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Double standards by US.US firm found guilty of underpaying Indians at $1.22 an hour.

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  • DarthSiddius
    replied
    Not trying to necro-post but this is relevant. A trove of good steps but as usual India shies away from absolute commitments to reduce emissions.

    India Pledges Clean-Energy Push in UN Climate Submission

    India, the world’s third-biggest polluter, pledged to slow the rise of greenhouse gases produced by its growing economy and to rapidly build up clean-energy sources, becoming the last major country to submit its plan for tackling global warming emissions.

    In a plan filed to the United Nations Thursday, India said it would reduce its “emissions intensity” -- the amount of pollution released for each unit of economic growth -- by 33 percent to 35 percent below 2005 levels by 2030. The country also set a goal of having 40 percent of its installed electric capacity powered by non-fossil-fuel sources by 2030.

    The pledge reflects Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s challenge in balancing the desire to build India’s economy with the need to be seen as a participant in the global push to reach an international accord to battle climate change. India’s policymakers have long argued that the richest countries shoulder the greatest responsibility in combating global warming.

    The country’s “strong climate plan offers a comprehensive approach to curb the worst impacts of climate change,” said Rhea Suh, president of the New York-based Natural Resources Defense Council. “India now has positioned itself as a global leader in clean energy, and is poised to play an active and influential role in the international climate negotiations.”

    India’s pledge, detailed in a document infused with references to Mother Earth and the ancient Indian practice of yoga, arrived at the deadline set by the UN for countries to file their pollution-cutting plans, commitments that form the heart of a deal nations hope to complete in Paris in December. India was the last holdout among major economies and its cooperation was seen as critical for producing a credible strategy to hold down rising temperatures.

    Renewables Pledge

    The 38-page plan calls for a doubling of India’s current share of electricity provided by clean-energy sources. That’s contingent on international financing to help afford the shift away from fossil fuels, India said.

    Unlike other major countries like China and the U.S., India’s plan doesn’t commit the country to an absolute reduction in carbon emissions levels. Instead, the plan acknowledges that India’s emissions will continue to grow, albeit at a slower pace than if the nation had taken no action.

    “Nations that are now striving to fulfill this ‘right to grow’ of their teeming millions cannot be made to feel guilty of their development agenda as they attempt to fulfill this legitimate aspiration,” India said in its submission. “Just because economic development of many countries in the past has come at the cost of environment, it should not be presumed that a reconciliation of the two is not possible.”

    More controversially, the plan says coal will continue to dominate power generation in the future, a point of friction with environmental groups that say the fossil fuel should be phased out. Coal-based power currently accounts for almost 61 percent of India’s installed capacity, according to the INDC submission.

    Though Modi has vowed an aggressive expansion of renewables such as wind, solar and hydroelectric capacity, the challenges remain huge. Currently, India has as many people with little or no access to electricity as there are Americans.

    Coal Demand

    Under one scenario presented by the International Energy Agency last year, coal demand in India is projected to more than double between 2012 and 2040.

    “India’s continued commitment to expand coal power capacity is baffling,” Greenpeace India said in a statement. “Further expansion of coal power will hamper India’s development prospects, by worsening the problems of air quality and water scarcity as well as contributing to the destruction of forests and the displacement of communities.”

    While India’s emissions of carbon dioxide are about one-quarter China’s and one-third of the U.S., its release of global-warming gases is accelerating. India’s carbon dioxide emissions from energy use rose 8.1 percent in 2014, making it the world’s fastest-growing major polluter, according to a report released in January by BP Plc.

    The results are profound. According to a World Health Organization report, India is home to 13 of the top 20 most polluted cities in the world. As measured on a country basis, India is the third-largest emitter of carbon dioxide, behind only China and the U.S. The 28-nation European Union’s emissions are also higher.

    India emitted about 2 billion tons of carbon dioxide in 2014, according to the BP Statistical Review of World Energy.

    Development Aspirations

    Days before publishing the INDC, Modi expressed "uncompromising commitment on climate change" to U.S. President Barack Obama, maintaining that this should not affect the "development aspirations" of his country.

    Modi has already vowed that India will quadruple its renewable-energy capacity by 2022, to 175 gigawatts, including 100 gigawatts of solar power alone.
    EDIT: The GoI document Submitted
    Last edited by DarthSiddius; 02 Oct 15,, 18:15.

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  • commander
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    Commander, we're not referring to how you explain things. Your explanations are fine.

    The difficulty is, I will say something in reference to <Subject Alpha> but you will respond regarding <Subject Beta>

    Which is fine...except we were talking about <Subject Alpha>

    When you jump around like that, it makes it difficult to debate specific points with you.
    My understanding has been that of both are very much interlinked for what we have been discussing. Your country is the biggest contributor to CO2 pollution. Yet you also have strict rules to curb the said pollution. However the CO2 pollution doesn't seem to go down though. Which for me atleast is puzzling. But anyway, even I agree with the situation being worse and we need to take serious measures to get things straight. I am not denying that or saying that we have a right to pollute. Just that we need some time and if you need us to do things at a phenomenal rate then we are going to need some help.

    Leave a comment:


  • DarthSiddius
    replied
    Originally posted by antimony View Post
    This is why we need to focus on our own environment cleanup activities, not because of the US or DK or whatever.

    Not fast enough.
    Agreed, there's a lot of shit that needs to be done. My post was directed more towards commander's contention that India has the right and the need to pollute in order to develop. The truth is India no longer needs to pollute (as much in any-case). The developed world polluted a lot more for a lot longer because adequate cleaner technologies weren't there or weren't cost effective back then. They are now and hence India/China have the option to develop a lot more greener than previously possible.

    It is a sensitive issue as there needs to be a balance between going green and developing at a pace that helps lift people out of poverty. My examples merely reflected the GoI's position on this.

    Leave a comment:


  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by commander View Post
    TH, I am not very good at explaining things sometimes, but I try my best. I am trying to connect the two by saying you contradict your actions by your laws. That's all.
    Commander, we're not referring to how you explain things. Your explanations are fine.

    The difficulty is, I will say something in reference to <Subject Alpha> but you will respond regarding <Subject Beta>

    Which is fine...except we were talking about <Subject Alpha>

    When you jump around like that, it makes it difficult to debate specific points with you.

    Leave a comment:


  • bfng3569
    replied
    Originally posted by commander View Post
    Was off the interweb for sometime on account of my brothers marriage, feels good again to be out of the reality and into the hands of the virtual world

    Okay maybe I am not good at explaining this but let me give it one more try. You make the policy to fight climate changes (appreciate the efforts taken) and yet your market favours/encourages consuming more oil and adding more carbon to the atmosphere. Shouldn't you be enforcing the policy and not just have it passed in your congress ?
    they are enforcing the policy though.

    what gets me with your argument, is you have been talking policy, then using production as an argument.

    Policy is to curb green house gasses and other pollutions.

    Policy (in my opinion, which I may be stating incorrectly here) is, and lets take gasoline for example (good example, bad example, I don't know), to increase the fuel efficiency of vehicles and reduce the emissions PER vehicle.

    Policy cant dictate how many vehicles are being used though.

    Leave a comment:


  • commander
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    He's done the same thing with me...mention one thing and he'll jump to something else as if that's what you'd been talking about.
    TH, I am not very good at explaining things sometimes, but I try my best. I am trying to connect the two by saying you contradict your actions by your laws. That's all.

    Leave a comment:


  • commander
    replied
    Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post
    and your original post and comment that I quoted was talking about POLICY, then you change the argument to VOLUME.

    do you SEE the difference?
    Was off the interweb for sometime on account of my brothers marriage, feels good again to be out of the reality and into the hands of the virtual world

    Okay maybe I am not good at explaining this but let me give it one more try. You make the policy to fight climate changes (appreciate the efforts taken) and yet your market favours/encourages consuming more oil and adding more carbon to the atmosphere. Shouldn't you be enforcing the policy and not just have it passed in your congress ?

    Leave a comment:


  • bfng3569
    replied
    Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
    He's done the same thing with me...mention one thing and he'll jump to something else as if that's what you'd been talking about.
    I don't post much here, I do like to read thru a lot of stuff here as I am usually not as up to date on things as the people I see posting, but man, does this stuff get annoying.

    the hate seems to rule the logic with this fellow.

    Leave a comment:


  • antimony
    replied
    Originally posted by DarthSiddius View Post
    Dated but a good article: Climate change, sustainable development and India: Global and national concerns

    Another Interesting read: It is a GOI report India's National Action Plan on Climate Change

    Modi has been for renewable energy sources not just because they are environmentally stable but also because it's much more affordable/sustainable now.

    Read up on Charanka Solar Park

    From wikipedia: Link


    Notice the sharp increase in installed solar capacity year to year.

    Shit's being done yo!
    Your post deserves a like just for that show of street cred :), but shit's not being done fast enough.

    Air pollution in India cuts wheat yields by half: Study | Business Standard News

    Air pollution in India is impacting the productivity of wheat crops, reducing it by almost half, a research paper has said.

    Noting that India has already been negatively affected by recent climate trends, the paper said the significant decreases in yield could be attributed to two air pollutants -- black carbon and ground level ozone.

    The research paper "Recent Climate and Air Pollution Impacts on Indian Agriculture" that analysed yields of wheat and rice crops for 30 years, found that air pollution caused wheat yields in densely populated states to be 50 per cent lower than 2010.
    This is why we need to focus on our own environment cleanup activities, not because of the US or DK or whatever.

    Not fast enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oracle
    replied
    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
    Yeah if you were following the exchange more closely, you would have realized that Oracle started the whole thing by questioning me and my heritage and my background and accused me of being a fanboy and other things.
    All started with you throwing insults, and also when I declined your offer of getting 'Agnostic_Muslim' by the hook, as he's personally not responsible for the genocide in Bangladesh. And posts where I criticized right wing goons like RSS/VHP etc. Don't throw wild accusations without proof.

    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
    He was the one that claimed to be a true Indian and I wasn't Indian at all and tried to silence me on topics related to India and make it so that his posts was only worth listening to because he was a true Indian and I was not.
    I never claimed I was a true Indian. Prove it, if I have said so. And silence you? Have you not got 10K posts?

    What's the color of your passport? Come stay in India if you're an Indian, why reside in the hell-hole US of A.

    FYI: You'd get a far smarter and sensible reply, if your posts directed at me are nuanced. I criticize and hate the right-wing extremists (RSS/VHP etc), you don't. Fine. Don't get personal. I'm not anyone's bitch. I have great respect and admiration for US. Fact. Respect my POV and I'll do the same. You can't bully me into accepting your POV even if you have spent 10 years in here. And for every insult you throw, I can throw five, but that would do injustice to the 10 years you've spent in here, and the 1.5 years I've spent.
    Last edited by Oracle; 04 Nov 14,, 19:22.

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  • TopHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post
    and your original post and comment that I quoted was talking about POLICY, then you change the argument to VOLUME.

    do you SEE the difference?
    He's done the same thing with me...mention one thing and he'll jump to something else as if that's what you'd been talking about.

    Leave a comment:


  • bfng3569
    replied
    Originally posted by commander View Post
    the fact that you guys burn more oil == more CO2 == more pollution == greater greenhouse effect == global temperature increase == global warming.

    Now you come and say to us, "hey there, you are burning too much oil in your house and I can see the smoke reaching my house. So stop burning or pay this much of fine if you fail to do so." but your own backyard is creating equally or more pollution. You enact laws and leave it to sleep ? Just because you have laws doesn't mean much unless implemented properly. Show us you have reduced a lot of the pollution coming from your house first then come back to us. If you are so towards the global warming why don't you stop buying from China which is a bigger polluter in the whole street ?
    and your original post and comment that I quoted was talking about POLICY, then you change the argument to VOLUME.

    do you SEE the difference?
    Last edited by bfng3569; 04 Nov 14,, 14:19.

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  • DarthSiddius
    replied
    Originally posted by antimony View Post
    Regarding your complaints of the US, here is what it sounds like. On a scale of 1-10 on trying to be more eco-friendly, the US is around 6-7. You are berating them for not being at 10. the problem is that we in India are perhaps at around 2. Everyone is trying, but we are not trying hard enough, even adjusted for our economy. The measures you speak of are few and far in between, whereas in the US I see those measures at many places. They have not reformed, but will get there sooner than we will.
    Dated but a good article: Climate change, sustainable development and India: Global and national concerns

    Another Interesting read: It is a GOI report India's National Action Plan on Climate Change

    Modi has been for renewable energy sources not just because they are environmentally stable but also because it's much more affordable/sustainable now.

    Read up on Charanka Solar Park

    From wikipedia: Link
    25.1 MW was added in 2010 and 468.3 MW in 2011. By January 2014 the installed grid connected solar power had increased to 2,208.36 MW, and India expects to install an additional 10,000 MW by 2017, and a total of 20,000 MW by 2022.
    Notice the sharp increase in installed solar capacity year to year.

    Shit's being done yo!

    Leave a comment:


  • commander
    replied
    Originally posted by antimony View Post
    Govt. inefficiency is our problem, not the US. you are including the cost of solar panels, but are you adjusting for duties that double those costs? Are you considering switchover costs and costs of health due to pollution?
    Government inefficiency is being taken care of. We need time and we are not asking for centuries to fix that. Duties can be reduced if required but can the government do everything without the nod of the parliament ? Just curious, I know at times government can pass ordinances without passing it in the parliament. We are making progress towards that and we are going to need time no matter how small it is and money.

    If you really want to attack the US, attack their right wing polity, a section of which refuses to believe in global warming in the first place. Attack their ridiculous stance on women's issues, especially shaming women for birth control and abortions. Attack the fact that they try to disenfranchise poor, minority voters by misusing voter id laws and gerrymandering. But please do so from a humanitarian point of view, not as a tit for tat response.
    Yeah I have seen their senators talk about how if the Wind energy is used up then we would not have anymore wind left. I am not aware of many of the issues that you have pointed out here. Will try reading some of them later thanks :)

    Some of our own economists are confused by that vote.
    I have posted an interesting table quite a while before that shows how the cost of the grains were being adjusted to 1980's rates AND the amount of subsidy doled out by the US government to it's limited farmers most of which own acre's of land or fall into the corporate farming category. But that was easily missed and nobody talked about it.

    That god (who may or may not exist) for capitalism. Or say good bye to the modern world.
    Too much of anything is poisonous. See how the health care in the US is fucked up. They allowed their countrymen to mess up with their own lives. The US pharma companies abuse the patent system to patent some old generation drugs by changing their formulas everytime the patent for that drug is about to expire. They do have good health care nothing to debate there. But you got to be able to access it right. That costs shit load of money in the US and many come to India for medical tourism. This one didn't make a fuss in the recent news, but is an important one. India has increased an essential cancer drug from 8000Rs to 1.08Lakh rupees, WTF ? Not only that there are many more. All because of the greedy US pharma companies that want to open shop in India. I am not saying they shouldn't make money because after all they spen billions of dollars in R&D and salary. But even after a patent runs out , just to keep making money they apply for patent again by adding / changing the chemical mixture. Seriously ? even after you made enough money if you still want to scrape the last dollar from your countrymen is absolutely pathetic and a government that is allowing that just amuses me. Whatever works for the US will not necessarily work for India. We have a far greater population than them. We have to adapt good practices let it be from capitalism or any other political path. After all serving people is what ideologies are supposed to be. Not the opposite of it.

    You sound like the CPI(M). you really need to ditch that rhetoric.
    Trust me even I am not 100% sure. I like individual things from all political views. I like capitalism but at the same time I support a bit of communism too. Not the one's that will bog down development or that doesn't move on. But you get my point I hope. I also like socialism. So not trying to be a rhetoric but I have seen how foreign policy of the countries that agree to whatever US says looks like. It's like they don't have their sovereignty. I would rather not see my country limited by anyone or any factor because we had to compromise on some of the principles.

    Cancer drug price goes up from Rs 8,000 to Rs 1.08 lakh

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  • antimony
    replied
    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
    Not much chance of that happening in DK's case was there? They have the right to be assholes to the right people. Indian Consular officials now know they fall in that category.
    In which case their own officials will get the similar legal treatment back in India. Also, nothing stops DK from filing her own civil suit.

    Leave a comment:

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