war which will be over very quickly since one side will have all the guns.
                              From what I understand, most of these obvious restrictions are in place. In the US, if you are convicted of domestic violence, you cannot get a gun?
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domest...#Court_history
                              Felony convictions haven't been able to get a gun since the 60s.


                              There's an instant background check on the majority of purchases, but if the government can't find a reason to keep you from getting a gun after 3 days, the government can't restrict you. There are lapses in the system, but there are lapses in any system. Also doesn't apply to all transactions, and maybe that needs to be tightened up, but if one farmer wants to sell his rifle to another farmer to deal with his coyote problem, that's really not something DC needs to be concerned about.
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...d_Check_System

                              I believe some people that have certain mental health illnesses also cannot get guns. Again, subject to the system working correctly. The VA Tech shooter might not have been legally allowed to purchase weapons, since he was apparently adjudicated as mentally defective.

                              There's probably room for some wiggling around the edges, but the broad strokes are already there.
                              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                              Comment


                              • Gunman takes hostages at veterans home in Yountville

                                There is an active shooter and a hostage situation at the Veterans Home of California in Yountville, the California Highway Patrol reports on Twitter.

                                Citing the Highway Patrol, CNN affiliates in Northern California report the gunman is holding three hostages at the veterans home in Napa Valley, north of San Francisco.

                                "CHP is working with Napa County Sheriff's Office to establish a perimeter and clear buildings," the Highway Patrol said on Twitter.

                                At a brief news conference, patrol spokesman Sgt. Robert Nacke said he knew of no injuries. He said a hotline will be set up for people to obtain information about relatives inside the home.

                                He did not identify the gunman or provide a motive.

                                The California Department of Veterans (CalVet), which operates the home, said it enacted its emergency protocol. Police have surrounded the facility and are telling people to avoid the area.
                                https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/09/us/gu...ome/index.html
                                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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