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The 2016 US General Election

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  • During the election Trump flung a lot of mud at his opposition both Democrats and Republicans, and got pelted himself.
    Now I'm wondering about the amount of ill will; from both sides, he'll face in Congress.
    From covering local elections, I know that things said in the heat of an election, can and have been remembered down the line.
    So is it that politicians at that level are infinitely more pragmatic and thick skinned? The "Sticks and Stones may..." type?
    Or maybe the "Ides of March" type? Waiting for the right time and place to plant the knife?
    Last edited by TopHatter; 13 Dec 16,, 02:29.
    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

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    • Sorry about the font slip!!!
      When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post

        It's time to stop beating this dead horse. The dems and Clinton (for the sake of posterity) would gain much favor among American if they henceforth downplayed the hacking issue, pledged to work with the incoming president, and, at the very least, acknowledged that he is their president, too, as I have done. The country needs a break from all this. Come on, Hillary, speak up!
        We know that's not going to happen though (though I bet you had fun typing it :-) ). All indications I've seen are the Dems are going to double down on the politics of division. They're still going to run with that model because it kept them in power for eight years. It'll take another slaughter in the midterms before their thinning base revolts.
        As for the agencies based on Trumps remarks the CIA's only real hope seems to be to work at undermining Trump prior to the inauguration.
        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

        Leibniz

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        • Yep, as I thought.

          Here comes chapter 2 of this saga.

          Do Democrats have no scruples or morals?

          Fuck 'em.



          Clinton camp backs intel briefing for electors

          By SARAH WESTWOOD (@SARAHCWESTWOOD) • 12/12/16 1:07 PM


          Hillary Clinton's former presidential campaign chairman said Monday he supports a demand from presidential electors that they receive a secure intelligence briefing on how Russia may have helped President-elect Trump win the White House, before next week's Electoral College vote next week.

          "The bipartisan electors' letter raises very grave issues involving our national security," John Podesta said in a statement Monday, according to Politico. "Electors have a solemn responsibility under the Constitution and we support their efforts to have their questions addressed."


          Hours earlier, the daughter of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi wrote a letter, alongside nine other electors, in which she called on Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to grant electors a briefing on alleged Russian interference on behalf of President-elect Trump's campaign.

          "Each day that month, our campaign decried the interference of Russia in our campaign and its evident goal of hurting our campaign to aid Donald Trump," Podesta said. "Despite our protestations, this matter did not receive the attention it deserved by the media in the campaign. We now know that the CIA has determined Russia's interference in our elections was for the purpose of electing Donald Trump. This should distress every American"

          In their letter, the 10 Electoral College members insisted that they receive a briefing ahead of next Monday's meeting about any possible investigations into Russia, and any evidence those investigations have turned up.

          "The Electors require to know from the intelligence community whether there are ongoing investigations into ties between Donald Trump, his campaign or associates, and Russian government interference in the election, the scope of those investigations, how far those investigations may have reached, and who was involved in those investigations," the group of nine Democrats and one Republican wrote.

          "We further require a briefing on all investigative findings, as these matters directly impact the core factors in our deliberations of whether Mr. Trump is fit to serve as President of the United States," they added.

          The group said they would like Trump himself to provide "conclusive evidence" that his campaign did not coordinate with the Russians during the election.

          In addition to Pelosi's daughter, the group also features one incoming member of Congress — Carol Shea-Porter, a former congresswoman who recently won her seat back to the lower chamber.

          The group did not say whether it plans to join efforts to deny Trump the presidency through the Electoral College. But it was released a day after Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn., called on the Electoral College to stop Trump and deny him the White House.

          Members of the Electoral College are slated to meet in their respective states on Dec. 19 and officially elect Trump president. Those opposing Trump are trying to push 37 Republicans to vote against him in the Electoral College vote, which would throw the election to the House of Representatives.
          http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2609432/


          And Hilary herself is sitting there like an angel with nary a peep coming from her. :roll eye:
          Last edited by YellowFever; 13 Dec 16,, 02:55.

          Comment


          • From the Washington Examiner article posted by YF:

            The group said they would like Trump himself to provide "conclusive evidence" that his campaign did not coordinate with the Russians during the election.

            This would require Trump to prove a negative.

            In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence as positive proof of its non-occurrence. (bold added)

            — Irving Copi, Introduction to Logic
            To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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            • So wait a minute, I thought Fancy Bear and Guccifer 2.0 hacked into the DNC servers and they are speculating that might be true but the hack into John Podesta's email (the one that supposedly damaged Clinton during the election) was a gmail account??????

              And it wasn't some diabolical virus or worm but by PHISHING?????

              Phishing that every snot nosed kid do that gets countless thousands of gmails hacked every year?????

              Holy shit, this is getting dumber by the minute.
              Last edited by YellowFever; 13 Dec 16,, 03:25.

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              • JAD,

                This would require Trump to prove a negative.
                of course, when has non-falsifiable claims ever stopped a partisan? :-)

                i still think asking -HRC- to show "leadership" when our own President-Elect is generally twittering away and acting like a belligerent fool is a bit much to ask. she has done everyone a service by being quiet about this whole thing, which is rather more than we could have expected were roles reversed.

                YF,

                And it wasn't some diabolical virus or worm but by PHISHING?????
                you'd be surprised how often this works...most "hacking" is just stuff like this. ref: the saga of "robin sage":

                http://www.slate.com/articles/techno..._phishing.html

                to podesta's credit, he actually identified it as suspicious to IT, but instructions for disposing of it was garbled.
                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                Comment


                • Originally posted by astralis View Post

                  YF,

                  you'd be surprised how often this works...most "hacking" is just stuff like this. ref: the saga of "robin sage":

                  http://www.slate.com/articles/techno..._phishing.html

                  to podesta's credit, he actually identified it as suspicious to IT, but instructions for disposing of it was garbled.
                  My point is that the fact that the I.P. that hacked it came from Russia or Eastern Europe is being paraded around as one of the "evidence" and that shouldn't prove a damn thing.

                  There seems to be a huge "job market" for that sort of thing in that part of the world.....and I.P.s are easy to fake.

                  I started this a few pages ago believing there was a Russian sponsored hack.

                  Now, studying up on the hack and method, it's more likely it was the proverbial kid in the basement in his underwear.

                  Comment


                  • lol, guess everyone's a cybersecurity intel analyst now.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • Prove what I said wrong.

                      And there isn't a damn piece of evidence that's been released that refutes or collaborates any of what we're talking about....only stupid headlines by partial journalists.

                      Oh , that jives nicely with what I said about Barry being stupid on how he handled this.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                        JAD,



                        i still think asking -HRC- to show "leadership" when our own President-Elect is generally twittering away and acting like a belligerent fool is a bit much to ask.

                        I was thinking of the good of the country. That's too much to ask, I suppose. Clinton doesn't do much unless it's for Clinton.


                        ...she has done everyone a service by being quiet about this whole thing, which is rather more than we could have expected were roles reversed.

                        Fair supposition. She has been quiet. Podesta is out front: Sort of like Madison for Jefferson back in 1800.






                        Frankly, I think Trump has been acting a bit childish about this whole thing. He could wind it down. First, he would ask for a full CIA briefing. Then, without saying whether he agrees or disagrees with the CIA findings, he would announce that 's he is on board for a full Congressional investigation.
                        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                        Comment


                        • Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Bolton's comments re false flag were blasted by some media outlets. What do you think? Is this the way Trump should approach the issue?


                          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                            Frankly, I think Trump has been acting a bit childish about this whole thing. He could wind it down. First, he would ask for a full CIA briefing. Then, without saying whether he agrees or disagrees with the CIA findings, he would announce that 's he is on board for a full Congressional investigation.

                            Nah.

                            Even if Trump did what you suggest, do you see anything in the Democrat's track record in the last month indicating they won't create another scandal?

                            This story, like the recount and like every other story, will slowly die away with no conclusion.

                            The mud has been slung and the "real media" will be off to other things in a few days.

                            Speaking of which, the Wisconsin recount is done and Trump won with a bigger margin.

                            I wonder if MSNBC or CNN is going to report that...

                            Man, the Russian election hack works great.

                            It keeps helping even a month afterwards.
                            Last edited by YellowFever; 13 Dec 16,, 05:39.

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                            • Cost Jill a pretty penny... I think she earned a footnote in US political history.

                              http://www.thenorthwestern.com/story...nsin/95328294/

                              Recount confirms Trump's victory in Wisconsin
                              Jason Stein , Milwaukee Journal Sentinel 7:28 p.m. CST December 12, 2016
                              636167070007082768-AAPBrd-12-02-2016-Reporter-1-A003-2016-12-01-IMG-FON-120116-ballot-re-1-1-DTGJSR90-L930242478-IMG-FON-120116-ballot-re-1-1-DTGJSR90.jpgBuy Photo

                              (Photo: Doug Raflik/USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin)
                              635 CONNECTTWEETLINKEDIN 115 COMMENTEMAILMORE

                              Madison — Republican President-elect Donald Trump’s victory in Wisconsin was reaffirmed Monday following a presidential recount that showed him defeating Democrat Hillary Clinton by more than 22,000 votes.

                              Clerks around Wisconsin rushed to recount nearly 3 million ballots ahead of a federal deadline on Tuesday, but in the end little changed, with Trump adding just 131 votes to his margin.

                              "We all knew from the beginning that the outcome wouldn't change. We said that from day one," said Wisconsin Election Commission Chairman Mark Thomsen, a Democrat.

                              The commission finishes with a day to spare before a federal deadline for the state to finish and ensure that Wisconsin's 10 votes will be counted in the electoral college, which decides the presidency.

                              Green Party presidential nominee Jill Stein paid $3.5 million to force the Wisconsin recount and has tried unsuccessfully to get statewide recounts in Michigan and Pennsylvania, where courts have stopped them. Wisconsin’s recount uncovered no massive problems and no hacking of any Wisconsin election device or computer as Stein and her supporters had suggested, without evidence, that there might have been.

                              "None of that has been found," Don Millis, a Republican on the commission, said of the alleged hacking.
                              Trump gained more votes

                              In the end, Clinton gained 713 votes over her previous total, but Trump gained 844.

                              The cost to Stein and her supporters was thousands of dollars for every vote changed.

                              The Stein campaign didn't give final numbers on how much she has raised or spent on the recount efforts, saying that her campaign would hold a call with reporters Tuesday to discuss them further.
                              more...
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                              • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                                From the Washington Examiner article posted by YF:




                                This would require Trump to prove a negative.
                                Love the Copi quote, a much underestimated logician.

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