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  • The suspicious part about Trump's conversation with Comey is that he asked everyone else to leave the room. He clearly knew his action was inappropriate. This is congruous with notion that Trump chose indirect wording to maintain plausible deniability.

    In any case, Trump should resign. It is clear that he has lost the people's confidence

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    • Originally posted by hboGYT View Post
      The suspicious part about Trump's conversation with Comey is that he asked everyone else to leave the room. He clearly knew his action was inappropriate. This is congruous with notion that Trump chose indirect wording to maintain plausible deniability.

      In any case, Trump should resign. It is clear that he has lost the people's confidence
      The guy who has shown time and again he has no filter between brain and mouth suddenly becomes a master wordsmith to skillfully tread the line.... ok. Sure.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Wooglin View Post
        The guy who has shown time and again he has no filter between brain and mouth suddenly becomes a master wordsmith to skillfully tread the line.... ok. Sure.
        That he thought he could shield himself sufficiently by asking Comey to drop the Flynn investigation in a roundabout way - an incorrect assessment, only adds to his track record of poor judgement. I think my story is more convincing than yours.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post
          so you have the evidence of this collusion that no one else has?????

          awesome! about time we got some facts in this case.

          so what are they?

          what is your evidence and your knowledge of this collusion? and when will you be testifying before congress, I am sure they are eager for actual facts.
          Sir I have had far more dealings in these and other such matters in the past than I can reasonably guess you have - if I am wrong forgive me for the presumption. I am not obliged to the US or any of it's institutions and would decline any offer to testify before some committee of politicians as the country to which I am honoured to owe allegiance to has been in the field against the Muscovites and their proxies for three years and I do not think it may be wise in my own future interests.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
            What did Comey leak?

            He released his account of conversations he had with Trump. Only after Trump characterized him as a liar, nutjob, and claimed via Twitter that Comey engaged in incriminating actions during the meetings and phone calls that Trump initiated.

            Comey simply got his side of the story out, after Trump attempted to pre-emptively assassinate Comey's character.

            There's a vast difference between leaking national security secrets (and Comey leaked none) and getting your side of the story out after a highly publicized evisceration, that Trump himself initiated in the wake of Comey's firing, and responding to attempts at character asassassination.

            Comey merely stood up for himself and his reputation.
            Comey leaked government notes, not his. All his work product belonged to the FBI/DoJ or was protected executive branch communications. He violated the federal record keeping act which is a felony and may have leaked classified information. He was not a classification authority to decide what level of classification his memos should have been afforded.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by hboGYT View Post
              That he thought he could shield himself sufficiently by asking Comey to drop the Flynn investigation in a roundabout way - an incorrect assessment, only adds to his track record of poor judgement. I think my story is more convincing than yours.
              He could have ordered Comey to drop it via twitter post and it would still be legal. All executive power resides in the person and office of the president and is delegated from him. It might run counter to tradition and policy, but it would not run counter to law. The president holds the power of pardon. No one gets prosecuted let alone convicted for a federal crime without his tacit consent.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                He could have ordered Comey to drop it via twitter post and it would still be legal. All executive power resides in the person and office of the president and is delegated from him. It might run counter to tradition and policy, but it would not run counter to law. The president holds the power of pardon. No one gets prosecuted let alone convicted for a federal crime without his tacit consent.
                I don't really care whether it's legal or not, only whether it's impeachable or not. An action doesn't need to be illegal to be impeachable. Otherwise a president can just pardon himself constantly pardon himself and be immune from impeachment.

                Comment


                • z,

                  Comey leaked government notes, not his. All his work product belonged to the FBI/DoJ or was protected executive branch communications. He violated the federal record keeping act which is a felony and may have leaked classified information. He was not a classification authority to decide what level of classification his memos should have been afforded.
                  there was nothing classified.

                  Trump hasn't asserted executive privilege on the memos, or the testimony-- and he referred to the conversations with Comey when he fired the man, which heavily weakens the executive privilege argument.

                  and if these notes were Comey's private notes and not written on an official FBI form or as part of a FBI investigation, then no, it would not belong to the FBI/DOJ.

                  bottom-line, if there were a serious case against Comey here, Trump and the DOJ would have acted on it. they don't, so they won't-- and Trump will just continue to snipe from Twitter.
                  There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                  Comment


                  • hboGYT,

                    Otherwise a president can just pardon himself constantly pardon himself and be immune from impeachment.
                    that's one of the exceptions to the powers of pardon.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      Comey leaked government notes, not his. All his work product belonged to the FBI/DoJ or was protected executive branch communications. He violated the federal record keeping act which is a felony and may have leaked classified information. He was not a classification authority to decide what level of classification his memos should have been afforded.
                      So, Comey was in a no-win situation.
                      Assuming -- a huge assumption -- that he was formally ordered by POTUS to deny access to his notes to the Senate Intelligence Committee, and compelled to provide testimony to that same committee, it would appear from your assessment that he is going to federal prison just because he was caught between two felonies.

                      Is that your understanding?
                      Do you have a copy of that POTUS order?
                      Trust me?
                      I'm an economist!

                      Comment


                      • https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.37db0733057b

                        Comment


                        • It cannot be possible that any man (or Lady) engaged in some official state business of any kind is not permitted to keep their own private notes or speak to their private friends or family in any matter whatsoever regarding the Governments policies and problems. It would disclude any private life or thoughts of those employed by any Government.

                          The question is why Comey was removed from office and on that - from Trump - we have had three versions which do not agree. Now it rumoured apparently that 'special counsel' Mueller is to be dismissed. How much obstruction of an investigation into a matter of serious national security will be permitted before Congress acts?
                          Last edited by snapper; 14 Jun 17,, 11:21.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                            Sir I have had far more dealings in these and other such matters in the past than I can reasonably guess you have - if I am wrong forgive me for the presumption. I am not obliged to the US or any of it's institutions and would decline any offer to testify before some committee of politicians as the country to which I am honoured to owe allegiance to has been in the field against the Muscovites and their proxies for three years and I do not think it may be wise in my own future interests.
                            so you have nothing then.

                            because so in I don't even know how many investigations that have been going on for I don't even know how long, no one else has come up with anything either.

                            so far all you have done is expressed paranoia and conspiracy theories, nothing else.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                              z,



                              there was nothing classified.

                              Trump hasn't asserted executive privilege on the memos, or the testimony-- and he referred to the conversations with Comey when he fired the man, which heavily weakens the executive privilege argument.

                              and if these notes were Comey's private notes and not written on an official FBI form or as part of a FBI investigation, then no, it would not belong to the FBI/DOJ.

                              bottom-line, if there were a serious case against Comey here, Trump and the DOJ would have acted on it. they don't, so they won't-- and Trump will just continue to snipe from Twitter.
                              It would not need to be on an FBI form! If he typed it on a government computer, typewriter or government issued paper, It was government property.

                              Comment


                              • surfgun,

                                It would not need to be on an FBI form! If he typed it on a government computer, typewriter or government issued paper, It was government property.
                                if they're not part of the official investigation, then the relevant statute is 18 U.S. Code 641.

                                https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/641

                                Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, or any property made or being made under contract for the United States or any department or agency thereof; or

                                Whoever receives, conceals, or retains the same with intent to convert it to his use or gain, knowing it to have been embezzled, stolen, purloined or converted—

                                Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; but if the value of such property in the aggregate, combining amounts from all the counts for which the defendant is convicted in a single case, does not exceed the sum of $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
                                aka did Comey make money off this.

                                to put it mildly, this is not a strong legal argument. again, there's a reason why no one is pushing full steam ahead on pursuing a legal case against Comey's actions.
                                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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