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  • YF,

    So he wants to work with Russia same as Obama did earlier in his administration.

    That proves it.

    He's a spy.
    you're moving to a different tangent.

    going back to our original argument:

    you say that all the evidence is circumstantial. i say it isn't, just on the basis of the administration's actions alone.

    circumstantial evidence wouldn't have caused Trump associates to either resign or get fired. it wouldn't have caused Trump to re-think how close he wants to be with Putin.

    this is not to say that "all evidence points to Trump being owned by Putin", or whatever strawman it is that you have set up. i agree, what we see is not evidence for impeachment. but as it stands, right now, it's more than circumstantial. fair?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

    Comment


    • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
      No problemo.

      OK EVERYBODY WE DROP EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW
      ..NO MORE FAKE NEWS


      NO MORE TRUMP!

      WE TURN EVERY SUBJECT INTO THE BAD THINGS RUSSIAN DID TO THE UKRAINE!

      Snapper, we can leave the Russian abuse of countries, and there are many of them, for different threads.
      If you ever grow up and wish to enter to rational discussion get back to me.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by astralis View Post
        this is not to say that "all evidence points to Trump being owned by Putin", or whatever strawman it is that you have set up. i agree, what we see is not evidence for impeachment. but as it stands, right now, it's more than circumstantial. fair?
        Well...no.

        This whole thing started down this merry path because someone in Obama administration leaked something (most likely illegally) to a press that was more than willing to print whatever crap came down their way because they share an ideology that is 100% in sync with the Democrats.

        So what evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, is there right now of a collusion?

        I asking you sincerely.

        All we have is this drip drip "Trump associate met with Russian in 2013 (or whatever date) in whatever country"
        headlines.

        I can honestly say I met a Russian KGB offical since my sister's neighbor is a retired desk weenie who use to ride a typewriter in the KGB back in the 80's.

        Please list these so called circumstantial evidence so I can decide one way or the other because quite frankly, I see none except a desperate party and a willing media that is both heavily invested in watching this guy fail.
        Last edited by YellowFever; 05 Apr 17,, 23:06.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by snapper View Post
          If you ever grow up and wish to enter to rational discussion get back to me.
          Great!

          I'll call on you when I want to discuss the dastardly Russians abusing Ukraine and Syria.

          In the meantime please let us discuss fake news here in peace.

          Comment


          • http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public...f_russia_probe

            Let's do it.

            Let's put everybody into this.

            Comment


            • Without bothering to all the previous links I've already put up.....

              DNC gets hacked.

              Meme develops claiming it was the Russians.

              Trump says "cool, can they hack some more :big grin:

              Dems say "see, he's working with the Russians."

              Site admin for DNC is gunned down near his home but nothing is stolen.

              Independent security site claims it recognises attributes of the code as being Russian, and some of the coding contains Cyrillic metadata.

              Gucifer2 claims responsibility and says he's Ukrainian, in an interview interviewer claims "he sounds more Russian to me".

              Gucifer2 releases Podesta's emails, apparently in retaliation for being called Russian.

              The invisible international security expert culls various reports including one from 4chan where trump gets a variation of golden showers from Russian prositutes on a bed the Obama's slept in and compiles them for the rump Republican never-trumpers, including McCain, who disseminates it far and wide.

              FBI launches investigation into Trump team's possible involvement with Russians, but does not, repeat not, intercept any Trump team communications.

              Various other security experts discount the claim code is specifically Russian, saying it can be found anywhere on the interwebs, including Cyrillic metadata.

              At some point various politicians institute various inquiries that have no end date and no apparent questions but which enable various politicians to make weekly speeches saying their point of view whilst claiming they'll get to the bottom of it.

              NYT, WAPO and the Guardian simultaneously release claims intercepts of Trumps team show collusion with Russians.

              NYT, WAPO and the Guardian simultaneously release claims Obama team hurriedly disseminating intercepts of Trumps team so when they come to power they can't hide their collusion with Russians.

              Nunes gets information Obama team collated unmasked Trump Team intercepts (freely available from your friendly NSA home depot), but these records are only available on the White House servers and not the Congress ones.

              Russians/Trump.
              Trump/Russians.
              Everyone who isn't a TDSS* is a Russian.
              Flynn is a Russian, and resigns after misleading Pence by saying he's not a Russian. Turns out later he's a Turk.

              Some shock jock (Hannity) compiles all newspaper claims that Obama team intercepts Trump team communications.

              Trump tweets Obama wiretapped him and what an arsehole thing to do.

              Everyone from TDSS screams at Trump, "what how dare you, Saint Obama would never do such a thing"

              NYT, WAPO and the Guardian simultaneously deny Obama team intercepted, collated and disseminated intercepts of Trumps team, whilst linking to the previous articles that said Obama's team did do this, but claim Trumps a liar, not them, because Trump said "wiretapped".

              Cue two more weeks of
              Russians/Trump.
              Trump/Russians.
              Everyone who isn't a TDSS* is a Russian.
              Trumps a Liar. That's with a big L. Liar liar pants on fire.

              Nunes gets two senior White House staff to log onto the White House server and show him the intercepts (McAlister is involved in this but not sure how yet)

              Nunes tells Trump, who says "I told you so" in a bad font twitter.

              TDSS go mad, say Nunes made it all up, it's White House fake news and Nunes must resign immediately.

              Schiff views same documents and immediately submerges and goes on silent running, though asdic operators think they can hear someone singing the Volga Boatmen song.

              Right wing nutcase wingnut islamophobic racist transphobic white KKK paedophile old dead white men pseudo journalists claim that the unmasker, collator and disseminater of Trump intercepts viewed by Nunes and Schiff is Susan Rice.

              Rice simultaneously claims on ten different CNN and MNSBC programmes that no she didn't, yes she did, no Obama wasn't involved, except that yes he ordered it, the moon is made of cheese and damn all retard redneck racist dead white men. So there. Oh look a squirrel.

              CNN and MNSBC claim it's all Trump lies, including Rices statements.


              Cue more of
              Russians/Trump.
              Trump/Russians.
              Everyone who isn't a TDSS* is a Russian.
              Trumps a Liar. That's with a big L. Liar liar pants on fire.

              I soooo look forward to season two.


              *Trump Derangement Syndrome Sufferers
              Last edited by Parihaka; 06 Apr 17,, 03:49.
              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

              Leibniz

              Comment


              • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                "when the FBI is looking into the possibility of said collusion, i would say that your comparison of whom has more circumstantial evidence of wrongdoing might be a bit off...:-)"

                Oh yeah sure, so in an environment filled with Trump haters and people invested in watching him fail, nothing has leaked so far of substance other than the usual innunedos.

                So let's have an FBI investigation into Ricegate and see how far that goes.

                As someone once said, there is nothing here so it is our duty to keep looking until we find something....or something to that effect.:)
                Funny, but with all the leaks that have been happening, including from repubs who don't like trump, it is amazing that not one fact supporting the collusion-burger has leaked out in months of investigating.....

                Comment


                • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                  Great!

                  I'll call on you when I want to discuss the dastardly Russians abusing Ukraine and Syria.

                  In the meantime please let us discuss fake news here in peace.
                  Mea culpa. I did not realise that you knew more than all your security and intelligence agencies and that actually there was no Muscovite attempt to interfere in your election.

                  Comment


                  • YF,

                    So what evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, is there right now of a collusion?

                    I asking you sincerely.
                    bottom-line, the issue is whether or not you think the US intelligence community + FBI are a bunch of deep-state political hacks or if they're conducting a professional investigation.

                    there is currently an ongoing investigation involving all those agencies regarding the Trump candidacy and later administration's ties to Russia, to include the possibility of collusion.

                    so far, we've seen multiple Trump associates get canned or resign as details of their various contacts become widely known-- and this is not the "i had a talk with a random Russian" variety of contact, this is the "i took money from the Russians to promote their interests" variety of contact.

                    given these previous contacts, and the sudden, very noticeable shift in the GOP platform to become far more Russia-friendly (a position I'm not aware conservatives had held in any degree prior to this), it is not particularly partisan to wonder about Russian influence. especially when a previous IC investigation has already found that Putin interfered in the US election with the goal of getting Trump elected.

                    nor would the IC or FBI start an investigation purely on circumstantial evidence.

                    this is not to say the Administration is guilty of collusion, just that there are enough valid questions/evidence to justify an investigation, and thus cannot be written off as the evidence-free partisan hackjob that you say this is.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • 1) I think Comey and Brennan were incompetent political boobs.

                      2) This 'investiagation' was mainly due to leaks created by political hacks and eagerly swallowed up by the so called journalists. A whole bunch of stories that got this ball rolling has been just quietly forgotten when it was proven false.

                      3) I believe the investigation of the leaks is at least as important as the russian connection. We are not talking about Russian collusion anymore. We are talking about government officials messing with civil rights.

                      4) So no evidence, right?

                      Comment


                      • YF,

                        you're conflating several investigations: there's the Senate/House investigation and then there's the FBI/IC investigation.

                        even if you explain away the Senate/House investigation as political hackery (which is an interesting stance to take seeing as how both investigation committee chairmen are backers of Trump), then there's the FBI/IC investigation. (and that would indicate you support an independent investigation instead of the Senate/House investigation: do you?)

                        again, the bottom-line is that if there is no evidence, there would not be a FBI/IC investigation. this does not mean the evidence is necessarily damning (see HRC e-mail investigation) but it does indicate there is some evidence.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • Shit, I just realized this is a non ending debate...lol.

                          I tip over my king, sir.
                          (Until I come back in two weeks....lol)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                            YF,



                            bottom-line, the issue is whether or not you think the US intelligence community + FBI are a bunch of deep-state political hacks or if they're conducting a professional investigation.

                            there is currently an ongoing investigation involving all those agencies regarding the Trump candidacy and later administration's ties to Russia, to include the possibility of collusion.


                            so far, we've seen multiple Trump associates get canned or resign as details of their various contacts become widely known-- and this is not the "i had a talk with a random Russian" variety of contact, this is the "i took money from the Russians to promote their interests" variety of contact.

                            given these previous contacts, and the sudden, very noticeable shift in the GOP platform to become far more Russia-friendly (a position I'm not aware conservatives had held in any degree prior to this), it is not particularly partisan to wonder about Russian influence. especially when a previous IC investigation has already found that Putin interfered in the US election with the goal of getting Trump elected.

                            nor would the IC or FBI start an investigation purely on circumstantial evidence.

                            this is not to say the Administration is guilty of collusion, just that there are enough valid questions/evidence to justify an investigation, and thus cannot be written off as the evidence-free partisan hackjob that you say this is.
                            Pure fake news, The claims that the agencies believed there was hacking (of the election, not collusion between Trump and and Russia) was made by Brennan, a democrat apointment, and instigated by Obama.
                            "Earlier this week, I met separately with (Director) FBI James Comey and DNI Jim Clapper, and there is strong consensus among us on the scope, nature, and intent of Russian interference in our presidential election."
                            "The three of us also agree that our organizations, along with others, need to focus on completing the thorough review of this issue that has been directed by President Obama and which is being led by the DNI."
                            The connection to Trump is pure political spin on your part.
                            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                            Leibniz

                            Comment


                            • Pure fake news, The claims that the agencies believed there was hacking (of the election, not collusion between Trump and and Russia) was made by Brennan, a democrat apointment, and instigated by Obama.
                              https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

                              Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections

                              Russian efforts to influence the 2016 US presidential election represent the most recent expression of Moscow’s
                              longstanding desire to undermine the US-led liberal democratic order, but these activities demonstrated a significant escalation in directness, level of activity, and scope of effort
                              compared to previous operations.

                              We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process,
                              denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.


                              We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President
                              -elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments.


                              We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump’s
                              election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her
                              unfavorably to him.

                              All three agencies agree with this judgment. CIA and FBI have high confidence in this judgment;
                              NSA has moderate confidence.


                              Moscow’s approach evolved over the course of the campaign based on Russia’s understanding of the
                              electoral prospects of the two main candidates. When it appeared to Moscow that Secretary Clinton
                              was likely to win the election, the Russian influence campaign began to focus more on undermining
                              her future presidency.

                              Further information has come to light since Election Day that, when combined with Russian behavior
                              since early November 2016, increases our confidence in our assessments of Russian motivations and
                              goals.
                              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

                                Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections
                                Yes yes I've read Brennans claims before. Just because a political hack who constantly criticised Trump prior to the election despite his position puts his thoughts on paper with a letterhead doesn't make it true. His statement is not the terms for the investigation and is prejudging the outcome , as you well know.
                                Last edited by Parihaka; 06 Apr 17,, 20:28.
                                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                                Leibniz

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