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In the end, the Chinese got caught again and again hacking into US institutions and suffered little or no consequences
Why should the Russians stop?
Why should the Russians stop?
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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...n-hack-n696146
DEC 14 2016, 6:31 PM ET
U.S. Officials: Putin Personally Involved in U.S. Election Hack
by WILLIAM M. ARKIN, KEN DILANIAN and CYNTHIA MCFADDEN
U.S. intelligence officials now believe with "a high level of confidence" that Russian President Vladimir Putin became personally involved in the covert Russian campaign to interfere in the U.S. presidential election, senior U.S. intelligence officials told NBC News.
Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.
Putin's objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a "vendetta" against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to "split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn't depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore," the official said.
Ultimately, the CIA has assessed, the Russian government wanted to elect Donald Trump. The FBI and other agencies don't fully endorse that view, but few officials would dispute that the Russian operation was intended to harm Clinton's candidacy by leaking embarrassing emails about Democrats.
The latest intelligence said to show Putin's involvement goes much further than the information the U.S. was relying on in October, when all 17 intelligence agencies signed onto a statement attributing the Democratic National Committee hack to Russia.
The statement said officials believed that "only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities." That was an intelligence judgment based on an understanding of the Russian system of government, which Putin controls with absolute authority.
Now the U.S has solid information tying Putin to the operation, the intelligence officials say. Their use of the term "high confidence" implies that the intelligence is nearly incontrovertible.
"It is most certainly consistent with the Putin that I have watched and used to work with when I was an ambassador and in the government," said Michael McFaul, who was ambassador to Russia from 2012 to 2014.
"He has had a vendetta against Hillary Clinton, that has been known for a long time because of what she said about his elections back in the parliamentary elections of 2011. He wants to discredit American democracy and make us weaker in terms of leading the liberal democratic order. And most certainly he likes President-elect Trump's views on Russia," McFaul added. Clinton cast doubt on the integrity of Russia's elections.
As part of contingency planning for potential retaliation against Russia, according to officials, U.S. intelligence agencies have stepped up their probing into his personal financial empire.
American officials have concluded that Putin's network controls some $85 billion worth of assets, officials told NBC News.
Neither the CIA nor the Office of the Director of National Intelligence would comment.
A former CIA official who worked on Russia told NBC News that it's not clear the U.S. can embarrass Putin, given that many Russians are already familiar with allegations he has grown rich through corruption and has ordered the killings of political adversaries.
But a currently serving U.S. intelligence official said that there are things Putin is sensitive about, including anything that makes him seem weak.
The former CIA official said the Obama administration may feel compelled to respond before it leaves office.
"This whole thing has heated up so much," he said. "I can very easily see them saying, `We can't just say wow, this was terrible and there's nothing we can do.'"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac AsimovComment
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You know, when it comes to supposed intelligence it's just best to hear all see all, and say fuck all. The commentary on it simply can not be relied upon. If my internet lurking on defence boards has taught me anything it's that nothing other than primary source information interpreted by professionals in their field matters. That means not journalists and not politicians. Ironically if your any good with information delivery you're likely to get poached by industry, sign a NDA and never heard from again.Originally posted by YellowFever View PostEgo NumquamComment
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So they have concrete info showing Putin had the exact type of short term, limited and immediate payoff goals that we've been saying he had, and a few delicate straws saying he also liked Trump's expressed views on Russia.Originally posted by astralis View PostComment
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To what extent Russian hacking hurt Clinton, we'll never know, but in the battleground state of Michigan, we know Clinton hurt herself, or rather her campaign staff did.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...n-trump-232547How Clinton lost Michigan — and blew the election
Across battlegrounds, Democrats blame HQ’s stubborn commitment to a one-size-fits-all strategy.
By Edward-Isaac Dovere
12/14/16 05:08 AM ESTTo be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - PlatoComment
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This is just sad now....Comment
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There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac AsimovComment
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Top US Republican Senator Graham accuses Russia of hacking his email
Senior US Republican senator Lindsey Graham has said his campaign email account was hacked by Russians.
Sen Graham also told CNN that he believed "the Russians" hacked into the Democratic National Committee, and accused them of trying to "destabilise democracy all over the world".
Officials in Russia have repeatedly denied hacking accusations.
President-elect Donald Trump rejected a CIA report that Russian hackers tried to sway the election in his favour.
In a separate development, NBC News reported that US intelligence officials now believe with "a high level of confidence" that Russian President Vladimir Putin became personally involved in a covert Russian campaign to interfere in November's presidential election.
The attack targeted emails of the Democratic Party and of John Podesta, a key aide to presidential nominee Hillary Clinton. The contents, passed to Wikileaks and posted online, were embarrassing to the Democrats and shook up the presidential campaign.
The NBC report, quoting two unnamed senior officials, says that new intelligence shows how the hacked material was leaked and used.
It added that the operation began as a "vendetta" against Mrs Clinton before becoming "an effort to show corruption in American politics and split off key American allies".
Mr Putin is said to have been furious when Mrs Clinton, as secretary of state, questioned the integrity of 2011 parliamentary elections in Russia. He publicly accused her of encouraging street protests.Comment
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So we start off with a big headline:
GOP voters warm to Russia, Putin, WikiLeaks, poll finds
Then we get to the meat of the matter.....
The poll results about the trade was released on Spetmeber 24.After Donald Trump seized the Republican presidential nomination, pollsters found the party's voters shifting their opinions on trade to match up with the candidate. On Wednesday, new polling by YouGov finds a similar phenomenon moving Republican views of WikiLeaks and Russian President Vladimir Putin, with the party's voters increasingly fond of both.
It's not even a poll but a survey.
Has nothing to do with the headline.
Then we get to the "poll" conducted by You Gov about "warming up" to Russia and Putin.
YouGov?????
YouGov????
Seriously??????????
An online polling website where anyone can just click in and vote????
WaPo, NYT, CNN and other MSM are no longer anymore accurate than Alex Jones or Breibert.
Like I said....sad...Last edited by YellowFever; 15 Dec 16,, 16:07.Comment
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Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View PostNot sure who your source is as you didn't provide a link, but this is an example of using half-truths for the purpose of promoting a narrative. The attacks targeted many political figures and groups on both sides. Some were just more successful than others.The attack targeted emails of the Democratic Party and of John Podesta, a key aide to presidential nominee Hillary Clinton. The contents, passed to Wikileaks and posted online, were embarrassing to the Democrats and shook up the presidential campaign.
This just doesn't fly either. If it this is correct then why would they try to hack the RNC and McCain, and Graham and other republican groups to get at Clinton?it added that the operation began as a "vendetta" against Mrs Clinton before becoming "an effort to show corruption in American politics and split off key American allies".Comment
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YF,
er....that's not how YouGov poll methodology works...Then we get to the "poll" conducted by You Gov about "warming up" to Russia and Putin.
YouGov?????
YouGov????
Seriously??????????
An online polling website where anyone can just click in and vote????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouGov
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac AsimovComment
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if anyone wants to get into the weeds, here are the two specific polls compared:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...nTabReport.pdf
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...nTabReport.pdf
last page contains methodology + margin of error calculations.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac AsimovComment
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Firstly, can anyone download that and post it here?
Asty?
My phone says starting download but then nothing
Secondly , more importantly, you're still using polls to make whatever point you wanted to make.
If polls were accurate we'd be lamenting preside elect Clinton now. :)
What IS the point you're trying to make anyway?Comment
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YF,
we're talking about polls because you brought up polls. there's good polls (and YouGov is a reasonably good one) and there's crap polls, such as the Time internet site surveys.Secondly , more importantly, you're still using polls to make whatever point you wanted to make.
If polls were accurate we'd be lamenting preside elect Clinton now.
there's a LOT of misunderstanding about "poll accuracy", ironically from every side nowadays. there's a bunch of pissed off HRC supporters whom think the "polls/Nate Silver/etc lied" when you're talking about results that were within the margin of error.
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in any case, the point from the original article is this: Donald Trump is normalizing for GOP voters a whole host of things that the GOP was previously against. obviously Russia/Putin is of the most immediate interest right now, but on other things ranging from free trade to stimulus to international engagement in general.
one of the surprising things about this election is seeing how Trump's (mercurial, depends-on-whom-talked-to-him-last) support for any one thing can so completely change the GOP electorate's view on things too. i would not have thought Wikileaks and Putin would be things that would experience a sudden dramatic spike in popularity due to Trump, but here we are.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac AsimovComment
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