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I now support Obamacare

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Stitch View Post
    If that were to happen, I would truly believe that the End Times are upon is!
    I did vote for Hilary in the 2008 primary...
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.


    • #17
      Some food for thought from Forbes Magazine - which lets face it doesn't exactly have a 'left wing' reputation. Its about a year old but still interesting. the Link didn't want to work so I had to copy the article. It's by Dan Munro.

      __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________________

      Earlier this year, Cadillac ran a controversial TV ad that first aired during the opening ceremonies of the 2014 Winter Olympics. It was called “Poolside” and featured actor Neal McDonough extolling America’s work ethic over other countries — specifically France.

      Turns out that many of those “other countries” (including France) score better than the U.S. in one key metric not included in Cadillac’s TV spot — healthcare. At least that’s according to The Commonwealth Fund in their latest report “Mirror, Mirror On The Wall — 2014 Update” (pdf here).

      For this year’s survey on overall health care, The Commonwealth Fund ranked the U.S. dead last .

      1. United Kingdom
      2. Switzerland
      3. Sweden
      4. Australia
      5. Germany & Netherlands (tied)
      7. New Zealand & Norway (tied)
      9. France
      10. Canada
      11. United States

      It’s fairly well accepted that the U.S. is the most expensive healthcare system in the world, but many continue to falsely assume that we pay more for healthcare because we get better health (or better health outcomes). The evidence, however, clearly doesn’t support that view.

      The report itself is fairly short (32 pages), but included prior surveys and national health system scorecards as well as data from the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). The report also included a list of major findings — including these:

      Quality: The indicators of quality were grouped into four categories: effective care, safe care, coordinated care, and patient-centered care. Compared with the other 10 countries, the U.S. fares best on provision and receipt of preventive and patient-centered care.

      Access: Not surprisingly — given the absence of universal coverage — people in the U.S. go without needed health care because of cost more often than people do in the other countries.

      Efficiency: On indicators of efficiency, the U.S. ranks last among the 11 countries, with the U.K. and Sweden ranking first and second, respectively. The U.S. has poor performance on measures of national health expenditures and administrative costs as well as on measures of administrative hassles, avoidable emergency room use, and duplicative medical testing.

      Equity: The U.S. ranks a clear last on measures of equity. Americans with below-average incomes were much more likely than their counterparts in other countries to report not visiting a physician when sick; not getting a recommended test, treatment, or follow-up care; or not filling a prescription or skipping doses when needed because of costs. On each of these indicators, one-third or more lower-income adults in the U.S. said they went without needed care because of costs in the past year.

      Healthy lives: The U.S. ranks last overall with poor scores on all three indicators of healthy lives — mortality amenable to medical care, infant mortality, and healthy life expectancy at age 60. Overall, France, Sweden, and Switzerland rank highest on healthy lives.

      Perhaps the biggest single takeaway was this one:

      The most notable way the U.S. differs from other industrialized countries is the absence of universal health insurance coverage. Other nations ensure the accessibility of care through universal health systems and through better ties between patients and the physician practices that serve as their medical homes. The Commonwealth Fund “Mirror, Mirror On The Wall — 2014 Update”

      Unfortunately, many still equate “universal healthcare” with “Government run” or “single payer” healthcare. It isn’t (Universal Coverage Is Not “Single Payer” Healthcare — here).

      All of which makes Cadillac’s advertising chutzpah even more brazen. After all, it was just seven short months ago that the Government “bailout” of GM officially ended. One of the more commonly cited reasons for the dire financial predicament of the auto industry giant was always — yup — ballooning healthcare costs. Just as Starbucks SBUX -0.44% spends more on healthcare benefits than coffee beans — GM (at least in 2005) spent more on healthcare benefits than steel.

      The U.S. excels in many areas, but clearly population health (and all its related components) isn’t one of them. N’est-ce pas?
      __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________________________

      Attached Files
      Last edited by Monash; 15 Apr 15,, 09:22.
      If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.


      • #18
        Obamacare- make people who had insurance pay more to the point they can't actually see a doctor without being financially ruined. used the increased costs to inflate medicaid so you can say people are insured, even though they can't find a doctor to see them.


        • #19
          Originally posted by tuna View Post
          AR, I think you misunderstood. Insurance is not a luxury, it is a hedge against catastrophe.

          Your son's case would be a great reason for use of insurance. But like I said, your son probably got an ear infection between 2 and 5 (just guessing based on my own kids). THAT is not a case for insurance, as it should be no more than $100 (doctor's time and maybe $25 for the moxy? Realistic numbers, not what insurance companies pay). Of course, since everyone just pays a co-pay who knows what is really charged in order to pay all the bureaucrats who are now in the loop.

          My point is that insurance is something you should have, but pray that you never need (Auto, homeowners, renters, etc). Health insurance is a complete misuse of the term - a health savings account would be a better term.
          Yeah...if a doctor would only charge $75 for a visit plus prescriptions were all that cheap.

          Tuna, I hear about this on a daily basis. My wife is an executive in a hospital. I hear about all of the costs daily.

          The medical industry would prefer a single payer, national plan. They could predict costs better and streamline administration.

          Also, as an active duty member, aren't your medical costs covered? So where is your dog in this hunt?

          All that said, here is what I think would work best.

          Everyone has a government provided health care coverage which deals with the basics....annual check ups, contraception coverage (and as for religious exemption, if you as an institution operate in the public sphere you live by public rules...period. Individuals can still follow their beliefs.), non-life threatening injuries and diseases.

          Immunization is mandatory as a matter of public health (sorry Jenny McCarthy but your science sucks).

          More advanced care is available on a prioritized basis. Its triage writ large.

          As an individual you can buy additional insurance which will cover additional levels above that.

          But it ain't happening because too many businesses would be disrupted.

          And we know ALL business is good.
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain


          • #20
            That's (broadly speaking) a description of the Australian system except that higher income families pay an additional levy to help cover the national scheme and are encouraged to take out supplementary cover for ancillaries like single rooms, physio and dentistry etc. All of which while no means perfect still manages to retain broad popular support
            across all major voting blocks.
            If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.


            • #21
              Originally posted by gunnut View Post
              Yes, everyone is in favor of a program that offers some "basic" health services.

              We just cannot agree what the word "basic" means.
              Basic as in 'we won't let our citizens die or bankrupt them with the cost of keeping them alive'

              You want a particular doctor? private hospital? elective surgery? etc then pay for it or find a private supplementary insurer.

              Works here in Australia although our per capita GDP is a little higher than the US its not by much.
              The best part of repentance is the sin


              • #22
                Originally posted by chakos View Post
                Basic as in 'we won't let our citizens die or bankrupt them with the cost of keeping them alive'
                So only life saving procedures should be free, everything else is a paid service? I can live with that.

                When Medicare was first implemented in 1965, there was no such thing as a "hip replacement surgery." This procedure is now one of the most popular surgery covered under Medicare. It ain't cheap. It's not "life saving." People won't die from not receiving hip replacement surgery. They just won't live well. Their quality of life actually sucks. What say you?

                How about that expensive AIDS cocktail that keeps people alive? That should be free?

                Experimental neuro surgery?

                Originally posted by chakos View Post
                You want a particular doctor? private hospital? elective surgery? etc then pay for it or find a private supplementary insurer.
                I'm all for that. But people call me all sorts of names for suggesting this.

                Originally posted by chakos View Post
                Works here in Australia although our per capita GDP is a little higher than the US its not by much.
                Because you guys actually have some more common sense than us? If we can't get something free, then it's racism, or sexism, or ageism, or homophobic, or whatever kind of ism we can throw out until we get what we want.
                Last edited by gunnut; 02 Sep 15,, 23:29.
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.