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  • drhuy
    replied
    Originally posted by astralis View Post
    and people wonder why minorities are flocking to the Democratic Party.

    we're roughly 20 years out from the US becoming a "minority-majority" country. for context, it was roughly 20 years ago that the California Republican Party committed political suicide with Prop 187.

    so Republicans had better start giving a shit pretty soon. as it is, Steve Bannon as "chief strategist". the new admin talking about a Muslim registry based off the legal principle behind Japanese-American internment. these aren't things people are likely to forget anytime soon.

    LOL "flocking"? then why the democrat still lost miserably?

    why the "obama coalition" didnt bother to show up this time?

    the left still doesnt get it.

    blacks dont give a flying F about mexican immigrants. why should they?

    latino dont give a rat a$$ about black. why should they?

    both black and latino couldnt care less about muslim refugees. why should they?

    the whole "minorities united" (against white) platform is just pure stupidity.


    its even more stupid given the democrat party is still ruled by old white angry folks. Heck, even the gop had more diversity in their primaries.
    Last edited by drhuy; 20 Nov 16,, 19:59.

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  • Doktor
    replied
    Originally posted by astralis View Post
    this reminds me of a pollster question, "is discrimination against whites as big a problem as discrimination against minorities?"

    hell, from the discussion above it seems more like "is accusation of discrimination as big a problem as discrimination against minorities?"
    You are of Asian descent, so you have a side in this. :-D

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  • astralis
    replied
    this reminds me of a pollster question, "is discrimination against whites as big a problem as discrimination against minorities?"

    hell, from the discussion above it seems more like "is accusation of discrimination as big a problem as discrimination against minorities?"

    Leave a comment:


  • Parihaka
    replied
    IPSOS releases a poll it had held over until after the election

    http://ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=16157

    Leave a comment:


  • Mihais
    replied
    Buddy,you miss the point.Talking like this is a message in itself and clever planning.Opponents guarantee free publicity.Supporters get the guarantee that it is serious election issue.

    Yes,you can talk about problems without shocking anyone.But with a normal,balanced population that can see eye to eye.The US electorate of today is not normal and balanced.So simply saying that the border needs to be secured is not enough.Leftists will cry "racism" anyway,while potential supporters will shrug it off.

    If you recall the movie Idiocracy,the smartest man on Earth becomes POTUS at the end and he shows both middle fingers to the people,while they cheer.Is not the man that's vulgar,it's the electorate that's so debased it cannot any other mean of communication.

    The public discourse that is decent,gentle,fact and reason based has been in good part replaced by a leftist narrative that shouts down anything resembling reason.
    And reasonable people were in stupor after 20 years of being called evil for any pretext imaginable.They needed to woke up.

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  • InExile
    replied
    Originally posted by Chunder View Post
    Whether or not it sounds bigoted isn't what matters, what matters is the point that border control matters because people like this do cross over.

    In Oz, people are detained in less than ideal conditions that aren't satisfactory because these people need to be vetted - much like someone applying for a visa. In Oz, passport holders don't have prescribed offenses against them. You can't get a passport if you do. Rape is one of them.

    In Mexico - an absolute shit hole with paramilitary drug forces, is at best a dangerous place for unaccompanied minors to pass through. Even the Huffington Post mentions as such. http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...rape_n_5806972

    In Australia and New Zealand, you pass through smart gates that scan your face and do background checks.

    In the U.S election cycle that sounds "bigoted".

    Well, at least someone mentioned the border. It certainly wasn't Hillary. It seems as though the cry of "racist" should preclude any consideration of actual policy. It would seem that the vast majority of complaints against Trump supporters, revolve around shoving them into the white box.

    Women shouldn't vote for Trump because of "Grab them by the pussy" Rather than the well being of their kids.
    Hispanics shouldn't vote for Trump because he emphasised the bad and not the good of ethnic migration, rather than the problems that occur when you're perceived to have a lax border.
    Military Vets knocking themselves off at astronomical rates is not an either issue, because it pales in comparison to "racist".

    Imagine the pussyfooting PC crap one has to put across just to say you need a secure border, rather than just saying it crudely in terms everyone understands. No... there's no problem with political correctness in the U.S. at all.
    Missing the point. My post was in response to Mihais asking why Trump was subject to such a high level of vitriol. Basically, you can have a tough immigration policy without insulting Mexico and implying many of them are rapists. You can have a tough policy against terrorism without inventing lies about muslims dancing on the streets after 9/11.

    In hindsight the democrat strategy of trying get voters disgusted by Trump's behavior was wrong. Essentially, as you say, they decided getting a handle on illegal immigration was more important then Trump saying 'grabbing them by the pussy'. It does not mean that Trump voters chose bigotry, however I think they overlooked the other serious concerns about Trump's fitness for the presidency.
    Last edited by InExile; 20 Nov 16,, 09:37.

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  • Triple C
    replied
    Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
    Hey let's have border security like we agreed to in 2007 on bipartisan terms! -Hitler
    Hey let's restrict immigration from nations that export terrorists! -Hitler
    Hey let's have some augmented security screening from nations that export terrorists! -Hitler
    Hey let's not allow illegal immigrants to public benefits! -Hitler
    It'd be helpful in your quest to combat an unfair label, if you would take time to reflect on where Asian Americans historically stood on those issues before start accusing them of imagined sins. Sensible border control and anti-terrorism were not unpopular policies among Asian American voters, until that became wedded to nativism starting with the Tea Party.

    Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
    Yeah, embracing American values by calling the vast majority of Americans who want to limit or reduce immigrants racist. Yep, real "American values" right there.
    Come on, calling people names are un-American now? Here I was thinking that's the national past time.

    On a serious note: There was no wider Asian opposition to restriction on illegal immigration from Clinton to GW Bush. There's no real consensus on appropriate measures to combat terrorism. Trump's racism is what triggered real partisan alignment in that ethnic group.

    You've just expanded your agenda from illegal border-crossers from south of the continent to staunching the flow of skilled legal immigration. Your stated reason is that now your new group of unlikable immigrants are diluting some unchanging Americanness outside of a knowledge of the constitution or obedience of laws. It's an entirely familiar script: identity politics masquerading as legitimate national security and legal concerns, but mobilized to serve cultural/political ends.

    And that's why Asian voters are moving away from the GOP. If that's the hardball the President-elect wants to play during his administration, it's not just gonna be BLM.

    Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
    An insult is a presumption that all of your ideas are good and you can only possibly improve to a nation's constitution.
    It's not about following the laws, or affecting the income of blue collar Americans, then. It's about maintaining a cultural stasis in a configuration that keeps what ever you identify as "American," to the exclusion of others, in power.
    Last edited by Triple C; 20 Nov 16,, 06:11.

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  • Chunder
    replied
    Originally posted by InExile View Post
    One of these statements sounds bigoted and inflamatory and one sounds like common sense
    Whether or not it sounds bigoted isn't what matters, what matters is the point that border control matters because people like this do cross over.

    In Oz, people are detained in less than ideal conditions that aren't satisfactory because these people need to be vetted - much like someone applying for a visa. In Oz, passport holders don't have prescribed offenses against them. You can't get a passport if you do. Rape is one of them.

    In Mexico - an absolute shit hole with paramilitary drug forces, is at best a dangerous place for unaccompanied minors to pass through. Even the Huffington Post mentions as such. http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...rape_n_5806972

    In Australia and New Zealand, you pass through smart gates that scan your face and do background checks.

    In the U.S election cycle that sounds "bigoted".

    Well, at least someone mentioned the border. It certainly wasn't Hillary. It seems as though the cry of "racist" should preclude any consideration of actual policy. It would seem that the vast majority of complaints against Trump supporters, revolve around shoving them into the white box.

    Women shouldn't vote for Trump because of "Grab them by the pussy" Rather than the well being of their kids.
    Hispanics shouldn't vote for Trump because he emphasised the bad and not the good of ethnic migration, rather than the problems that occur when you're perceived to have a lax border.
    Military Vets knocking themselves off at astronomical rates is not an either issue, because it pales in comparison to "racist".

    Imagine the pussyfooting PC crap one has to put across just to say you need a secure border, rather than just saying it crudely in terms everyone understands. No... there's no problem with political correctness in the U.S. at all.
    Last edited by Chunder; 20 Nov 16,, 01:27.

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  • InExile
    replied
    One of these statements sounds bigoted and inflamatory and one sounds like common sense


    When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
    We cannot tolerate illegal immigration and we must stop it. For years before Bill Clinton became President, Washington talked tough but failed to act. In 1992, our borders might as well not have existed. The border was under-patrolled, and what patrols there were, were under-equipped. Drugs flowed freely. Illegal immigration was rampant. Criminal immigrants, deported after committing crimes in America, returned the very next day to commit crimes again. President Clinton is making our border a place where the law is respected and drugs and illegal immigrants are turned away.

    http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16...l-crying-wolf/
    Last edited by InExile; 20 Nov 16,, 00:00.

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  • InExile
    replied
    Originally posted by GVChamp View Post


    No there isn't. When offered a perfectly reasonable argument about why Americans do not want unlimited immigration from Asia, you said it was insulting. So whatever. Trump should just do whatever he wants, because he's never going to please you.

    Hey let's have border security like we agreed to in 2007 on bipartisan terms! -Hitler
    Hey let's restrict immigration from nations that export terrorists! -Hitler
    Hey let's have some augmented security screening from nations that export terrorists! -Hitler
    Hey let's not allow illegal immigrants to public benefits! -Hitler
    I didn't say any of that, I think you are mixing up posts

    I said unlimited immigration, was a strawman argument, as no one is proposing to bring 1 billion asians. Even at current levels of immigration, the total population of the US mid century would be at most 500 million

    Regarding the second part of your argument it kinda goes both ways.


    Mass Deportation does raise concerns about humanness - You are calling me a racist!
    A border wall is a dumb idea and infeasible - You are calling me a racist!
    A religious test on immigration might be against American values - You are calling me a racist!
    Last edited by InExile; 20 Nov 16,, 06:48.

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  • GVChamp
    replied
    Originally posted by Triple C View Post
    I see, and of course you believe that fundamental change by immigrants is necessarily for the worse. God forbid, you can't have those foreigners corrupting American cookery.

    Damn near every highly-skilled STEM-educated immigrant from my country to yours who naturalized embraced American values and preached it when they travelled the their place of birth. About half of the first gen vote republican. Bannon's comment is an insult and a betrayal of trust.

    See, when you start coming out to say cultural change introduced by minorities are bad, you are making the argument that all of the values they have, all of the culture they inherited--their identities--are a foreign, corrupting influence to some pristine, unchanging Americana that never was. Yet, you think the Left is responsible for identity politics. You wonder why the minorities are getting restless.

    Speaking of that essential America. Does that include Irish immigrants? Germans? Italians? All of them came in immigration waves that incited the same of backlash. You saying America is going to be made better with less of them?

    Btw, allegation of discriminatory practice is not an attack on all white men. It's a critique on white men doing the hiring. Your defense of Trump, Sessions, Bannon and Flynn as cultural vengeance for minority activism is the kind of behavior that the BLM should cut checks for.
    Yeah, embracing American values by calling the vast majority of Americans who want to limit or reduce immigrants racist. Yep, real "American values" right there.

    An insult is a presumption that all of your ideas are good and you can only possibly improve to a nation's constitution. I certainly don't go to Russia and insist that I would be nothing but positive and everyone who has skepticism about my presence is a downright no good racist that doesn't know a thing about true "Russian values."


    There is a way to propose the common sense measures you talk of without coming off as offensive or bigoted
    No there isn't. When offered a perfectly reasonable argument about why Americans do not want unlimited immigration from Asia, you said it was insulting. So whatever. Trump should just do whatever he wants, because he's never going to please you.

    Hey let's have border security like we agreed to in 2007 on bipartisan terms! -Hitler
    Hey let's restrict immigration from nations that export terrorists! -Hitler
    Hey let's have some augmented security screening from nations that export terrorists! -Hitler
    Hey let's not allow illegal immigrants to public benefits! -Hitler
    Last edited by GVChamp; 19 Nov 16,, 23:18.

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  • Doktor
    replied
    Originally posted by InExile View Post
    The vitriol directed at Trump is mainly because he is a jerk and offends basic standards of decency

    Yep. Meanwhile...

    Click image for larger version

Name:	we won the internet.jpg
Views:	1
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  • InExile
    replied
    Originally posted by Mihais View Post

    I still wonder at the magnitude of vitriol directed at Trumpism.Theatrics aside,it is mostly common sense.Even the most hardcore rednecks from West Virginia understand that when standing for election is a time of boisterous claims.
    I won't bet the farm on crashing and burning.I also cannot say it will be a resounding success.But I'd say is more likely to be a successfull presidency than a failed one.
    There is a way to propose the common sense measures you talk of without coming off as offensive or bigoted

    The vitriol directed at Trump is mainly because he is a jerk and offends basic standards of decency

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  • Triple C
    replied
    Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
    Bannon's comment has NOTHING to do with demeaning Asians or attacking Asians as a class. It has to do with acknowledging that importing people from a different culture that's not American and not Western is going to fundamentally change the way America operates. ... It's saying that America would cease to be America if you just let in a billion people [!].
    I see, and of course you believe that fundamental change by immigrants is necessarily for the worse. God forbid, you can't have those foreigners corrupting American cookery.

    Damn near every highly-skilled STEM-educated immigrant from my country to yours who naturalized embraced American values and preached it when they travelled the their place of birth. About half of the first gen vote republican. Bannon's comment is an insult and a betrayal of trust.

    See, when you start coming out to say cultural change introduced by minorities are bad, you are making the argument that all of the values they have, all of the culture they inherited--their identities--are a foreign, corrupting influence to some pristine, unchanging Americana that never was. Yet, you think the Left is responsible for identity politics. You wonder why the minorities are getting restless.

    Speaking of that essential America. Does that include Irish immigrants? Germans? Italians? All of them came in immigration waves that incited the same of backlash. You saying America is going to be made better with less of them?

    Btw, allegation of discriminatory practice is not an attack on all white men. It's a critique on white men doing the hiring. Your defense of Trump, Sessions, Bannon and Flynn as cultural vengeance for minority activism is the kind of behavior that the BLM should cut checks for.
    Last edited by Triple C; 19 Nov 16,, 22:30.

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  • InExile
    replied
    I don't think there is an agreed upon definition on what the alt right is. Some consider it synonymous with the White Nationalist movement of the David Duke variety which certainly is on the fringe and most likely less than 5% of GOP voters.

    On the other hand, if one considers the alt-right to be those who identify with America as a predominantly white Christian nation of mainly European descent and would like it to remain so as long as possible, the numbers would be much larger. By this definition people like Bannon and his followers on breitbart might be considered Alt right. This is not a racist movement generally speaking (even if it is a form of identity politics), as it recognizes the presence of minorities in America and their rights as citizens and even allows for a certain level of immigration.

    The talk of letting in 1 billion people into the US is a strawman as non one is proposing that. The disagreement is over the current level of immigration, the status of illegals and pace of demographic change.
    Last edited by InExile; 19 Nov 16,, 21:42.

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