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The 2016 US General Election

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  • Originally posted by DOR View Post
    Sufficient jobs isn't the problem; the problem is that too many people think they are entitled to the same standard of living previous generations EARNED. If you're working in the same blue collar job Daddy did 30 years ago, it is only logical to assume that you won't be as well compensated. Why would you? You're doing something that could be done 30 years ago!

    The best final count data is at thegreensheets.com, but even they can't get past what's counted/repoted.
    You're speaking to the choir. Now try getting that across to your blue collar worker in the Rust Belt. People always hope that their kids will do better than they do. Pretty much a given in their thoughts or all our thoughts. What you said turns that upside down and you probably wouldn't make any friends telling them such. Just sayin'

    Trump promised so much to them and most put their family income first. Four years from now if nothing improves in their pockets I would ask to borrow "are you better off than you were four years ago"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
      You're speaking to the choir. Now try getting that across to your blue collar worker in the Rust Belt. People always hope that their kids will do better than they do. Pretty much a given in their thoughts or all our thoughts. What you said turns that upside down and you probably wouldn't make any friends telling them such. Just sayin'

      Trump promised so much to them and most put their family income first. Four years from now if nothing improves in their pockets I would ask to borrow "are you better off than you were four years ago"
      so I am going to do what I hate...

      when Obama was elected 8 years ago and promised hope and change and better life for everyone and blah blah blah... transparency etc etc etc...

      4 years from now I would ask... can repub's borrow 'It was Obama's fault... we inherited this mess....'?

      rinse wash repeat.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
        There was a study done in California about 7 years ago that indicated that illegals all going home would cost the state anywhere from a billion dollars to 5 billion in lost revenue for the state.

        The left, of course, jumped on this and used it as proof that illegals are good for the economy.

        Of course there was another part of this study that said California spend appx. 10 to 30 billion a year on illegals.

        This part was, of course, totally igored by the Democrats.

        Monetary gains or losses should have nothing to do with this decision.

        And no one is talking about forcefully deporting 11 million illegals. As Z said, give the employers an incentive to hire legals over the illegals using both the carrot and the stick.

        The illegals will self deport when the jobs dry up and the welfare benefits stop.
        Yellow:

        Objectively, the economic issue of deportation or self-deportation has to be considered, whether we like it or not. If we decide on taking the principled route that illegals have to go simply because we want to observe the rule of law, we have to accept whatever economic consequences come of it. If the damage is substantial but the public continues to support deportation, then the public cannot blame the government for whatever hardship they suffer later. Thus, it's important to know what if any economic damage might be done by forcing illegals out of the country.
        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

        Comment


        • Hey JAD,

          Sorry to sound flippant but we can blame the government either way for this one.

          They're the ones that caused this problem in the first place by looking the other way and if and when we do "deport" them, we can blame them if the process turns out to hurt us econmically



          Bottom line, they got us into this shit in the first place and if extracting ourselves from this turns out to be painful, well hell, they should be the ones to take the blame also

          Comment


          • Is this not the free market, rather than the government? There is an extend you can regulate supply and demand, but 1. the farming industry needs them and 2. I don't see a ready workforce for mass-production farm work to replace the the illegal immigrants.

            Farm work is technically un-skilled on the economic sense, but it's demanding of physical stamina and agricultural knowledge. Where are you going to replace them?

            With native-born workers paid more to produce less, are you OK with rising prices of food? Are Americans really robbed of the great jobs working on the farm, or benefited from extra revenue, the additional economic activities they stimulated?

            Now if you want to call me bleeding heart, go ahead. But those people whose crime it was to cross the border to work and contribute to your economy, what harm had they done? Are you going to send them home to some fouled up narco-war that they tried to run from? Even though legislative efforts to improve path to citizenship and agricultural work permits were killed?

            Because clearly, 2-3 mil is a larger number than the last assessments of illegal immigrants with violent crime convictions.
            Last edited by Triple C; 15 Nov 16,, 21:34.
            All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
            -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

            Comment


            • Change the laws than. Allow them to be legal for as long as it is needed and when they are not needed, take them out. If some of them wants to become US citizens, there are also ways. It's an insult for those waiting in lines for visas, green cards and what not to become citizens.
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                Is this not the free market, rather than the government? There is an extend you can regulate supply and demand, but 1. the farming industry needs them and 2. I don't see a ready workforce for mass-production farm work to replace the the illegal immigrants.

                Farm work is technically un-skilled on the economic sense, but it's demanding of physical stamina and agricultural knowledge. Where are you going to replace them?

                With native-born workers paid more to produce less, are you OK with rising prices of food? Are Americans really robbed of the great jobs working on the farm, or benefited from extra revenue, the additional economic activities they stimulated?

                Now if you want to call me bleeding heart, go ahead. But those people whose crime it was to cross the border to work and contribute to your economy, what harm had they done? Are you going to send them home to some fouled up narco-war that they tried to run from? Even though legislative efforts to improve path to citizenship and agricultural work permits were killed?

                Because clearly, 2-3 mil is a larger number than the last assessments of illegal immigrants with violent crime convictions.




                The removal of illegal workers from the seasonal agricultural workforce would increase the summer-fall supermarket prices of fresh fruits and vegetables by about 6 percent in the short run and 3 percent in the intermediate term. During the winter-spring seasons, prices would rise more than 3 percent in the short term and less then 2 percent in the intermediate term. Imports would increase about 1 percent.
                http://cis.org/ProducePrices-WithoutIllegalFarmworkers

                Comment



                • Yellow:

                  This organization is biased along the lines of the Heritage Foundation--right leaning and supportive of GOP candidates. Not saying that is a bad thing, just that they use statistics to support their political view rather than the other way around. At least they're open about it.
                  To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                    Is this not the free market, rather than the government? There is an extend you can regulate supply and demand, but 1. the farming industry needs them and 2. I don't see a ready workforce for mass-production farm work to replace the the illegal immigrants.

                    Farm work is technically un-skilled on the economic sense, but it's demanding of physical stamina and agricultural knowledge. Where are you going to replace them?

                    With native-born workers paid more to produce less, are you OK with rising prices of food? Are Americans really robbed of the great jobs working on the farm, or benefited from extra revenue, the additional economic activities they stimulated?

                    Now if you want to call me bleeding heart, go ahead. But those people whose crime it was to cross the border to work and contribute to your economy, what harm had they done? Are you going to send them home to some fouled up narco-war that they tried to run from? Even though legislative efforts to improve path to citizenship and agricultural work permits were killed?

                    Because clearly, 2-3 mil is a larger number than the last assessments of illegal immigrants with violent crime convictions.
                    So nothing should change? Is that your argument?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                      Yellow:

                      This organization is biased along the lines of the Heritage Foundation--right leaning and supportive of GOP candidates. Not saying that is a bad thing, just that they use statistics to support their political view rather than the other way around. At least they're open about it.
                      So what are the correct numbers then?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Wooglin View Post
                        So what are the correct numbers then?
                        Lies, damn lies and statistics was the saying, IIRC.
                        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                          Is this not the free market, rather than the government? There is an extend you can regulate supply and demand, but 1. the farming industry needs them and 2. I don't see a ready workforce for mass-production farm work to replace the the illegal immigrants.

                          Farm work is technically un-skilled on the economic sense, but it's demanding of physical stamina and agricultural knowledge. Where are you going to replace them?

                          With native-born workers paid more to produce less, are you OK with rising prices of food? Are Americans really robbed of the great jobs working on the farm, or benefited from extra revenue, the additional economic activities they stimulated?

                          Now if you want to call me bleeding heart, go ahead. But those people whose crime it was to cross the border to work and contribute to your economy, what harm had they done? Are you going to send them home to some fouled up narco-war that they tried to run from? Even though legislative efforts to improve path to citizenship and agricultural work permits were killed?

                          Because clearly, 2-3 mil is a larger number than the last assessments of illegal immigrants with violent crime convictions.
                          No, those people can be brought back in under work visa's.

                          Something Trump has talked about doing.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by zraver View Post

                            * Absentee and provisional votes are only counted if the early/general election vote is close. For example, if Candidate A wins the popular early/GE vote by 10,000 votes but there are 10,0001 absentee and provisional then the absentee/ provisional votes get counted. If there are 9,998 provisional and absentee ballots they don't get counted because even if they all went for candidate B they would not change the out come. In many states Trumps win was so large than hundreds of thousands or millions of votes will never be counted. Given that these votes generally go 2/3rds for the GOP this means Trump might well have won the popular vote if all votes were counted.

                            .
                            Not true. At least according to my local elections official. Every vote is counted. Remember, the election isn't just about the Presidential race.

                            In Florida the Official voting results are due 12 days after the general election. This allows the local canvassing boards to count all absentee, overseas and provisional ballots.

                            I would bet it is the same for every State.

                            http://enight.elections.myflorida.com/

                            Comment


                            • The funny thing is when the mayors of so called sanctuary cities are asked what if they lose federal money due to their city status and they all answer that they do not take finances into the equation.

                              They say they are all doing it because it's "the right thing to".

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Wooglin View Post
                                So what are the correct numbers then?

                                I don't know and don't dispute them. The point was, the group is biased? http://cis.org/ProducePrices-WithoutIllegalFarmworkers
                                To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                                Comment

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