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Shipped-in aliens swamping Arizona

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  • Minskaya
    replied


    It's getting ugly. Residents of Murrieta, California blocked three busloads of illegal immigrants from entering their town. The buses were rerouted to a Border Patrol facility in San Diego.

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  • Minskaya
    replied
    Mass graves that may hold remains of immigrants uncovered in Texas cemetery

    A sad situation

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  • Minskaya
    replied
    Obama administration announces new steps to stem flow of immigrants at Texas border
    June 20, 2014

    The Obama administration toughened its border policies Friday, hoping to stem a surge of women and children into the United States by sending a stronger message that unauthorized migrants will be turned away.

    The steps, aimed at those entering from Mexico, include adding more immigration judges to process a backlog of asylum claims and to more quickly deport adults whose cases are rejected. New detention facilities are also being opened for families awaiting hearings, and ankle monitoring bracelets will be used to keep tabs on them, officials said. The moves mark a recognition by the administration that the unexpected influx of tens of thousands of immigrant children has become a serious humanitarian and political crisis. Since October, 52,000 unaccompanied minors and 39,000 adults with children have been apprehended along the Mexican border — a much higher proportion than normal.

    Administration officials had previously said that the main cause of the influx was an escalation of gang violence and poverty in Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. But the new measures Friday represented an acknowledgment that there is a widespread perception in Central America that women and children who enter the United States illegally would be permitted to stay.

    In addition to tougher enforcement efforts, the administration announced Friday that it would invest $9.6 million to help Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras repatriate those sent home from the United States, along with new aid to help improve security in those countries. Although the administration took steps to expedite the removal of adults who cross the border illegally, officials said they are unable to follow similar procedures for the larger pool of children who are showing up at the border without their parents. Federal law requires the children to be handed over to the Department of Health and Human Services within 72 hours and released to family members or other guardians with orders to appear at an immigration hearing later.
    Source

    Other announced steps: The U.S. Agency for International Development will launch a $40 million program to help improve citizen security in Guatemala. USAID will also start a $25 million crime and violence prevention program in El Salvador. More than $18 million will be used to support community policing and law enforcement efforts to combat gangs in Honduras under the Central American Regional Security Initiative, or CARSI. The U.S. government will also provide $161.5 million for CARSI programs focused on security and government challenges in the region.

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  • DonBelt
    replied
    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Okay Don, got it. Missed your point.

    Frankly, with the results of this past Tuesday here in Virginia there is little hope that things will get better anytime soon regarding sensible immigration reform.

    So much of this is muddled together with the politics of the day.
    Last year we had our fishing derby at Mirror lake, about 600 ft thru the trees from FMC Devens- It was about a month after the attacks and I had my scouts play "Sweet Caroline" at full volume on a boom box on the remote chance that " cabin boy" (or flash bang as Howie Carr calls him) had his window open. Does that count as politics?

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  • DonBelt
    replied
    I'd have to dig into the numbers a bit, but this most recent event seems much more like a refugee type event. But there is also a large component that is just people maybe 18 thru 30 say that come in for cheap labor and have families at home. They may live in large numbers in a small apartment, use social and welfare programs to supplement their income and living needs, go in the morning to a day labor office where they get loaded in a van and driven to the corporation of your choice who pays the day labor place as a subcontractor. Day labor business picks them up at the end of the day and drops them back at the office, pays them their pittance and they head to the nearest "checks cashed" and western union office to cable money back home to the families. This isn't limited to farms and big corporate manufacturers either- there are many going to "contractors" people doing roofing and home repair, landscapers (the jobs teens used to do for extra cash) and even big construction. I remember working at a power plant that was being built in my area- I was in a union shop office doing my thing and a few ICE guys came in. They had a list, they talked to the guy in charge there for a bit and eventually left. Afterwards it was noted that a number of French-Canadian guys who were working there were gone. So it occurs everywhere in all groups, not just Latinos. Then of course there are numbers of people who come in just for crime- fraud, drug smuggling, whatever presents itself.

    I don't hold it against those people who want to provide for their families in hard times, but lets be honest about it. 1. not everyone who comes in falls into the group of just wanting to work honestly to provide for their families.
    2. There are countries who complain that we aren't fair about immigration, yet they are the direct beneficiaries of many millions of dollars sent into their countries from those immigrants.
    3. These countries don't need to have social programs or protections for the poor because they can dump them somewhere else.
    4. Corporations and agro-business and small businesses take advantage of them.
    5. Politics- voter fraud, inflating the population numbers to get extra congressional seats drawn up (even if they can't vote, they count towards population numbers in the census) increased federal money (tax money, your money if you are an American taxpayer) to the states and local govt, ngo's and block grants. The Census bureau printed up posters explaining this for distribution to neighborhood community centers to get them to encourage illegal immigrants to cooperate with the census. Again, I've seen the posters when I've worked at those locations. (my job is kind of funny, it is a mundane non rocket scientist kind of job but it takes me into every kind of office or workplace imaginable- Autopsy rooms, pathology labs, govt offices, VA offices at JFK ctr in Boston, Coast Guard ships, ICE courts, homes, businesses, factories, Big Dig sites, Dr offices, schools, etc,etc - it doesn't make me an expert on those things, but I see a lot)

    The bottom line is that it has become a profitable business and political issue for too many for it to end.

    The best thing would be if the US just set a blanket number of people who can enter with strict guidelines: No untreated infectious diseases, be able to identify yourself so we can see if you are fleeing justice from your homeland or ours or have been previously deported, not be a member of groups that are trying to kill people, organized crime or gangs, overthrown the govt, implement world communism or religion or vegetarianism etc (just joking about that one- maybe) State your reason for coming- just to work? to be a citizen? Be honest so we can deal with it and be fair. Don't come in and go straight to welfare. No quotas or priorities for certain countries, regions or peoples. Have reasonable exceptions for emergencies like war or natural disasters with a pre-plan to put in place.

    Countries that dump large numbers of people and don't have similar social protections should be sanctioned in some way. They need to develop and implement those programs- it's not right that they don't. We have had and continue to have a vigorous debate about welfare programs in this country, we beat each other up over it continually and play politics over it and pay for it with our taxes. It is not fair that we should go thru all that and another sovereign nation is not willing to and just dumps or encourages the bottom 10% or what ever figure you want to go with to come here and use our system dishonestly. Welfare is help, not opportunity. There is a difference even if it might be subtle. Those countries cannot advance past their current stages of development if they can't develop a system that allows access to opportunities, education, social welfare or help to get people thru difficult times, honest police, courts and prisons to protect honest citizens and business, reasonable infrastructure. They won't develop those things if they can just export the problems and the people who are stuck in the middle of those problems.

    And as for President Hernández of Honduras and President Peña Nieto who want to blame drug use in the US for their countries woes, most reasonable people while not holding users completely blameless, place the overwhelming amount of blame on the provider of addictive substances to those who are addicted - who by definition cannot help themselves. Ask them to speak to the Chinese about the Opium Wars and who they blame - the users or providers.

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  • kato
    replied
    I find it interesting how much US immigration differs from EU immigration, considering the numbers are in the end about the same either way.

    If I get it right, the current immigration wave in the USA is to a considerable extent families - or rather, people who move to the US wholesale, leaving without major roots left back? I.e. more of a traditional refugee situation, not so much the typical labour immigration of young men in their 20s faced otherwise.

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  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Okay Don, got it. Missed your point.

    Frankly, with the results of this past Tuesday here in Virginia there is little hope that things will get better anytime soon regarding sensible immigration reform.

    So much of this is muddled together with the politics of the day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Minskaya
    replied

    Guatemalans who crossed the border near McAllen, Texas.

    Almost all the women from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador say the situations in their countries is rapidly deteriorating. Salvadorans report that a 2 year truce between the country's two largest criminal gangs had disintegrated and the government is impotent. They are terrified that their children will either fall victim to gang violence or be forced to join a gang. It takes about 15 days walking from Central America to reach the Rio Grande river. They say the going smuggler raft-rate now is $1000 per person which is ten times what it was just year ago. Holding facilities in Texas and Arizona are overwhelmed. Medical workers fear disease/epidemic outbreaks because only a strip of yellow tape separates those who have been quarantined from others in many facilities. Federal officials have rented another 55,000 sq. ft. warehouse in McAllen, Texas. At the current rate, 90,000+ unaccompanied children and teenagers will cross into the US from Central America in 2014.

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  • DonBelt
    replied
    The point I was making was that when one part of the government wants to act quickly it seems like it is able to do so and it is a shame other parts aren't able to when it should be a priority for us to help veterans that need it. If FMC Devens has excess capacity to use for this, perhaps they should transfer some of their excess capabilities to the VA which seems to be short. It's more a rhetorical point than anything else I guess since the VA's troubles have been much longer brewing and can't be solved overnight.

    The other observation was just that it seems strange that this huge onslaught of unaccompanied children has suddenly occurred as though it was a spontaneous development. 47,000+ in the past 6 months and 3 out of 4 of them from Honduras. ( Number of Latino children caught trying to enter U.S. nearly doubles | Pew Research Center ) That's more than 35,000 who left their homes in Honduras and walked or otherwise made their way all the way across Guatemala and Mexico to the US. Short of a sudden war or natural disaster that has occurred in the past 6 months what else could cause it? Things are pretty tough there but it has been that way for some time. It's the second poorest country in Central America but has a 4.5% unemployment rate compared to 6.3% in the US. It has the highest murder rate in the world but has for some time without this kind of emigration of minors. It just seems like an intentional dumping. The 0 -14 yo age group is the largest growing part of the population and perhaps rather than have the inevitable negative impact on an already bad problem with violence as they age they are being "sent off". The president of Honduras recently blamed the US for this "problem" by saying it was our bad immigration laws and drug use that caused it. President Hernandez is even asking Mexico to set up consulates to assist them in their journey.

    I don't want to turn my back on children in need, but at some point these countries need to step up and accept some responsibility and if they need help, ask for it and acknowledge that they need help and stop blaming us for all the problems in the world. A please would not be unpleasant to hear. At least he has also asked for some aid to establish (unspecified) social programs and for help battling drug cartels. That should help some but maybe not immediately. As for US drug use- good luck with that! The current social trend is becoming more and more tolerant of drug use. Not a good trend for us, but that won't change with legislation- it's a cultural thing and the culture is heading south.

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  • Albany Rifles
    replied
    Donbelt

    For all the issues surrounding the VA don't conflate the medical checks of these folks with Veterans care.

    The reason they were sent to Hanscom is so they could be seen at the DOJ Health Facility at Devens. That is where Boat Ballast was taken after he was caught in Watertown. The DOJ and PHS provide medical support to the CBP operations not the VA.

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  • Minskaya
    replied
    From what I understand, some of the recent influx has to do with criminal gangs in Central America. If the parent(s) are in America, they will telephone the parents and demand money for the security of the children back home. Since the parent(s) can't leave the US and keep their jobs etc, they simply instruct their kids to join them in America immediately. An ugly situation.

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  • Squirrel
    replied
    Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
    Sorry. English isn't my native language. I should have used "unaccompanied" (i.e. they crossed the border alone)...


    CNN
    No worries.

    I think the bigger issue is that these children were sent off by their parents/families in the hopes of reaching America and a better life. These people aren't stupid. They know that it's hard for these kids to be sent back, that's exactly what they're hoping for. These people also know that their children will be better cared for in custody of the federal agents than in their own. Frankly, it's a really f*cked up situation. But, I have friends and family members that are BP agents. I have done ride-alongs with them. I have seen this first hand. This is a political football that gets kicked around instead of effed up realities being faced. It bothers me deeply when distortions from either side paint any different picture than the reality of the situation. Agents walk a tightrope every damn day they are out there, doing the best that they can, from top to bottom. Don't even get me started on that complete bullmess called "fast and furious"...that thing stinks to high heaven of political jockeying and unnecessarily damaged the image of BP agents.

    Sorry, tangent. But one this hits very close to home for me.

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  • DonBelt
    replied
    No 5 or 6 year just ups and wanders off across the desert to sneak across the border. There has to be more to it than that. These ages and numbers? Smells more like some kind of coordinated dump and those organizing it are using children. They had a couple of planes transfer some of them up here to Hanscom and Logan in Boston. Veterans have to wait months, even years to get medical care and people crossing the border illegally can get picked up and shipped all over the country in a day. Just seems odd.
    Last edited by DonBelt; 13 Jun 14,, 03:39.

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  • Minskaya
    replied
    Originally posted by Squirrel View Post
    Minskaya,
    Nowhere in the article does it say that the children are unattended.
    Sorry. English isn't my native language. I should have used "unaccompanied" (i.e. they crossed the border alone)...

    Last week, nearly 1,000 "unaccompanied alien children" had already arrived in Tucson and Phoenix from places like McAllen and El Paso, Texas, as part of a resettlement process of the minors, most of whom come from Central America, to their native countries. Homeland Security is prohibited from immediately deporting the children if they are not from Canada or Mexico, causing the backlog of immigrants in U.S. detention centers. Facilities in Texas were at or near capacity for the immigrants because of a "record increase in underage migrants," which led to the transfer of hundreds to Arizona, a spokesman said."The situation with the kids are they came by themselves, they have no relatives here, and the consulates can't keep up. They're in limbo. There's no one (back home) to deport them to," a DHS spokesman told CNN.

    More than 60,000 unaccompanied juveniles are expected to cross in 2014, said Chris Cabrera, vice president of the National Border Patrol Council in the Rio Grande Valley, a U.S. Border Patrol workers union. "We are seeing numbers that we've never seen before in this part of the country," Cabrera told CNN last month. "Yesterday, we had 60 minors in one station alone. You're talking kids from 17 years old on down to some that are 5 or 6 years old, traveling by themselves."
    CNN

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  • ace16807
    replied
    Originally posted by kato View Post
    Nah, the initial thing about the bus stations seems to be the catch-and-release policy. Immigrants, provided they can give an address of relatives or friends in the country and seem halfway reliable, are basically given a bus ticket there and told to report to the local immigration official within two weeks. Guess a couple people gave a random address in Tucson or Phoenix? There is also some sort of refugee/homeless camp at those bus stations, but that's apparently more like under 50 people. Not the 700 that got off the bus.
    I should have clarified- I was referring to the children being sent to Nogales in that they weren't being dumped on the streets of various Arizona metropolitan areas sans adult supervision.

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