Race and 2016

[InExile]

Whether or not it sounds bigoted isn't what matters, what matters is the point that border control matters because people like this do cross over.

In Oz, people are detained in less than ideal conditions that aren't satisfactory because these people need to be vetted - much like someone applying for a visa. In Oz, passport holders don't have prescribed offenses against them. You can't get a passport if you do. Rape is one of them.

In Mexico - an absolute shit hole with paramilitary drug forces, is at best a dangerous place for unaccompanied minors to pass through. Even the Huffington Post mentions as such. http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...rape_n_5806972

In Australia and New Zealand, you pass through smart gates that scan your face and do background checks.

In the U.S election cycle that sounds "bigoted".

Well, at least someone mentioned the border. It certainly wasn't Hillary. It seems as though the cry of "racist" should preclude any consideration of actual policy. It would seem that the vast majority of complaints against Trump supporters, revolve around shoving them into the white box.

Women shouldn't vote for Trump because of "Grab them by the pussy" Rather than the well being of their kids.
Hispanics shouldn't vote for Trump because he emphasised the bad and not the good of ethnic migration, rather than the problems that occur when you're perceived to have a lax border.
Military Vets knocking themselves off at astronomical rates is not an either issue, because it pales in comparison to "racist".

Imagine the pussyfooting PC crap one has to put across just to say you need a secure border, rather than just saying it crudely in terms everyone understands. No... there's no problem with political correctness in the U.S. at all.

Missing the point. My post was in response to Mihais asking why Trump was subject to such a high level of vitriol. Basically, you can have a tough immigration policy without insulting Mexico and implying many of them are rapists. You can have a tough policy against terrorism without inventing lies about muslims dancing on the streets after 9/11.

In hindsight the democrat strategy of trying get voters disgusted by Trump's behavior was wrong. Essentially, as you say, they decided getting a handle on illegal immigration was more important then Trump saying 'grabbing them by the pussy'. It does not mean that Trump voters chose bigotry, however I think they overlooked the other serious concerns about Trump's fitness for the presidency.

[Mihais]

Buddy,you miss the point.Talking like this is a message in itself and clever planning.Opponents guarantee free publicity.Supporters get the guarantee that it is serious election issue.

Yes,you can talk about problems without shocking anyone.But with a normal,balanced population that can see eye to eye.The US electorate of today is not normal and balanced.So simply saying that the border needs to be secured is not enough.Leftists will cry "racism" anyway,while potential supporters will shrug it off.

If you recall the movie Idiocracy,the smartest man on Earth becomes POTUS at the end and he shows both middle fingers to the people,while they cheer.Is not the man that's vulgar,it's the electorate that's so debased it cannot any other mean of communication.

The public discourse that is decent,gentle,fact and reason based has been in good part replaced by a leftist narrative that shouts down anything resembling reason.
And reasonable people were in stupor after 20 years of being called evil for any pretext imaginable.They needed to woke up.

[Parihaka]

IPSOS releases a poll it had held over until after the election

http://ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=16157

[astralis]

this reminds me of a pollster question, "is discrimination against whites as big a problem as discrimination against minorities?"

hell, from the discussion above it seems more like "is accusation of discrimination as big a problem as discrimination against minorities?"

[Doktor]

this reminds me of a pollster question, "is discrimination against whites as big a problem as discrimination against minorities?"

hell, from the discussion above it seems more like "is accusation of discrimination as big a problem as discrimination against minorities?"

You are of Asian descent, so you have a side in this. :-D

[drhuy]

and people wonder why minorities are flocking to the Democratic Party.

we're roughly 20 years out from the US becoming a "minority-majority" country. for context, it was roughly 20 years ago that the California Republican Party committed political suicide with Prop 187.

so Republicans had better start giving a shit pretty soon. as it is, Steve Bannon as "chief strategist". the new admin talking about a Muslim registry based off the legal principle behind Japanese-American internment. these aren't things people are likely to forget anytime soon.

LOL "flocking"? then why the democrat still lost miserably?

why the "obama coalition" didnt bother to show up this time?

the left still doesnt get it.

blacks dont give a flying F about mexican immigrants. why should they?

latino dont give a rat a$$ about black. why should they?

both black and latino couldnt care less about muslim refugees. why should they?

the whole "minorities united" (against white) platform is just pure stupidity.


its even more stupid given the democrat party is still ruled by old white angry folks. Heck, even the gop had more diversity in their primaries.

[astralis]

drhuy,

LOL "flocking"? then why the democrat still lost miserably?

do try and learn a little bit about the electoral college, and the demographics of the states that won the election for Trump.

for the 2020 election, if dem support among minorities -remains the same- as 2016 and the republicans keep the exact same level of support among working class whites-- the latter of which i have my doubts about-- then just by demographic growth alone, the dems would have flipped the results.

the whole "minorities united" (against white) platform is just pure stupidity.

who says it is "against whites"? do you say working class white people are united as a bloc against minorities?

correspondingly, college-educated white voters as well as white women have shifted Dem over the last 20 years; they used to be Republican dominated demographics but is now a toss-up.

[Doktor]

correspondingly, college-educated white voters as well as white women have shifted Dem over the last 20 years; they used to be Republican dominated demographics but is now a toss-up.

Erm...

https://newrepublic.com/article/1387...-working-class

Even Guardian sings this tune: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ump-exit-polls

[astralis]

dok,

Erm...

https://newrepublic.com/article/1387...-working-class

Even Guardian sings this tune: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ump-exit-polls

i said over the last 20 years...

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...der-education/

[Doktor]

Looks the same as 1992 to me.

[Wooglin]

Buddy,you miss the point.Talking like this is a message in itself and clever planning.Opponents guarantee free publicity.Supporters get the guarantee that it is serious election issue.

Yes,you can talk about problems without shocking anyone.But with a normal,balanced population that can see eye to eye.The US electorate of today is not normal and balanced.So simply saying that the border needs to be secured is not enough.Leftists will cry "racism" anyway,while potential supporters will shrug it off.

If you recall the movie Idiocracy,the smartest man on Earth becomes POTUS at the end and he shows both middle fingers to the people,while they cheer.Is not the man that's vulgar,it's the electorate that's so debased it cannot any other mean of communication.

The public discourse that is decent,gentle,fact and reason based has been in good part replaced by a leftist narrative that shouts down anything resembling reason.
And reasonable people were in stupor after 20 years of being called evil for any pretext imaginable.They needed to woke up.

Well said

[antimony]

Well said

Yeah, only the leftists shout; the right is an epitome of decency
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...trump-movement
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/15/502042...rump-and-ailes

[GVChamp]

Probably will get to the rest of this later, but this element:

You've just expanded your agenda from illegal border-crossers from south of the continent to staunching the flow of skilled legal immigration. Your stated reason is that now your new group of unlikable immigrants are diluting some unchanging Americanness outside of a knowledge of the constitution or obedience of laws. It's an entirely familiar script: identity politics masquerading as legitimate national security and legal concerns, but mobilized to serve cultural/political ends.

And that's why Asian voters are moving away from the GOP. If that's the hardball the President-elect wants to play during his administration, it's not just gonna be BLM.

Has been in US politics since before the freakin' Civil War. It's also present in every single nation throughout essentially all of history. It's STILL the implicit US policy, which is why most immigrants to the US have a family connection, because the US system is set-up to prefer family connections.

This has never been understood as a way to keep America in a cultural stasis: The US hasn't been in a cultural stasis since the 1840s. As Americans, we have the right to determine what kind of change we want and who we want to allow in the nation. Again, this has always been understood to be a right of the Nation under the Nation-State configuration. It's only in the last 10 years that this has suddenly become "racist," and it's only in the last 10 years that supporting illegal immigrants became a principled stance.

Asians voting heavily Dem pre-dates Trump and the Asian voting bloc hasn't voted (R) since 1992, IIRC. Asians voting (R) is something of the Cold War and the Asian population of 2016 is NOT the Asian population of 1992 anyways: There's been substantial change in the demographics due to immigration the last 20+ years.

Also, yes, ethnic breakdown hasn't happened in the US with historical immigration. Great, that's awesome. Go tell the Soviet Union that ethnic nationalism is no big deal. Oh wait....

[Wooglin]

Yeah, only the leftists shout; the right is an epitome of decency

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[astralis]

GVChamp,

Has been in US politics since before the freakin' Civil War. It's also present in every single nation throughout essentially all of history. It's STILL the implicit US policy, which is why most immigrants to the US have a family connection, because the US system is set-up to prefer family connections.

This has never been understood as a way to keep America in a cultural stasis: The US hasn't been in a cultural stasis since the 1840s. As Americans, we have the right to determine what kind of change we want and who we want to allow in the nation. Again, this has always been understood to be a right of the Nation under the Nation-State configuration. It's only in the last 10 years that this has suddenly become "racist," and it's only in the last 10 years that supporting illegal immigrants became a principled stance.

from a historical standpoint this is not true. the US experienced significantly more immigration from the period 1860-1910 than in any period, including today. from european immigrants, this was largely regulation-free up until the 1920s-- even the much detested eastern/southern europeans and the irish weren't explicitly kept out, even though british and to a lesser degree french immigration was valued above others. asian immigration was banned starting in the 1870s-1880s. there was a very clear racial hierarchy designed to balance the views of business elites looking for cheap labor along with the nativists, anti-miscegenationists, and protectionists.

these laws WERE derided as racist, even at the time, and actually led to a number of foreign policy rows. ie when japan became a power, she began to badger the US about the racist nature of US anti-japanese immigration law.

moreover, the reason why nation-state quotas were banned in 1965 was because people finally came around to recognizing the racist aspect of quotas that encouraged European immigration at the expense of Asian immigration.