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  • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    I'm all for a mandatory training course for gun owners. Just like I'm for a competency test for all voters. Stupid and uninformed people should not be allowed to vote, or own a gun.
    That sounds fine in both instances as long as the standards are set at a federal level to prevent states from playing fast and loose with the tests for their own political ends.

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    • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
      That sounds fine in both instances as long as the standards are set at a federal level to prevent states from playing fast and loose with the tests for their own political ends.
      I'm fine with that. Make sure we apply that to gun laws too. Liberal states are playing fast and loose with gun laws for their own political ends.
      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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      • I would certainly support having training in firearms given to all citizens, both rifle and pistol; not just safety, but also maintenance and use of these machines. Then, when you pass the test, you receive your shiny new state-issued firearms and 10,000 rounds for each.

        Requiring a permit to carry a concealed weapon is an infringement of the right to bear arms. Such pieces of paper inhibit only honest men.

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        • Originally posted by gunnut View Post
          I'm all for a mandatory training course for gun owners. Just like I'm for a competency test for all voters. Stupid and uninformed people should not be allowed to vote, or own a gun.
          Why just "gun owners"? Everybody should be taught the basics as part of a Jr high class. That, and first aid should be universal classes.
          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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          • Originally posted by bonehead View Post
            How exactly are gun owners not held to their responsibility and who gets to define those responsibilities?
            I said military standards would apply according to your consitution. It's not about denying rights but about accepting responsibility. If you don't want the responsibility, then you don't have the right.
            Chimo

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            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              I said military standards would apply according to your consitution. It's not about denying rights but about accepting responsibility. If you don't want the responsibility, then you don't have the right.
              Exactly what I was going to post.

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              • Could either or both of you be more specific.
                Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                • Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                  Could either or both of you be more specific.
                  A very short list. Everything is about safety. Any time a Marine is conducting live fire the first thing we do is review safety. A short 15 min reminder. And there is no such thing as a accidental discharge
                  Its a negligent discharge. Marines are held accountable for them. We take money, time and rank from Jr enlisted. If an NCO or above has one we take rank and the person will never see a promotion again. A special Fitness Report goes to HQMC. This includes training operations where we are using blanks.

                  So a quick couple of things ( I could spend hours) It is your responsibility as a weapon owner to Know your weapon. Nomenclature, characteristics and function of every part.
                  Cleaning. What to clean, how to clean and what to inspect when cleaning for possible failure to function.
                  Know the cycle of operation of your weapon and the function of each part during the cycle. Know what causes misifires, hangfires, failure to fire jams,, ect.
                  Know immediate action and remedial action for each type and be able to demonstrate it while observing safe practices such as muzzle awareness.
                  Know what carry condition your weapon is in at all times.
                  Never leave your weapon unsecured/unattended. Maintain positive control of your weapon. Never play with your weapon, If your not shooting or snapping in the weapon remains in the holster or at sling arms(range) or at the ready position (patrol/combat). Flagging someone with your muzzle on the range will get you thrown off. In the field you might get your clock cleaned. Even when the weapon is unloaded (Always treat a weapon as loaded)

                  Alcohol/drugs and guns don't mix. When the beer comes out the weapon gets secured. The Corps will also take away your access to a weapon (Normally for a week, up to the command and medical) whenever you have a traumatic event in your life. Death of an immediate relative, divorce or if you are put on mind altering substances (Narcotics for pain/crazy medicine).

                  Hows that for a start? Notice I haven't even touched (except for once) the 4 general safety rules yet.

                  Guns are designed to kill. We take that serious in the military

                  As far as being held responsible in the civilian world. I am a firm believer that if someone (such as a child) gets your unsecured weapon then yu should be held accountable. How many times have you seen the parents of a child where that happens go to jail? If a bartender can be charged for letting a drunk leave the bar and drive. In some states criminally as well as civil. Then you should be held responsible for your actions/or lack of when your weapon is involved.

                  But even in states where parents could be charged they usually arnt. "They have suffered enough" being the normal excuse. I'm a firm believer in Floridas 10/20/Life being applied. With a little less time. A kid gets your unsecured weapon and as an example takes it to school. You get up to 5 years. Kid fires your unsecure weapon 10 years. Kid shoots and injures someone 20-life. And yes I would include it being your child and them killing themselves or a sibling. Them maybe people would take weapon security serious.
                  Last edited by Gun Grape; 29 Jan 16,, 06:25.

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                  • I support mandatory training for use and safe storage of firearms , and for
                    de-escalating a "confrontational " situation which would preclude my use of a firearm ; but has to be paid you existing
                    Gun owners or potential gun owners and payments / cost to be recovered by means -tested sliding scale of income basis
                    . Also here is my latest " take"'on this topic : Hope more and more venture capitalists come forward to fund R & D for developing smart firearms , thus making them usable ONLY by legal legitimate owners of the firearms .

                    Since tweaking the IInd amendment of the US Constitution to allow for more humane and commonsense legislations such as annually renewable mandatory gun/firearm registration with comprehensive neuropsychiatric evaluation being one of the mandatory qualifying criteria to attain or renew registration ( paid for by taxpayers money and the payment for the cost to be made payable based on sliding scale of income and means-testing by current / prospective firearm owners ) is a very taboo topic and a potential lightning rod which no legislator nor POTUS would ever touch for fear of not getting re-elected , measures like embracing smart guns and/or making them mandatory would hopefully go a long way in making folks here in the US safer .

                    Welcome to the Future of Gun Control | Mother Jones from Mother Jones’s Tweet

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                    And I would like to reiterate to my friends and acquaintances among forum members who are already proud gun owners or who intend to be prospective gun owners , concerned folks like me , who are labeled as part of stereotypical generalizations , as "ivory tower liberals " --- that there is no insinuation nor innuendo here about confiscation of legally owned firearms . The entire discourse is being engaged in to make ownership and use of firearms safe and only direly necessary . I myself intend to be owner of a semiautomatic , compact -sized firearm in the very near future , but having said that I would NOT mind paying extra tax and /or fees for mandatory annual gun registration , for training of use and safe storage etc and also pay a reasonable chunk of dough for extra premium on my medical insurance for annual neuropsychiatric testing and other sensory testing ( such as vision and hearing testing ) as mandatory qualifying criteria for Ist time registration or renewal of firearm registration !

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                    • Gun safety, should be included in a civics curriculum. It is a civil right, that should be taught as a civil responsibility to respect and understand basic firearms safety and responsibility. One year in Elementary school, dont touch tell an adult stuff, middle/ Jr. High basic safety such as all firearms to be considered loaded, don't point at things you are not willing to destroy. High School review firearm safety and a range day with a .22.

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                      • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                        Well in 44 States crazy people can have their voting rights taken away. In some States you can have your gun rights taken for being crazy.

                        To me, that's just common sense. Although I wasn't there, I'm betting that back in the 17-1800's, we, as a community, didn't let the village idiot have a gun.
                        your right, they were locked up in an insane asylum..

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                        • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                          Gun safety, should be included in a civics curriculum. It is a civil right, that should be taught as a civil responsibility to respect and understand basic firearms safety and responsibility. One year in Elementary school, dont touch tell an adult stuff, middle/ Jr. High basic safety such as all firearms to be considered loaded, don't point at things you are not willing to destroy. High School review firearm safety and a range day with a .22.
                          when I was 11, in order to hunt with a rifle when I turned 12, I had to attend a Hunters Safety Course, I think it was a 4 day class, about 2 or 3 hours long. (didn't involve any shooting, just practical safety) of course that was 32 years ago, and I don't consciously remember anything about the class. (20 years of being in the Navy, and learning how the Navy small arms work will do that to a person)

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                          • Somehow this thread got under my radar. Thanks for the reply Gun Grape. Much of the military standards look like basic common sense.
                            Now as for the last couple of paragraphs I have a question. If a kid takes a knife out of the kitchen and stabs a neighbor would you hold the kids parents to the same standard as if the kid got his hands on an unsecured gun?
                            Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                            • Originally posted by dundonrl View Post
                              when I was 11, in order to hunt with a rifle when I turned 12, I had to attend a Hunters Safety Course, I think it was a 4 day class, about 2 or 3 hours long. (didn't involve any shooting, just practical safety) of course that was 32 years ago, and I don't consciously remember anything about the class. (20 years of being in the Navy, and learning how the Navy small arms work will do that to a person)
                              I am sure that states differ but in Oregon the general program is a classroom or computer/work at home test that has to be passed, then an all day outdoor/hands on which reinforces what was learned in class/home study and there is some non mandatory shooting. From beginning to end it was stressed that this program was the minimum and a lot more training had to happen for all the safety aspects to become second nature.
                              Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                              • Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                                ... If a kid takes a knife out of the kitchen and stabs a neighbor would you hold the kids parents to the same standard as if the kid got his hands on an unsecured gun?
                                How about hammer? The hammer is the deadliest weapon in America, used in an order of magnitude more homicides than firearms.

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