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  • I now support Obamacare

    Many employers have stopped offering company sponsored health insurance plans and giving the money directly to employees for them to shop for their own plan. This is how things should be. We buy what we think we need and shop around for the best service within our budget. NOT abuse the system because someone else is subsidizing our health care.

    I can't believe it took Obamacare to turn this system around. I'm pretty sure it's an "unintended consequence" of this poorly written law. But hey, whatever it takes to get the American people to actually care about shopping for their doctors is a good thing.

    Search for my post history. I've written years ago that the way to fix our health care system requires:

    1. De-couple employment and health insurance
    2. Allow insurance companies to do business across state borders
    3. I forgot the 3rd point I wanted to make...
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  • #2
    Gunnut! I'm shocked!

    I do agree with your first point in particular though. Having health insurance linked to your employer leads to all sorts of bizarre complications in the market.

    I think everyone "should" have some level of health insurance, if only to avoid catastrophic financial risk. Having everyone insured would also help hospitals offer more rational pricing structures since they won't have to try to balance the free care they give to those without insurance or the ability to pay by charging outrageous amounts to the rest of us.

    I actually like the idea of a federal healthcare insurance program that offers a few basic health insurance options while aiming to break even on the cost to support the bureaucracy. This will serve to prevent huge swings in the market, while private companies are free to compete by being more efficient (shouldn't be too hard) or offering more niche options.

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    • #3
      Oh my god!!!! Hell has frozen over!!!! The world is coming to an end!!!! Rapture has come!!!! Climate change is actually real now!!!!!

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      • #4
        Look where living in California got you...
        We're so bad, we're even bad at it

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        • #5
          Alright guys no need to be alarmed, Hell is only going through a mild cooling period. Just as long as we don't see gunnut endorsing Hillary Clinton for president or calling for a new UN world order under the rule of Secretary-Emperor Ban-Ki-Moon we should start seeing the place turn back into its good ol' naturally inhospitable self.




          ...huh, who knew Hell was in Michigan?
          Attached Files
          "Draft beer, not people."

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          • #6
            Hey, I support homosexual marriage, Planned Parenthood, Affirmative Action, and I am against the religious freedom act in Indiana. Not for the reasons you might expect.

            I support Obamacare not for the reason why most people support Obamacare.
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Red Team View Post
              Alright guys no need to be alarmed, Hell is only going through a mild cooling period. Just as long as we don't see gunnut endorsing Hillary Clinton for president or calling for a new UN world order under the rule of Secretary-Emperor Ban-Ki-Moon we should start seeing the place turn back into its good ol' naturally inhospitable self.

              [ATTACH]39606[/ATTACH]


              ...huh, who knew Hell was in Michigan?
              If Hell is in Michigan, then why is the kitchen so far away?
              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                Oh my god!!!! Hell has frozen over!!!! The world is coming to an end!!!! Rapture has come!!!! Climate change is actually real now!!!!!
                I never said climate change is not real. :)
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                  Gunnut! I'm shocked!

                  I do agree with your first point in particular though. Having health insurance linked to your employer leads to all sorts of bizarre complications in the market.

                  I think everyone "should" have some level of health insurance, if only to avoid catastrophic financial risk. Having everyone insured would also help hospitals offer more rational pricing structures since they won't have to try to balance the free care they give to those without insurance or the ability to pay by charging outrageous amounts to the rest of us.

                  I actually like the idea of a federal healthcare insurance program that offers a few basic health insurance options while aiming to break even on the cost to support the bureaucracy. This will serve to prevent huge swings in the market, while private companies are free to compete by being more efficient (shouldn't be too hard) or offering more niche options.
                  Yes, everyone is in favor of a program that offers some "basic" health services.

                  We just cannot agree what the word "basic" means.
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Red Team View Post

                    ...huh, who knew Hell was in Michigan?
                    What else could possibly spawn Michael Moore?

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                    • #11
                      I'm still against it - if only because I HATE people telling me what to do (which is why I've spent my adult life in the military). I'm against seat belt laws - yet, I've walked (or run) away from enough car crashes to always wear mine.

                      What gets me the most is that "health insurance" is a complete misnomer. To me, insurance is something you should have but you NEVER want to use. I don't want to use my auto insurance, because that means that my car is destroyed (again), same with house insurance. Yet with "health insurance" things that should be planned for and budgeted are taken care of and since it is a $5 - $25 copay, who cares what the "charge" is?
                      You have a small child? Guess what, you'll have to deal with an ear infection. It should be a simple doctor visit and minimal (yet realistic) charge for the amoxicillian and be done with it. It shouldn't require insurance! The insurance should be for when the kid falls out of a tree and lands wrong.

                      Just my opinion.
                      "Bother", said Poo, chambering another round.

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                      • #12
                        1. Gunnut, give me a way to regulate insurance across state lines and I am with you. Insurance companies time and again prove that regulation isneeded. But you will run up against the state' rights issue.

                        2. Tuna, health insurance is not just a luxury. It is often the safety net for a LOT of people who do work but do not make enough to save for the catostraphic events that occur. 3 years after I got out of the Army (not a retiree) my son, age 2, required open heart surgery. The insurance company negotiated a direct payment to the surgeon of $57,000. The hospital bill was another $40,000 +.

                        We ended up paying $ 17k out of pocket. It cleaned out our 401ks and all our savings. If the insurance company had not paid the larger amount we would have been bankrupt.

                        As it is insurance kept our heads above water.

                        You cannot save for everything.
                        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                        Mark Twain

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tuna View Post
                          I'm still against it - if only because I HATE people telling me what to do (which is why I've spent my adult life in the military). I'm against seat belt laws - yet, I've walked (or run) away from enough car crashes to always wear mine.

                          What gets me the most is that "health insurance" is a complete misnomer. To me, insurance is something you should have but you NEVER want to use. I don't want to use my auto insurance, because that means that my car is destroyed (again), same with house insurance. Yet with "health insurance" things that should be planned for and budgeted are taken care of and since it is a $5 - $25 copay, who cares what the "charge" is?
                          You have a small child? Guess what, you'll have to deal with an ear infection. It should be a simple doctor visit and minimal (yet realistic) charge for the amoxicillian and be done with it. It shouldn't require insurance! The insurance should be for when the kid falls out of a tree and lands wrong.

                          Just my opinion.
                          I completely agree with you.

                          What we have over the last half century, probably closer to 70 years, is a subsidized maintenance program rather than insurance. We use it for every single little thing from a cough to upset stomach to tooth ache. True insurance is for use in a catastrophic accident. We don't go to Geico or AAA for an oil change, or even to replace a fan belt. Why should we have the insurance company (the public) pay for our choice of eating tons of candy or drinking gallons of soda? Other people subsidizing our bad habits is the major reason why we have such poor health and high medical cost.

                          Obamacare did something unexpected. It forced employers to payout the subsidies to the employees and set them free to buy their own health insurance. Now people will see how much money is actually spent on their crappy life style choices. Maybe, just maybe, people will start to pay attention to their own health, shop around for the best bargain in medical procedures, and in a few decades, drive down health care cost.

                          Did Obamacare provide health care for the "millions of Americans without insurance?" I don't care.

                          Can that good for nothing artist now concentrate on his "art" without worrying about his dental bill? I don't care.
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                          • #14
                            AR, I think you misunderstood. Insurance is not a luxury, it is a hedge against catastrophe.

                            Your son's case would be a great reason for use of insurance. But like I said, your son probably got an ear infection between 2 and 5 (just guessing based on my own kids). THAT is not a case for insurance, as it should be no more than $100 (doctor's time and maybe $25 for the moxy? Realistic numbers, not what insurance companies pay). Of course, since everyone just pays a co-pay who knows what is really charged in order to pay all the bureaucrats who are now in the loop.

                            My point is that insurance is something you should have, but pray that you never need (Auto, homeowners, renters, etc). Health insurance is a complete misuse of the term - a health savings account would be a better term.
                            "Bother", said Poo, chambering another round.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Red Team View Post
                              Just as long as we don't see gunnut endorsing Hillary Clinton for president . . .
                              If that were to happen, I would truly believe that the End Times are upon is!
                              "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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