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Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

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  • #46
    How easy should it be to refuse service based on colour/ethnicity/religion? If all the petrol stations refuse to sell you petrol because your black? If all the supermarkets refuse to serve you because you're Jewish? If all the banks refuse to give you a credit card because you're Mexican?
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

    Leibniz

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    • #47
      Doktor


      My point is religion has no place in the government or the marketplace.
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

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      • #48
        What if it's a corporation that refuses service because of ethnicity/religion/race? Should a corporation be forced to serve all clients, but a single owner/operator not?
        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

        Leibniz

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
          How easy should it be to refuse service based on colour/ethnicity/religion? If all the petrol stations refuse to sell you petrol because your black? If all the supermarkets refuse to serve you because you're Jewish? If all the banks refuse to give you a credit card because you're Mexican?
          Should churches be able to sue contractors who do not bid on contracts they offer. Its the same thing- refusal of service. What about doctors who turn away seniors because they don't want to deal with medicare? That happens all the time- not illegal.

          AR, government has no place in religion either. The set up in Colorado now seems to give the states civil rights commission control over and ability to determine "appropriate" religious doctrine. I'm waiting for the backlash in Colorado. Some Christian couple is going to be turned down when they want to rent out a Mosque for a Christian wedding, get turned down and sue for discrimination since discernment along religious lines is no longer allowed...

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          • #50
            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            Should churches be able to sue contractors who do not bid on contracts they offer. Its the same thing- refusal of service.
            Only if the contractor states a reason for not bidding.
            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

            Leibniz

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
              How easy should it be to refuse service based on colour/ethnicity/religion? If all the petrol stations refuse to sell you petrol because your black? If all the supermarkets refuse to serve you because you're Jewish? If all the banks refuse to give you a credit card because you're Mexican?
              Pari, how viable is that option? Why not a single minority has been extinguished then?
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                Only if the contractor states a reason for not bidding.
                So to you discrimination isn't the failure to provide a service but saying you are not going to provide it....

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                  What if it's a corporation that refuses service because of ethnicity/religion/race? Should a corporation be forced to serve all clients, but a single owner/operator not?
                  Pari that is a good point.

                  If it a private company it can do as it wishes within the law and suffer the consequences of the market.

                  But if it is a publicly traded company it must do what it shareholders want....and then further suffer the whims of the market.

                  My issue is not with businesses....it's with government stepping in and taking a part on behalf of some businesses.
                  “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                  Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    Doktor


                    My point is religion has no place in the government or the marketplace.
                    It doesn't. But same goes for the government. They can set the rules, enforce them and that's it.
                    The Government can't (or shouldn't be able to) force me to do something against my beliefs.

                    I am with Gunny on this one, if she can prove she hold the same religious standards for divorced people who needed cake for their third wedding or for newborns out of marriage, let her be. I doubt it tho.

                    Is she court material? I have a feeling you can spend the costs more wisely.
                    Last edited by Doktor; 24 Feb 14,, 03:14.
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                      Same applies.


                      Really??? Really?? How Frickin far do you have to reach on this one???
                      Not far at all. i just wanted to see if you had a line and apparently you do. it is just drawn at a different place than others.
                      Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                        So I gotta ask WTF does ANY religious point of view belong in making public sector secular laws?

                        So if Arizona "law" makers want to stop same sex marriage on grounds based other than the Constitution (which, ya know, does not include marriage definition in it) then they are using religion. Wrong answer and unconstitutional.
                        1) Religious views are all over our laws and have been since the beginning. It goes with the territory when you have religious people in office making those laws.

                        2) The Constitution doesn't specifically address the concept of gay marriage or give the right to the Feds to do so but it does give that right to the states via the tenth Amendment. Right now the federal judges overturning the states bans would be unconstitutional.
                        Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                          So, to reiterate Benny's notion.

                          If an atheist refuses to serve a gay couple, then what?

                          If it was me, I'd sell the cake to polygamist Martians who merry their own children. However, if they don't want the gay people's money, fine, they wont have it. How hard is it to buy a cake in Arizona?
                          It is not that hard. The issue is whether or not a small deviant minority should be able to force people to change their long held and sacred beliefs and sell them a wedding cake.
                          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                            How easy should it be to refuse service based on colour/ethnicity/religion? If all the petrol stations refuse to sell you petrol because your black? If all the supermarkets refuse to serve you because you're Jewish? If all the banks refuse to give you a credit card because you're Mexican?
                            Its not easy. But these are races,colors, etc and such which have protections. Homosexuality is a behavior.
                            Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                              Pari that is a good point.

                              If it a private company it can do as it wishes within the law and suffer the consequences of the market.

                              But if it is a publicly traded company it must do what it shareholders want....and then further suffer the whims of the market.

                              My issue is not with businesses....it's with government stepping in and taking a part on behalf of some businesses.


                              So you think it is OK for the government to step in and force an owner to do something against his beliefs but it is not ok for the same government to step in and protect those beliefs?
                              Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                              • #60
                                Bars can refused service to assholes. Doctors, however, cannot refuse to treat assholes.

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