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  • Odd... "House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) met a source on the “White House grounds” before making his claim last week that Trump transition aides were monitored by U.S. intelligence agencies, an aide to Nunes confirmed Monday."

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...g-claim-236541

    So this guy went to the White House to get information he still hasn't told anyone else, then dashed back to speak to Ryan, hold a press conference and then go back to the White House to brief what he had been briefed there himself not long before. Nothing odd here.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by snapper View Post
      Nothing odd here.
      Well I wouldn't sat that. A compendium of Trump surveillance compiled by the previous administration, shown to Nunes in the Eisenhower building on a secure server that Congress can't access? Very odd....
      In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

      Leibniz

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
        Well I wouldn't sat that. A compendium of Trump surveillance compiled by the previous administration, shown to Nunes in the Eisenhower building on a secure server that Congress can't access? Very odd....
        Get a grip. This is the Chairman of a committee investigating the Muscovite interference in the election and any 'coordination' of Trump or his pals with it. Off he goes to get a confidential briefing from in the 'grounds of the white house'. What he saw he seems confused about but it was that important he holds a press conference, ignores the rest of his committee and dashes back to the White House to tell Trump. Still nobody else has seen whatever it was Nunes says he saw; it's as secret as Trumps secret plan to destroy Daesh in a month! Then he cancels a public hearing of the committee at which Sally Yates was to testify allegedly so a private hearing could held - but that did not happen either nor will he tell his fellow committee members what he briefed Trump on. So for the chairman of a committee nothing seems to be getting done while everyone goes chasing the ghost of what Nunes says he saw.

        Meanwhile the son in law who it turns out met Kislyak but hey nothing surprising there... Kislyak seems to have been pals with them all but more than that he goes off to meet Sergey Gorkov the Chairman of VEB (VneshEconomBank) which is essentially the FSB bank (Gorkov was appointed personally by Putin) and is under sanctions. This is just getting beyond belief. Clearly an independent investigation is needed and anyone with questions to answer should be suspended until they are cleared or prosecuted - including Trump.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by snapper View Post
          Still nobody else has seen whatever it was Nunes says he saw;
          Lol, one minute you're claiming Nunes broke all sorts of laws disclosing wiretapping evidence, the next you're complaining because he hasn't released any of that info to you.
          Originally posted by snapper View Post
          Having now seen Nunes remarks in full I find them quite incredible. Is he not 'leaking' himself? Doing precisely what Trumpians moan about?
          As for the rest, I'll let Trey Gowdy answer

          “I just love it when Senator Schumer gives Republicans advice on what we ought to do,” Gowdy said. “Devin is doing exactly what the chairman ought to do. When you have a source that has information, you handle that information safely, securely, which is exactly what he did. I wish Senator Schumer and some of the other Democrats would be more interested in authenticity and the reliability of the underlying data and not the means by which it was acquired. Whether it was the White House or Waffle House, what difference does it make if the information is reliable and authentic? It just so happens that Devin had to do it this way. So, we’re not going to take advice from Chuck Schumer on who our chairpeople ought to be.”
          In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

          Leibniz

          Comment


          • Ah...good to be back!

            Oh by the way, the mainstream media is going ape-shit over this story.....not!

            http://www.voanews.com/a/crowdstrike...p/3776067.html



            Think Tank: Cyber Firm at Center of Russian Hacking Charges Misread Data


            WASHINGTON —

            An influential British think tank and Ukraine’s military are disputing a report that the U.S. cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike has used to buttress its claims of Russian hacking in the presidential election.

            The CrowdStrike report, released in December, asserted that Russians hacked into a Ukrainian artillery app, resulting in heavy losses of howitzers in Ukraine’s war with Russian-backed separatists.

            But the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) told VOA that CrowdStrike erroneously used IISS data as proof of the intrusion. IISS disavowed any connection to the CrowdStrike report. Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense also has claimed combat losses and hacking never happened.

            A CrowdStrike spokesperson told VOA that it stands by its findings, which, they say, "have been confirmed by others in the cybersecurity community.”

            The challenges to CrowdStrike’s credibility are significant because the firm was the first to link last year’s hacks of Democratic Party computers to Russian actors, and because CrowdStrike co-founder Dimiti Alperovitch has trumpeted its Ukraine report as more evidence of Russian election tampering.

            Alperovitch has said that variants of the same software were used in both hacks.

            While questions about CrowdStrike’s findings don’t disprove allegations of Russian involvement, they do add to skepticismvoiced by some cybersecurity experts and commentators about the quality of their technical evidence.

            The Russian government has denied covert involvement in the election, but U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded that Russian hacks were meant to discredit Hillary Clinton and help Donald Trump’s campaign. An FBI and Homeland Security reportalso blamed Russian intelligence services.

            On Monday, FBI Director James Comey confirmed at a House Intelligence Committee hearing that his agency has an ongoing investigation into the hacks of Democratic campaign computers and into contacts between Russian operatives and Trump campaign associates. The White House says there was no collusion with Russia, and other U.S. officials have said they’ve found no proof.

            Signature malware


            VOA News first reported in December that sources close to the Ukraine military and the artillery app’s creator questioned CrowdStrike’s finding that a Russian-linked group it named “Fancy Bear” had hacked the app. CrowdStrike said it found a variant of the same “X-Agent” malware used to attack the Democrats.

            CrowdStrike said the hack allowed Ukraine’s enemies to locate its artillery units. As proof of its effectiveness, the report referenced publicly reported data in which IISS had sharply reduced its estimates of Ukrainian artillery assets. IISS, based in London, publishes a highly regarded, annual reference called “The Military Balance” that estimates the strength of world armed forces.

            “Between July and August 2014, Russian-backed forces launched some of the most-decisive attacks against Ukrainian forces, resulting in significant loss of life, weaponry and territory,” CrowdStrike wrote in its report, explaining that the hack compromised an app used to aim Soviet-era D-30 howitzers.

            “Ukrainian artillery forces have lost over 50% of their weapons in the two years of conflict and over 80% of D-30 howitzers, the highest percentage of loss of any other artillery pieces in Ukraine’s arsenal,” the report said, crediting a Russian bloggerwho had cited figures from IISS.

            The report prompted skepticism in Ukraine

            Yaroslav Sherstyuk, maker of the Ukrainian military app in question, called the company’s report “delusional” in a Facebook post. CrowdStrike never contacted him before or after its report was published, he told VOA.

            Pavlo Narozhnyy, a technical adviser to Ukraine’s military, told VOA that while it was theoretically possible the howitzer app could have been compromised, any infection would have been spotted. “I personally know hundreds of gunmen in the war zone,” Narozhnyy told VOA in December. “None of them told me of D-30 losses caused by hacking or any other reason.”

            VOA first contacted IISS in February to verify the alleged artillery losses. Officials there initially were unaware of the CrowdStrike assertions. After investigating, they determined that CrowdStrike misinterpreted their data and hadn’t reached out beforehand for comment or clarification.

            In a statement to VOA, the institute flatly rejected the assertion of artillery combat losses.

            “The CrowdStrike report uses our data, but the inferences and analysis drawn from that data belong solely to the report's authors,” the IISS said. “The inference they make that reductions in Ukrainian D-30 artillery holdings between 2013 and 2016 were primarily the result of combat losses is not a conclusion that we have ever suggested ourselves, nor one we believe to be accurate.”

            One of the IISS researchers who produced the data said that while the think tank had dramatically lowered its estimates of Ukrainian artillery assets and howitzers in 2013, it did so as part of a “reassessment” and reallocation of units to airborne forces.

            "No, we have never attributed this reduction to combat losses," the IISS researcher said, explaining that most of the reallocation occurred prior to the two-year period that CrowdStrike cites in its report.

            “The vast majority of the reduction actually occurs ... before Crimea/Donbass,” he added, referring to the 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine.

            Evidence flimsy'

            In early January, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense issued a statement saying artillery losses from the ongoing fighting with separatists are “several times smaller than the number reported by [CrowdStrike] and are not associated with the specified cause” of Russian hacking.

            But Ukraine’s denial did not get the same attention as CrowdStrike’s report. Its release was widely covered by news media reports as further evidence of Russian hacking in the U.S. election.

            In interviews, Alperovitch helped foster that impression by connecting the Ukraine and Democratic campaign hacks, which CrowdStrike said involved the same Russian-linked hacking group—Fancy Bear—and versions of X-Agent malware the group was known to use.

            “The fact that they would be tracking and helping the Russian military kill Ukrainian army personnel in eastern Ukraine and also intervening in the U.S. election is quite chilling,” Alperovitch said in a December 22 story by The Washington Post.

            The same day, Alperovitch told the PBS NewsHour: “And when you think about, well, who would be interested in targeting Ukraine artillerymen in eastern Ukraine? Who has interest in hacking the Democratic Party? [The] Russia government comes to mind, but specifically, [it's the] Russian military that would have operational [control] over forces in the Ukraine and would target these artillerymen.”

            Alperovitch, a Russian expatriate and senior fellow at the Atlantic Council policy research center in Washington, co-founded CrowdStrike in 2011. The firm has employed two former FBI heavyweights: Shawn Henry, who oversaw global cyber investigations at the agency, and Steven Chabinsky, who was the agency's top cyber lawyer and served on an Obama White House cybersecurity commission in 2016. Chabinsky left CrowdStrike last year.

            CrowdStrike declined to answer VOA’s written questions about the Ukraine report, and Alperovitch canceled a March 15 interview on the topic. In a December statement to VOA’s Ukrainian Service, spokeswoman Ilina Dimitrova defended the company’s conclusions.

            “It is indisputable that the [Ukraine artillery] app has been hacked by Fancy Bear malware,” Dimitrova wrote. “We have published the indicators to it, and they have been confirmed by others in the cybersecurity community.”

            In its report last June attributing the Democratic hacks, CrowdStrike said it was long familiar with the methods used by Fancy Bear and another group with ties to Russian intelligence nicknamed Cozy Bear. Soon after, U.S. cybersecurity firms Fidelis and Mandiant endorsed CrowdStrike’s conclusions. The FBI and Homeland Security report reached the same conclusion about the two groups.

            Still, some cybersecurity experts are skeptical that the election and purported Ukraine hacks are connected. Among them is Jeffrey Carr, a cyberwarfare consultant who has lectured at the U.S. Army War College, the Defense Intelligence Agency, and other government agencies.

            In a January post on LinkedIn, Carr called CrowdStrike’s evidence in the Ukraine “flimsy.” He told VOA in an interview that CrowdStrike mistakenly assumed that the X-Agent malware employed in the hacks was a reliable fingerprint for Russian actors.

            “We now know that’s false,” he said, “and that the source code has been obtained by others outside of Russia."

            Jeffrey Carr's articles on the matter:

            https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/crowd...e-jeffrey-carr

            https://medium.com/@jeffreycarr/the-...d-820960bbb02d
            Last edited by YellowFever; 29 Mar 17,, 07:09.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
              Lol, one minute you're claiming Nunes broke all sorts of laws disclosing wiretapping evidence, the next you're complaining because he hasn't released any of that info to you.


              As for the rest, I'll let Trey Gowdy answer

              “I just love it when Senator Schumer gives Republicans advice on what we ought to do,” Gowdy said. “Devin is doing exactly what the chairman ought to do. When you have a source that has information, you handle that information safely, securely, which is exactly what he did. I wish Senator Schumer and some of the other Democrats would be more interested in authenticity and the reliability of the underlying data and not the means by which it was acquired. Whether it was the White House or Waffle House, what difference does it make if the information is reliable and authentic? It just so happens that Devin had to do it this way. So, we’re not going to take advice from Chuck Schumer on who our chairpeople ought to be.”

              First Nunes statements to the press is all his committee members know. If he is indeed referring to FISA sanctioned ongoing investigations he is making public classified information; hardly appropriate material for a press conference but suitable perhaps to share with his committee members which he has still failed to do.

              As for Gowdy I suppose it depends what you think Nunes job is... Is it obfuscate and stop any meaningful investigation? In that case he is doing very well; there are no hearing of any kind planned, not even meetings of the committee. If however his job as Chairman of committee is conduct an unbiased and thorough investigation he is clearly failing.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                First Nunes statements to the press is all his committee members know.
                Which is exactly the way it should be until such time as the committee is handed the documents, otherwise he's breaking the law.
                Strike one.
                If he is indeed referring to FISA sanctioned ongoing investigations
                Supposition
                he is making public classified information;
                that is precisely what he hasn't done, much to your chagrin.
                Strike 2
                hardly appropriate material for a press conference but suitable perhaps to share with his committee members which he has still failed to do.
                See strike one.
                As for Gowdy I suppose it depends what you think Nunes job is... Is it obfuscate and stop any meaningful investigation? In that case he is doing very well; there are no hearing of any kind planned, not even meetings of the committee. If however his job as Chairman of committee is conduct an unbiased and thorough investigation he is clearly failing.
                Uh huh, bringing the committees attention to relevant information otherwise unobtainable is obfuscation.
                Strike three.
                "I wish Senator Schumer and some of the other Democrats would be more interested in authenticity and the reliability of the underlying data and not the means by which it was acquired. "

                So when did you join the Democrat party?
                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                Leibniz

                Comment


                • Nunes suddenly goes (and is authorized to go) to WH grounds to meet with an unidentified (also presumably authorized) staffer, gets intelligence of some sort that has still not been shared with anybody else on his own investigation committee, TELLS THE PERSON HE IS SUPPOSEDLY INVESTIGATING about it, holds a press conference that overstates (by his own later admission) what he presumably saw.

                  yeah, nothing wrong or partisan about THAT at all.
                  There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                    Ah...good to be back!

                    Oh by the way, the mainstream media is going ape-shit over this story.....not!

                    http://www.voanews.com/a/crowdstrike...p/3776067.html





                    Jeffrey Carr's articles on the matter:

                    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/crowd...e-jeffrey-carr

                    https://medium.com/@jeffreycarr/the-...d-820960bbb02d
                    Yeah I remember at the time everyone outside Demland was going WTF over Crowdstrike's claims but it was just one piece of the puzzle floating in a sea of turds that it didn't get the attention it deserved.
                    Nevermind,
                    Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men
                    gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
                    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                    Leibniz

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                      Nunes suddenly goes (and is authorized to go) to WH grounds to meet with an unidentified (also presumably authorized) staffer, gets intelligence of some sort that has still not been shared with anybody else on his own investigation committee, TELLS THE PERSON HE IS SUPPOSEDLY INVESTIGATING about it, holds a press conference that overstates (by his own later admission) what he presumably saw.

                      yeah, nothing wrong or partisan about THAT at all.
                      OH MY GOD!!!! You mean a politician is PARTISAN??? OHMYGOD!!!! :parihakafallsoverinshock:
                      In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                      Leibniz

                      Comment


                      • yet this committee is -supposed- to be nonpartisan, as republicans (excepting Graham and McCain) are swearing up and down the aisle that it is.

                        if the investigation itself is compromised by partisanship, then it should be shut down in favor of an independent committee.
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                          yet this committee is -supposed- to be nonpartisan, as republicans (excepting Graham and McCain) are swearing up and down the aisle that it is.

                          if the investigation itself is compromised by partisanship, then it should be shut down in favor of an independent committee.
                          Why the hell should anyone play by the rules you dictate? Yes, McCain, Graham, Romney etc bought into the "conservatives should be held to a higher standard than democrats" schtick but they loose. All the time.
                          What's happening now is as I've told you; conservatives are playing by the same rules you do. Want to improve the standard of conservative actions? Improve your own standard of behaviour.
                          In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                          Leibniz

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                            Which is exactly the way it should be until such time as the committee is handed the documents, otherwise he's breaking the law.
                            Been over a week now and no documents reveal to the committee. Should he not have informed his committee rather than the press or the person who's possible links to the election interference the committee is supposed to be invastigating?

                            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                            Supposition that is precisely what he hasn't done, much to your chagrin.
                            Not sure anyone can say since Nunes isn't telling anyone what information allegedly was revealed to him. If it did relate to a FISA sanctioned investigation then clearly he would be revealing classified information.

                            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                            Uh huh, bringing the committees attention to relevant information otherwise unobtainable is obfuscation.
                            But he HASN'T told the committee a dickie bird and instead cancelled all hearings and meetings.

                            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                            "I wish Senator Schumer and some of the other Democrats would be more interested in authenticity and the reliability of the underlying data and not the means by which it was acquired."
                            The data is that Nunes was persuaded by the White House to commit to a publicity stunt to get the fact that the FBI were investigating Trumps collusion with Moscow out of the headlines; make smoke. When Sally Yates was going to give evidence Nunes pulled the hearing and said there would be a closed hearing with Comey - who's office denies having ever received an invitation or invite for him to attend. Look how long has it been since Trump claimed "Obama wiretapped me"? Do you not think if he had ANY evidence of this he would have produced it by now? He has none because nothing of the sort happened or is happening. It was all smoke.

                            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                            So when did you join the Democrat party?
                            I am not a US citizen so am not party political in US matters and since I could not vote would never be a member of any US political party even if they permitted it. I will admit to becoming slightly more 'liberal' in the last three years; war teaches humanity. In my view Trump is not a conservative; he is deeply compromised by an enemy of the Western world and a narcissistic self interested lout. When did you sign onto the Moscow apologists payroll?

                            Comment


                            • Why the hell should anyone play by the rules you dictate? Yes, McCain, Graham, Romney etc bought into the "conservatives should be held to a higher standard than democrats" schtick but they loose. All the time.
                              lol, suddenly the idea of a nonpartisan investigation committee is a rule that "I" dictate, hahahaha.

                              there's a reason why Republicans are trying so hard to insist that the committee is fair and nonpartisan, precisely because this is what is expected of an investigation committee...and because they don't want public pressure to build for an independent committee. YOU just admitted that the chair of said committee was partisan.

                              i completely understand the hypocrisy on the matter, but the idea that conservatives act poorly just because of past liberal behavior is pretty funny. the ultimate "thanks, obama!"
                              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                                Been over a week now and no documents reveal to the committee. Should he not have informed his committee rather than the press or the person who's possible links to the election interference the committee is supposed to be invastigating?
                                Ummm, he DID inform his committee. The Dems angst is he also informed the Trump Admin and the general public.
                                Strike one.

                                Not sure anyone can say since Nunes isn't telling anyone what information allegedly was revealed to him.
                                Too many double negatives to bother with
                                If it did relate to a FISA sanctioned investigation then clearly he would be revealing classified information.
                                Which clearly he hasn't done. Strike two

                                But he HASN'T told the committee a dickie bird and instead cancelled all hearings and meetings.
                                Well give him time, this has been going on for months with nothing to show for it but Democrat members making weekly statements about Trump being guilty of Russianess.


                                The data is that Nunes was persuaded by the White House to commit to a publicity stunt to get the fact that the FBI were investigating Trumps collusion with Moscow out of the headlines; make smoke.
                                What data? Your opinion?
                                When Sally Yates was going to give evidence Nunes pulled the hearing and said there would be a closed hearing with Comey - who's office denies having ever received an invitation or invite for him to attend. Look how long has it been since Trump claimed "Obama wiretapped me"? Do you not think if he had ANY evidence of this he would have produced it by now? He has none because nothing of the sort happened or is happening. It was all smoke.
                                Which takes us neatly back to all those newspaper articles that I've linked to time and time again saying that Trump Inc. was under surveillance by the various intelligence agencies. SO, yet again, to return to what this thread is actually about, were those articles claiming Russian/Trump cooperation based on intelligence agency officials statements Fake or not?
                                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                                Leibniz

                                Comment

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