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  • Originally posted by commander View Post
    AR, thanks for clarying that. I always thought the seat of DA was filled in by some sort of system where an attorney is elected and not appointed. Even the consulate workers in the Russian embassy not just diplomats (or anyone in that level) had exploited your country's system right ? How did the State department were able to keep PB off the backs of the Russians ?
    No, It was a investigation that spanned 10 years. All those charged were diplomats. Most had already left the country.

    Russian diplomats accused of $1.5M Medicaid fraud

    US charges 49 Russian diplomats with Medicaid fraud worth $1.5mn ? RT News

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    • Originally posted by commander View Post
      Against which the US and other countries led by it were advertising. i.e. to be more responsible with the climatic changes and environment. Yet they will contradict themselves with their own actions. I am blaming them it's their wish. But just wondering on why the US contradicts many of it's own stands and principles by it's actions.

      But, things are changing in India under Modi. Not a life altering one, slowly but steadily AND friendly to Indians and not at the cost of their health or social life and be democratic.
      Look at your own link. What is more responsible, a 5 year 11% drop (US)in emissions or a 43% increase(India)?

      Seems the US is not contradicting ourselves. We are reducing emissions

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post
        I'm confused, but are you trying to say that the U.S. (Obama and his state department etc) preach to the rest of the world to be more 'responsible' when it comes to the climatic impact or their respective countries, yet at home (in the U.S.) he is advocating policies to loosen the 'responsible' climatic impact of the U.S. and to be less responsible as opposed to being more restrictive?
        You are asking someone to be more responsible with climate change and global warming, all good. But in your own home you burn fuel like there is no tomorrow , be the second largest polluter in the world. Isn't that hypocrisy?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
          Look at your own link. What is more responsible, a 5 year 11% drop (US)in emissions or a 43% increase(India)?

          Seems the US is not contradicting ourselves. We are reducing emissions
          GG, which is after you have contributed enough for decades towards global warming and still be the 2nd largest polluter with almost half of our population. Your folks are burning oil like there is no tomorrow. Now you are asking us to be more restrictive when we are trying to grow ? No doubt global warming is a reality and we have to deal with it. But in the name of that you are trying to put too much restrictions. Yet, everything is made in China at the cost of environment and that's where your capital is flowing to.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by commander View Post
            You are asking someone to be more responsible with climate change and global warming, all good. But in your own home you burn fuel like there is no tomorrow , be the second largest polluter in the world. Isn't that hypocrisy?
            A little bit of education is in order here, given that I live in the US and I am familiar with what is going on here. There is a lot of focus in the US on reducing emissions and pollution of all kinds. The EPA is the bane of US companies. There is a lot of effort in trying to reduce pollution and be more efficient. The result - a cleaner, greener local environment.

            Now I completely understand the argument that India needs to push for industrial growth but what stops us from being smart about it and leverage technologies that did not exist when the Industrialized nations built their own industries? What stops us, for example, in placing a heavy emphasis on hybrid, CNG or plug in vehicles? In the US, public buses, garbage pickup trucks and many other heavy vehicles run on cleaner burning gas. How many do so in India and what's stopping us from having more of those? How many hybrids do you see plying around? Why do we not have solar panels covering each and every highrise and govt. building? Why do we not have laws and incentives where solar producers are allowed credit on their electricity bills? When vehicular pollution in Delhi or Chennai increases, who do you think it hurt more, the US citizens or the local residents?

            India's first duty is to her own citizens. Being bullheaded and refusal to deal with pollution at every level based on "they do it too" is shirking of that responsibility.
            "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

            Comment


            • Originally posted by commander View Post
              You are asking someone to be more responsible with climate change and global warming, all good. But in your own home you burn fuel like there is no tomorrow , be the second largest polluter in the world. Isn't that hypocrisy?
              you didn't answer the question asked though, did you.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by antimony View Post
                A little bit of education is in order here, given that I live in the US and I am familiar with what is going on here. There is a lot of focus in the US on reducing emissions and pollution of all kinds. The EPA is the bane of US companies. There is a lot of effort in trying to reduce pollution and be more efficient. The result - a cleaner, greener local environment.
                I do appreciate any effort taken by them to reduce their carbon footprint. Yet with all those initiatives they are still ahead of India in contributing towards the air pollution with only half of our population. We can also start to look into it but not until we can afford to go full green.

                Now I completely understand the argument that India needs to push for industrial growth but what stops us from being smart about it and leverage technologies that did not exist when the Industrialized nations built their own industries? What stops us, for example, in placing a heavy emphasis on hybrid, CNG or plug in vehicles? In the US, public buses, garbage pickup trucks and many other heavy vehicles run on cleaner burning gas. How many do so in India and what's stopping us from having more of those? How many hybrids do you see plying around? Why do we not have solar panels covering each and every highrise and govt. building? Why do we not have laws and incentives where solar producers are allowed credit on their electricity bills? When vehicular pollution in Delhi or Chennai increases, who do you think it hurt more, the US citizens or the local residents?
                1. Money.
                2. Technology.
                3. Population.

                We have barely enough money to play around with in the first place. Once we stabilize the economy we can think about the rest. Modi is very active in the re-usable energy sector and I am sure we will see some mega projects like in Gujarat either Solar, Wind or Hydro or all three balanced. For which we would need time and again money. We are also trying to go nuclear energy way but that's a long way. In most of the villages people still use the old style stoves powered by wood and coal. The automobile industry in India had always been geared towards fuel economy rather unlike the US. Still in Delhi CNG has been successful. We can possibly replicate that in other metro's and cities but it will take time and again money. Unless you show some incentive to use CNG why would people go for it or why would manufacturers would try innovative technology that can offer similar benefits that a petroleum/diesel based vehicle can provide. Even in the US the hybrid cars are not much of a success story. It is still in that niche category. Solar panels also cost money and LOTS of it for residential use. Right now in my house we have a 1KW solar system installed and cost us almost 1.6Laks for the whole setup. Apart from the government subsidy. So that matters too. Government can try to install solar panels but will mostly be limited to government offices and buildings which I am pretty sure will happen soon. But you can't expect every household in India to shell out 2 Lakhs. How well is it going in the US with less than half of our population and with more cash in hands ? If you want to mass produce solar panels which can reduce the price of it then why hasn't the US or any country did that already and had it's citizens moved to it ? It is not that easy. So asking to clean up is easy but it's tough to implement in India with a Billion people.

                India's first duty is to her own citizens. Being bullheaded and refusal to deal with pollution at every level based on "they do it too" is shirking of that responsibility.
                I didn't say it meaning that way, but rather US thinks everyone should follow it's rule while it has a separate rule for it's own and THAT will not work out well.
                Last edited by commander; 31 Oct 14,, 20:39.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post
                  you didn't answer the question asked though, did you.
                  He is not advocating policies to let loose in the US but rather is not too sincere in implementing some of the rules in his country.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by commander View Post
                    He is not advocating policies to let loose in the US but rather is not too sincere in implementing some of the rules in his country.
                    can you point me to something to support this claim?

                    I see him pushing for new regulations on fuel economy, reductions in plant emissions, reduction in coal etc etc etc.

                    were is he not sincere in his country in implementing these things?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by commander View Post
                      I do appreciate any effort taken by them to reduce their carbon footprint. Yet with all those initiatives they are still ahead of India in contributing towards the air pollution with only half of our population. We can also start to look into it but not until we can afford to go full green.
                      If you won't, why should we?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by commander View Post
                        GG, which is after you have contributed enough for decades towards global warming and still be the 2nd largest polluter with almost half of our population. Your folks are burning oil like there is no tomorrow. Now you are asking us to be more restrictive when we are trying to grow ? No doubt global warming is a reality and we have to deal with it. But in the name of that you are trying to put too much restrictions. Yet, everything is made in China at the cost of environment and that's where your capital is flowing to.
                        Our CO2 emissions are the lowest in 20 years and yes we burn more fossil fuel than you do with 1/4 your population.

                        Part of the reason is the size of our country 3.6 million square miles verses India at 1.2 million square miles.
                        List of countries and dependencies by area - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        Another reason is that we are the third largest exporter, behind China and the EU. India is #17
                        List of countries by exports - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        One more point about pollution, Your ranking only showed CO2 emissions. In a ranking of the most polluted countries by particulate matter, the US is far down on the list.

                        India is 13th with 109 Micrograms of particulate matter per cubic meter of air.(ug/m3) 38 Ug/m3 above the world average.
                        The US is 84th at 18 UG/m3. which is 53 UG/M3 BELOW the world average.

                        Countries Ranked by Air Pollution | Statistic Brain

                        The WHO ranks you as 9th of the worlds worlds air polluted countries.
                        Countries with the worst air pollution ranked by World Health Organisation

                        1. Money.
                        2. Technology.
                        3. Population.
                        The technology is there. The US spent the research money on stack scrubbers and other pollution control devices. Same with wind and solar.
                        You don't need to invest in research, just use tech already proven.

                        Not saying that you need to have every citizen install solar panels. But your industry can install pollution control devices and use better practices. I'll refer to Antimony's post.
                        Last edited by Gun Grape; 31 Oct 14,, 21:32.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          If you won't, why should we?
                          Not that we won't, but we can't afford it - yet. Also isn't it the US that's fore fronting this? the US wants us to reduce our carbon emission. I am still saying we will implement if we can. Nobody wants to live in planet full of poisonous gases or kill the ecosystem/planet we live in for one's own interests.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                            Our CO2 emissions are the lowest in 20 years and yes we burn more fossil fuel than you do with 1/4 your population.
                            But that doesn't neutralize the carbon and other particles that's thrown in the air for decades. Also you have outsourced most of your industries to China and wouldn't that have played a vital role ? You are basically paying the Chinese to do you dirty work. If one part of the planet is affected that will also affect the rest of the world and the air just wont stay within the Chinese territory right ?

                            Part of the reason is the size of our country 3.6 million square miles verses India at 1.2 million square miles.
                            List of countries and dependencies by area - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                            Another reason is that we are the third largest exporter, behind China and the EU. India is #17
                            List of countries by exports - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                            Fair enough.

                            One more point about pollution, Your ranking only showed CO2 emissions. In a ranking of the most polluted countries by particulate matter, the US is far down on the list.

                            India is 13th with 109 Micrograms of particulate matter per cubic meter of air.(ug/m3) 38 Ug/m3 above the world average.
                            The US is 84th at 18 UG/m3. which is 53 UG/M3 BELOW the world average.

                            Countries Ranked by Air Pollution | Statistic Brain

                            The WHO ranks you as 9th of the worlds worlds air polluted countries.
                            Countries with the worst air pollution ranked by World Health Organisation
                            I can only think that mainly because the heavy industries are in China now. All your products right from a tooth pick to some heavy machinery are made outside China. Isn't that playing a big role here ?

                            The technology is there. The US spent the research money on stack scrubbers and other pollution control devices. Same with wind and solar.
                            You don't need to invest in research, just use tech already proven.

                            Not saying that you need to have every citizen install solar panels. But your industry can install pollution control devices and use better practices. I'll refer to Antimony's post.
                            We are not sitting idle ourselves too. We have been exploring options within our realm of possibilities. Just where are we to find money then to buy all those solar panels. We are not saying you should fund us, we can take care of our own but will take sometime. You have taken a long time to get to where you are with your cleaner cities, give us some time too. We will do it on our own.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post
                              can you point me to something to support this claim?

                              I see him pushing for new regulations on fuel economy, reductions in plant emissions, reduction in coal etc etc etc.

                              were is he not sincere in his country in implementing these things?
                              IIRC it only started very recently? If the government had been so sincere, with an economy that can cross out India's many times over why is the country still the biggest polluter of carbon than India then ? Gun Grape had argued about all other emissions but CO2 is the biggest contributor to greenhouse effect aka global warming.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by commander View Post
                                I do appreciate any effort taken by them to reduce their carbon footprint. Yet with all those initiatives they are still ahead of India in contributing towards the air pollution with only half of our population. We can also start to look into it but not until we can afford to go full green.
                                Of course they are. They are an Industrialized nation, for crying out loud, with factories that are still on older technologies. They will take time to change over. Also, the US govt. does not control their own economy unlike the GOI. If the US Govt. starts forcing rules down everybody else's throat, they are going to up and leave, exactly what has been happening. GOI has much greater control on the economy, like the PSUs, for example

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                1. Money.
                                We are spending 3500 crore on a stupid ass statue. There are other ways to honor Sardar Patel, by starting some clean initiatives on his name

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                2. Technology.
                                We are going to the moon and Mars. We need to be able to figure this out

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                3. Population.
                                All the more reason to smarten up.

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                We have barely enough money to play around with in the first place. Once we stabilize the economy we can think about the rest. Modi is very active in the re-usable energy sector and I am sure we will see some mega projects like in Gujarat either Solar, Wind or Hydro or all three balanced. For which we would need time and again money. We are also trying to go nuclear energy way but that's a long way. In most of the villages people still use the old style stoves powered by wood and coal.
                                Yes, I am aware of the ground realities, and yet, we place coal as the most likely source for generating power.

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                The automobile industry in India had always been geared towards fuel economy rather unlike the US.
                                So where are the Teslas and the Priuses?

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                Still in Delhi CNG has been successful. We can possibly replicate that in other metro's and cities but it will take time and again money. Unless you show some incentive to use CNG why would people go for it or why would manufacturers would try innovative technology that can offer similar benefits that a petroleum/diesel based vehicle can provide. Even in the US the hybrid cars are not much of a success story. It is still in that niche category.
                                Ever heard of the Prius? Want to know how many I see on my daily drive?

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                Solar panels also cost money and LOTS of it for residential use. Right now in my house we have a 1KW solar system installed and cost us almost 1.6Laks for the whole setup. Apart from the government subsidy. So that matters too. Government can try to install solar panels but will mostly be limited to government offices and buildings which I am pretty sure will happen soon.
                                Your hope is quite endearing. Tell me, when solar prices have been going down worldwide, why are they sky high in India? have you looked at the import duty + anti dumping duty + myriad other duties on solar panel imports? And what the local manufacturing doing? Why does the govt. not subsidize solar panel manufacturing to the extent that the US and Chinese govt.s do?

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                But you can't expect every household in India to shell out 2 Lakhs. How well is it going in the US with less than half of our population and with more cash in hands ? If you want to mass produce solar panels which can reduce the price of it then why hasn't the US or any country did that already and had it's citizens moved to it ? It is not that easy. So asking to clean up is easy but it's tough to implement in India with a Billion people.
                                I expect household in India to catch the throats of Indian politicians when their own throats start burning from the noxious fumes. your knowledge of the ground realities within the US are limited. Various US states (as well as the Federal govt.) offer decent subsidies for manufacture and consumption of solar equipment. However, all areas (like my own area in the Pacific North West) cannot take the advantage of solar the same way. But the laws and mechanisms are there.

                                Originally posted by commander View Post
                                I didn't say it meaning that way, but rather US thinks everyone should follow it's rule while it has a separate rule for it's own and THAT will not work out well.
                                Please take the US out of your mind for one tiny second. Screw what US says or does, India needs to clean up for her own sake, and not just by doing a Swacch Bharat (Clean India).
                                "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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