Las Vegas Oct 2017 mass shooting

[Officer of Engineers]

Good question. In the short run, we need something iike this, which has conservative support.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...consider-grvo/

So you admit that your new law will have ZERO practical effect and is just a feel good "do something but accomplish nothing" type of thing. We call that dictatorship.

I would support creating a gun watch list whcih encompasses things like violent behavior, presence on other watch lists. Also, WA state has passed a measure by which close relatives or friends can request taking guns away from someone with dangerous behavior. I would support that too.

Political football. The Democrats are going to kill this because they want something more like magazine size. They say a watch list is not enough. The Republicans are blaming the Democrats for killing a gun control law and the Democrats are blaming the Republicans for babysteps when big strides are needed.

Again, my goal is not to ban semi-autos, but to register them like we have registered autos.

Not Consitutional. Criminals with access to this type of firearms (North Hollywood) while denying law abiding citizens an effective means of self defence.

[antimony]

It would help greatly if you actually quote THE WHOLE THING



You CANNOT pick and choose which part of the decision you want to enforce. This is a SC decision and as such, you could not deny semi-autos nor phasers when they come into common use.

Sorry but Hellar actually go AGAINST what you want. Heller FORBIDS you to deny RESTRICT "common use" firearms like it's done full auto.

And no, you are NOT allow to write new laws to overturn Heller; not without a Consitutional Amendment.

I do not think that is how the blue states are seeing it. Are you telling me that the CA and MD laws regarding restrictions or registration of assault weapons (hate that term) goes against the 2A and Heller? Heller was in 2008, the MD law was 2017. It has not been successfully challenged

[surfgun]

Maryland bites. Productive people that don’t work for the Feds, are fleeing. The future outlook, should include more prisons or chaos will reign.

[Officer of Engineers]

I do not think that is how the blue states are seeing it. Are you telling me that the CA and MD laws regarding restrictions or registration of assault weapons (hate that term) goes against the 2A and Heller? Heller was in 2008, the MD law was 2017. It has not been successfully challenged

That's not what you said. You said, registering semi-auto like fully auto. Fully auto's registry was closed as of 1986. Except for police and military, civilians cannot acquire new automatic firearms. The ones currently in the US can be sold and resold but you cannot buy one fresh off the rack. They are NOT of common use.

Both MD and CA laws DO NOT restrict such new ownership. You can still legally buy AR15s with fixed 10 round magazines and no pistol grips/thumb holes and do not have to register. BTW, workarounds are already on the market.

[antimony]

That's not what you said. You said, registering semi-auto like fully auto. Fully auto's registry was closed as of 1986. Except for police and military, civilians cannot acquire new automatic firearms. The ones currently in the US can be sold and resold but you cannot buy one fresh off the rack. They are NOT of common use.

OK, I did not know about the closed registry. I thought that a civilian could still get one but needed to pay the special NFA tax. Full autos have never been a fascination for me, so I have not bothered to check regulations around them

Both MD and CA laws DO NOT restrict such new ownership. You can still legally buy AR15s with fixed 10 round magazines and no pistol grips/thumb holes and do not have to register. BTW, workarounds are already on the market.

They do put restrictions on "traditional AR15" which are "assault rifles" and far more common than AR15s without pistol grips. In my mind that violates your definition and understanding of "in common use". In other words, they have successfully restricted the sale of arms which you would consider "in common use".

Here is the problem - Heller has left a lot of leeway in the definition. What is "dangerous and unusual weapon" to some may be "in common use at the time" for another. The decider will be the political environment.

[Officer of Engineers]

They do put restrictions on "traditional AR15" which are "assault rifles" and far more common than AR15s without pistol grips. In my mind that violates your definition and understanding of "in common use". In other words, they have successfully restricted the sale of arms which you would consider "in common use".

In other words, CA and Mass are restricting cosemetics. As far as I'm concerned, it's still an ArmaLite action and that it's the only definition that matters. Anything else is cosemetics.

Here is the problem - Heller has left a lot of leeway in the definition. What is "dangerous and unusual weapon" to some may be "in common use at the time" for another. The decider will be the political environment.

For kicks, here is what still legal in CA and without restrictions

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/california-legal.html

BTW, CA and Mass have tougher gun laws than Canada.

[Officer of Engineers]

OK, I did not know about the closed registry. I thought that a civilian could still get one but needed to pay the special NFA tax. Full autos have never been a fascination for me, so I have not bothered to check regulations around them



They do put restrictions on "traditional AR15" which are "assault rifles" and far more common than AR15s without pistol grips. In my mind that violates your definition and understanding of "in common use". In other words, they have successfully restricted the sale of arms which you would consider "in common use".

Here is the problem - Heller has left a lot of leeway in the definition. What is "dangerous and unusual weapon" to some may be "in common use at the time" for another. The decider will be the political environment.

Tell me something. Why are you so fixiated on semi-auto long arms? If school shootings worry you, then you should be thinking sidearms. Sidearms has done more school shootings than any other, even from 2010s on.

And this brings to my main point. If firearms in general is a threat to your schools, then short of paying to fortifying your schools, some Constitutional Rights got to give and you Americans must be brave enough to make those hard choices.

[astralis]

some Constitutional Rights got to give

there is plenty of leeway in the existing interpretation of Constitutional rights that a significant number of things can be done short of "abolish the 2nd Amendment" or even "amend the 2nd Amendment".

[antimony]

Tell me something. Why are you so fixiated on semi-auto long arms? If school shootings worry you, then you should be thinking sidearms. Sidearms has done more school shootings than any other, even from 2010s on.

And this brings to my main point. If firearms in general is a threat to your schools, then short of paying to fortifying your schools, some Constitutional Rights got to give and you Americans must be brave enough to make those hard choices.

Because the term assault rifle is bullshit. These rifles that are doing the killing are semi-autos that have a higher rate of fire than bolt or pump or lever actions and can be turned to full auto rate with trigger or stock modifications

[antimony]

In other words, CA and Mass are restricting cosemetics. As far as I'm concerned, it's still an ArmaLite action and that it's the only definition that matters. Anything else is cosemetics.

No, the point is that the CA/ MD legislatures were able to ban/ restrict/ regulate arms "in common use". You and I are talking about "Armalite" and "semi-auto". Joe Public is not even aware of the distinction

For kicks, here is what still legal in CA and without restrictions

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/california-legal.html

What's the point? These are legal as long they are registered, right? I assume they have some kind of magazine restrictions as well as that "bullet button" thing

BTW, CA and Mass have tougher gun laws than Canada.

Exactly, and they got away with it.

[Mihais]

Nope.If it's ''featureless'' it has no restrictions and no registration.It's not an assault weapon.Featureless means making it look ugly as sin.Still functionally the same tool.

[Officer of Engineers]

No, the point is that the CA/ MD legislatures were able to ban/ restrict/ regulate arms "in common use". You and I are talking about "Armalite" and "semi-auto". Joe Public is not even aware of the distinction

The Supreme Court Justices knows the distinction and that is the ONLY disntinction that matters, not Joe Public.

What's the point? These are legal as long they are registered, right? I assume they have some kind of magazine restrictions as well as that "bullet button" thing

Mihas got it right. California Compliant AR-15: What You Need To Know | AR-15 Lower Parts Kit Co.

So, EITHER a magazine lock OR a featureless stock makes an AK or a AR NON-RESTRICTIVE and NON-REGISTERED legal.

Exactly, and they got away with it.

Ok, here's the lithmus test. Would EITHER CA or Mass laws prevented Parkland?

Because the term assault rifle is bullshit. These rifles that are doing the killing are semi-autos that have a higher rate of fire than bolt or pump or lever actions and can be turned to full auto rate with trigger or stock modifications

Oh for Pete sakes! NO! PISTOLS ARE DOING THE MAJORITY OF THE KILLINGS! Why are you NOT going after pistols?

[Firestorm]

A right is something that can never be taken away. But all "rights" even in a democracy are merely privileges. Even the most fundamental right of voting can be taken away under some circumstances (felony conviction). The Japanese americans even had their right to liberty taken away merely because they were Japanese.

Taking away gun ownership rights (for ALL kinds of guns) from people who are deemed unstable or a threat (failing deep background checks, history of domestic abuse, mental health issues etc.) should be trivial by comparison. That is if the politicians weren't beholden to the NRA.

There are so many guns already out on the streets that these laws being talked about for restricting certain kinds of weapons are merely a bandaid even if they are passed (which is still up in the air). What the US really needs is an Australia like buyback program if you want to see a drastic fall in these incidents. But of course if that is seriously considered, it will lead to the 2nd American Civil war which will be over very quickly since one side will have all the guns.

[tantalus]

Not american but US gun laws don't make any sense imo. Changing them is a tricky matter I appreciate, but I would have thought if you could stop it in schools you are just pushing the problem elsewhere.

I am also curious about projecting forward though. Can people imagine a partial (but significant fix) originating from using autonomous drones that can monitor and detect relavant conspicuous behaviour and attack shooters (they could even shoot to render unconscious) ? Seems to me most of the tech is already available and we can expect a widespread economic application available in the coming decades, maybe years?

I appreciate no such tech fixes are available currently but it will be difficult to convince people for change if they begin to emerge.

[Officer of Engineers]

All Hail Skynet.