The 2016 US General Election

[GVChamp]

More than likely. I can think of one issue where they would need misdirection and that is Ryan's plan to repeal the Affordable Care Act and at the same time talk about ending Medicare by giving seniors vouchers for buying on their own. The man is clueless about real costs. One could call that the Senior Unaffordable Care Act. I love the fact that this guy is guaranteed health care for life with taxpayers paying for it.

It's really tough to buy stuff on your own. That's why depriving people of choice is great, and why the Soviet Union won the Cold War and North Korea is now settling Mars. I couldn't even attend Castro's funeral: The rich Cubans in their flying government cars crowded up the skies.

Yes, I'm being slightly pedantic, but if you want single-payer healthcare, you can always just use the VA, run by the most respected Senator Bernie Sanders. A wonderful system with absolutely no scandals and no accessibility issues. This idea that government is just a magic wand that can waive away all inefficiencies and problems is a fantasy delusion that should've died in the 19th Century.

[bonehead]

bonehead,

A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast (Aug 2014)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a4a9486f555b

The Success of the Voter Fraud Myth (Sept 2016)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/op...myth.html?_r=0

By the Numbers: Voter Fraud (Oct 2016)
http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonwe...rs-voter-fraud

Number of voter fraud cases since 2000: 44 cases out of 1 billion votes cast
(8 of which involve more than one ballot affected). Rate: 0.0000044%.

2012 voter turnout: 129,085,403. Number of voter fraud cases: 4.


Then, there’s the oft-rebuked story based on 22 (!) survey responses: A new study by two Old Dominion University professors, based on survey data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, found that 6.4% of all noncitizens voted illegally.

Pure hogwash.

DOR you forgot that voter fraud convictions isnt a high priority. Like I said before, only the verry sloppy get caught, but that does not mean it isnt happening. Ignore the political BS and use some common sense.

Now take the liberal bias of the press coverage in illinois. The papers decry "voter suppression" as the state legislature couldnt overturn a governors veto of a law that would have automatically added millions of registrations. Voter suppression my ass. All it means is that those that actually want to get registered are going to have to get off their fat lazy asses, show some ID (gasp) fill out a form and turn it in. Now you tell me DOR. Would the same paper that slanted to the insanity of "voter suppression" actually tell you how many real cases of voter fraud that is being committed by their fellow liberals. These media outlets wouldn't lie to you would they?

[astralis]

GVChamp,

Yes, I'm being slightly pedantic, but if you want single-payer healthcare, you can always just use the VA, run by the most respected Senator Bernie Sanders. A wonderful system with absolutely no scandals and no accessibility issues. This idea that government is just a magic wand that can waive away all inefficiencies and problems is a fantasy delusion that should've died in the 19th Century.

there are -some- places where the invisible hand simply isn't very effective. healthcare is one of them, simply because people move away from being economic units and actually being...people.

[Parihaka]

GVChamp,



there are -some- places where the invisible hand simply isn't very effective. healthcare is one of them, simply because people move away from being economic units and actually being...people.

Exactly. Socialism as a tool, can actually be very useful. At times. In limited quantities.

[GVChamp]

Obviously there are cases where the market fails, but putting a blanket failure around "healthcare" isn't really informative or even really an answer. I absolutely feel like a person at my GP. He knows me, he knows my Mom, he knows my Dad. He likes the Blackhawks.
I do not feel like a person at the DMV, nor do I receive good customer service. My 2 week turn-around time for a voter registration change was actually 6 months.

Just saying "healthcare should be nationalized" rationalizes nationalizing just about everything in the US economy. Food? That affects diet, that's definitely healthcare. Nationalized. Which means we need to nationalize the farms: collective farms are superior at healthcare. We need to nationalize the auto companies, obviously: their pollution affects healthcare. We need to nationalize all the forests, because healthcare (and CO2).

We absolutely have to nationalize all land. Hospitals operate on land, that's healthcare too. Where do doctors learn? Colleges? Nationalize all the colleges, because healthcare.

Just saying "private companies can't offer healthcare because health" isn't a nuanced policy response.

[DOR]

DOR you forgot that voter fraud convictions isnt a high priority. Like I said before, only the verry sloppy get caught, but that does not mean it isnt happening. Ignore the political BS and use some common sense.

Now take the liberal bias of the press coverage in Illinois. The papers decry "voter suppression" as the state legislature couldnt overturn a governors veto of a law that would have automatically added millions of registrations. Voter suppression my ass. All it means is that those that actually want to get registered are going to have to get off their fat lazy asses, show some ID (gasp) fill out a form and turn it in. Now you tell me DOR. Would the same paper that slanted to the insanity of "voter suppression" actually tell you how many real cases of voter fraud that is being committed by their fellow liberals. These media outlets wouldn't lie to you would they?

Astonishingly, not one of the sources I cited was influenced by the "liberal bias of the press coverage in Illinois."
Not one!

Even more astonishingly, arrests and convictions are the benchmarks by which crimes are measured.

[Parihaka]

Just saying "private companies can't offer healthcare because health" isn't a nuanced policy response.

Nor is the 'thin end of the wedge' argument. There's international evidence aplenty that a public health system funded through taxation, with or without private partnership, gets health care to everyone at a significantly smaller cost than the partial care provided in the US, with better outcomes.
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ...al-perspective

[GVChamp]

Nor is the 'thin end of the wedge' argument. There's international evidence aplenty that a public health system funded through taxation, with or without private partnership, gets health care to everyone at a significantly smaller cost than the partial care provided in the US, with better outcomes.
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ...al-perspective

The US government at all levels spends more on health care than most other nations. If the US government COULD run an effective system like other nations, it'd already be DONE.

You can't just import another nation's healthcare system, and assume you will have the same costs. That's not how the world works.

The VA sure ain't a world-class organization running circles around all other countries.

[Parihaka]

The US government at all levels spends more on health care than most other nations. If the US government COULD run an effective system like other nations, it'd already be DONE.

You can't just import another nation's healthcare system, and assume you will have the same costs. That's not how the world works.

The VA sure ain't a world-class organization running circles around all other countries.

Yup, which is where political appointments and civil service comes in. Stop appointing political hacks as heads of state bureaucracies. Hire CEO's like everyone else, give them a budget, performance targets and get the hell out.

[TopHatter]

You can't just import another nation's healthcare system, and assume you will have the same costs. That's not how the world works.

Liberals sure as shit think you can.

[bonehead]

Astonishingly, not one of the sources I cited was influenced by the "liberal bias of the press coverage in Illinois."
Not one!

Even more astonishingly, arrests and convictions are the benchmarks by which crimes are measured.

Hmmm Lets see. Liberals say there is no voting fraud. Anything less than anyone walking willy nilly in a voting booth is "voter suppression" according to liberals. Then the story in Illinois. if you can not connect the dots of the liberal establishment the liberal press, and voting.......there really is no help for you.

What is commen sence is that if a cop catches one speeder on the road there are plenty more speeders that didn't get caught. You really thing every shoplifter gets caught? That is odd as only a percentage get caught but the store gets to pay for ALL the missing merchandice and usually passes that expencse to the rest of the shoppers. You may think that is astonishing but it really isn't. Now you can pretend that there are no people voting illegally if you want but I know better.

[GVChamp]

Liberals sure as shit think you can.

One told me the Chicago Public School system really isn't that bad.

She also needs to live San Francisco. It's where everything happens.

[chakos]

Yes, I'm being slightly pedantic, but if you want single-payer healthcare, you can always just use the VA, run by the most respected Senator Bernie Sanders. A wonderful system with absolutely no scandals and no accessibility issues. This idea that government is just a magic wand that can waive away all inefficiencies and problems is a fantasy delusion that should've died in the 19th Century.

Except that most of the first world has a perfectly functioning single payer systems that do quite well. I don't understand why the US considers itself so different from other countries that some hybrid of what already works well in the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand would fail so miserably there. All nations have immigration issues, incompetent governments, a large welfare base etc yet they seem to make it work. There are no death panels, no year long waiting lists for unelective surgery, no financial ruin. It just fucking works.

I read article after article about Americans literally dying because they cant afford treatment for complex diseases due to medical insurance fucking them over and there have not been riots on the streets.

My auntie fought cancer for 10 years before finally succumbing. She didn't have a penny to her name. Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical and medicinal expenses were racked up and apart from a very small amount the government funded every last penny till she dropped. If you can't offer that to your populace then you have no place calling yourself a first world country.

[tbm3fan]

Hmmm Lets see. Liberals say there is no voting fraud. Anything less than anyone walking willy nilly in a voting booth is "voter suppression" according to liberals. Then the story in Illinois. if you can not connect the dots of the liberal establishment the liberal press, and voting.......there really is no help for you.

What is commen sence is that if a cop catches one speeder on the road there are plenty more speeders that didn't get caught. You really thing every shoplifter gets caught? That is odd as only a percentage get caught but the store gets to pay for ALL the missing merchandice and usually passes that expencse to the rest of the shoppers. You may think that is astonishing but it really isn't. Now you can pretend that there are no people voting illegally if you want but I know better.

That is downright amazing logic. So I would assume for every bank robber caught there are many more banks being robbed across the country where they get away every day.

[tbm3fan]

The US government at all levels spends more on health care than most other nations. If the US government COULD run an effective system like other nations, it'd already be DONE.

You can't just import another nation's healthcare system, and assume you will have the same costs. That's not how the world works.

The VA sure ain't a world-class organization running circles around all other countries.

It's called Medicare which I have been intimately involved and familiar with for 34 years.