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  • #61
    Originally posted by zraver View Post
    I wonder what caste the servant was from. I bet if she had been a higher caste there would be a lot less blaming the victim going on.
    Debating the caste divide is really no different than debating the racial divide in the US.

    EDIT: I don't know about the caste of the maid, but a quick google shows that the caste of the arrested diplomat is actually "Dalit", i.e., low caste, "untouchable".

    So I guess your caste theory falls flat on it's face here, zrav...
    Last edited by Tronic; 15 Dec 13,, 06:33.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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    • #62
      Originally posted by cdude View Post
      I have no problem with paying illegals their market price. But this Indian housekeeper was LEGAL here and should not be paid peanuts, especially she should've got whatever promised
      Room and board would have been part of the package.

      Khobragade must also get a living allowance. I cannot see her surviving at her lifestyle at $4100 a month.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Tronic View Post
        Debating the caste divide is really no different than debating the racial divide in the US. Pointless.
        I agree with you here. Caste has nothing to do with the case here.
        (1) The diplomat promised the housekeeper a $45K salary which is probably the minimum allowed salary for H1B (imported labor) visas. Below that, the housekeeper cannot work in the US legally. So it's not that the diplomat lied to the housekeeper. It's that she broke the US labor law or immigration law or both.
        (2) Does she qualify for diplomatic immunity?

        Don't use the housekeeper made 10 times more than that she made in India. Doesn't matter. The minimum salary for H1B's is to protect US labors.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
          At this stage it certainly sounds like that, which is really what this is all about. The rest is just hot air.
          Yep

          Once the evidence was provided the authorities had to act.

          Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
          Given the cost of living in NY the domestic was being underpaid. You can't apply Indian wages to somebody living in the US. You would struggle to live on $500 a month in Melbourne. Given the position of the employer she was stupid to lie to the US authorities & then sign another agreement. If all of this is as reported I'm not feeling much sympathy for the employer. She tried to get by underpaying her staff, lied about it & then got caught. She put herself in a vulnerable position in order to save money. She seems like someone who should be smarter than that, especially while representing her nation overseas.

          While you didn't mention it, I'm still waiting for evidence that she qualifies for diplomatic immunity.
          You don't cart somebody over from India for a day job.She's a live in, so there are no external costs. Food board everything is covered by the employer, thats the way it works.

          The lying part i suspect is the norm. It's only when there is a dispute that it comes out. The surprise is over why or how this happened in the first place.

          I'm not able to make the case that she qualifies for diplomatic immunity. i thought that was settled earlier. if she was apprehended then chances are she isn't immune.
          Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Dec 13,, 03:06.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

            You don't cart somebody over from India for a day job.She's a live in, so there are no external costs. Food board everything is covered by the employer, thats the way it works.
            No, that's not how it works. To get the housekeeper a working visa (H1B), the diplomat had to promise a certain wage $45K for her. It should've gone through W-2. Nobody cares how much the food/board cares. It has to be on record(w-2).

            Otherwise why not pay the maid 0 dollars a month and everything else is food/housing?

            I cannot believe people are defending the diplomat here.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by cdude View Post
              I have no problem with paying illegals their market price. But this Indian housekeeper was LEGAL here and should not be paid peanuts, especially she should've got whatever promised
              She got what she was promised, not what was said in the visa application.

              Nobody underpays when you agree to a price. There was an agreement.

              Other events have transpired since that have created this issue.

              Originally posted by cdude View Post
              No, that's not how it works. To get the housekeeper a working visa (H1B), the diplomat had to promise a certain wage $45K for her. It should've gone through W-2. Nobody cares how much the food/board cares. It has to be on record(w-2).
              its not a H1-B. Its an A-3.

              Originally posted by cdude View Post
              Otherwise why not pay the maid 0 dollars a month and everything else is food/housing?

              I cannot believe people are defending the diplomat here.
              That could very well be the case too, she gets paid in India. Why else make an agreement in rupees.

              This is a domestic dispute that got out when it should not have.

              Nothing is going to change as a result of this. People are going to bring over domestics the same way they always have.
              Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Dec 13,, 03:24.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                She got what she was promised, not what was said in the visa application.
                Ok, that's the problem. The employer broke the law. Remember, the law is there to protect American workers. Doesn't matter how much the housekeeper agreed on.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  Yep

                  Once the evidence was provided the authorities had to act.
                  Assuming everything is as reported it seems pretty straightforward.

                  You don't cart somebody over from India for a day job.She's a live in, so there are no external costs. Food board everything is covered by the employer, thats the way it works.
                  Even so, $500 a month isn't great money.

                  The lying part i suspect is the norm. It's only when there is a dispute that it comes out. The surprise is over why or how this happened in the first place.
                  If you are going to tell fibs on official paperwork you need to keep everybody sweet....or don't tell fibs.

                  I'm not able to make the case that she qualifies for diplomatic immunity. i thought that was settled earlier. if she was apprehended then chances are she isn't immune.
                  It was a more general comment, I just tacked it on to that post rather than post twice. I wouldn't necessarily assume that because she was apprehended that she doesn't have immunity, however, it does seem that the scope of immunity does not cover all diplomatic staff.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                    Coming around to it, most upper and middle class people in India grow up with live-in housekeeper/nannies, and I don't think most people there can imagine a life without them.

                    This diplomat must have felt the same when she brought over the housekeeper to the US. Afterall, she did not immigrate to the US, but was posted there as part of her government job. A "government job" in India is synonymous with getting additional perks, not loosing the ones you already enjoy. She probably didn't think it to be a big deal to try and skirt inconvenient laws to maintain her standard of living.

                    As for the nanny herself, it is ridiculous to throw around terms like "slave" and "tricked" for her position. She was getting paid almost 10 times the wages she would've gotten paid as a live-in housekeeper in India. The rates for housekeepers in India are around ₹1000/month, about $20/month. I'm sure it's not much higher in the bigger metros; maybe ₹3000-₹4000/month, $60/month, max. So this maid making $500-$600 (₹30,000+) a month, with food and boarding covered, is a bonanza for the maid, not "slavery" or "trickery".
                    Right

                    Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                    Unless ofcourse the maid is planning on not making her way back to India... :whome:

                    Just putting things in perspective..
                    Dispute happens, she does not work, they threaten her, she flees. She speaks english, find people that can help her.

                    Her only way out is to say she was exploited, abused, tricked whatever. I don't know if she planned on staying back or not, but things might have developed to a point where this was the only option.

                    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    Assuming everything is as reported it seems pretty straightforward.


                    Even so, $500 a month isn't great money.


                    If you are going to tell fibs on official paperwork you need to keep everybody sweet....or don't tell fibs.


                    It was a more general comment, I just tacked it on to that post rather than post twice. I wouldn't necessarily assume that because she was apprehended that she doesn't have immunity, however, it does seem that the scope of immunity does not cover all diplomatic staff.
                    - this is my general understanding.
                    - what is paid is what is agreed to. It's great money for a maid from India. her work remains the same, she lives in the US and makes many times more for the same work. She would have been mostly confined to the house as the employer is responsible for her. She gets sick he pays the bills etc.
                    - yes or next time make sure they don't speak english too well.
                    - i don't think they would have arrested her if they did not have the jurisdiction. Otherwise she has an easy out, wrongful arrest. She's free to go.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Dec 13,, 03:43.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by cdude View Post
                      (1) The diplomat promised the housekeeper a $45K salary...
                      You don't know that, and I highly doubt that.

                      which is probably the minimum allowed salary for H1B (imported labor) visas. Below that, the housekeeper cannot work in the US legally. So it's not that the diplomat lied to the housekeeper. It's that she broke the US labor law or immigration law or both.
                      Agreed. I don't sympathize with her. She should've known better.

                      (2) Does she qualify for diplomatic immunity?
                      Don't know, and it's not really my concern. The blokes in Washington and New Delhi can bang their heads over that issue.

                      Don't use the housekeeper made 10 times more than that she made in India. Doesn't matter. The minimum salary for H1B's is to protect US labors.
                      That's all fine. I'm just contending against the ridiculous narrative painting the maid as a victim of 'slavery' and 'trickery', which is clearly not the case.
                      Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                      -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        Dispute happens, she does not work, they threaten her, she flees. She speaks english, find people that can help her.

                        Her only way out is to say she was exploited, abused, tricked whatever. I don't know if she planned on staying back or not, but things might have developed to a point where this was the only option.
                        True. If this wasn't pre-planned, then it seems like the housekeeper was in an unhealthy work environment. Treat the workers in your home with respect and you will most likely never get to this point.

                        I have seen cases with children shouting orders to their housekeepers or talking down to them. A friend's mother shouting at her driver out of the blue to "drive properly" and to "place both your hands on the wheel". (I honestly wished to tell the driver to just pull over, give the finger and walk away with his respect intact). That type of snobby attitude is nauseating and uncalled for.

                        Anytime I do Skype back home, I will have the housekeepers checking up on me, asking me how I've been, et all. I treat them with the same respect I would a family member, and always make it a point to add the respectful "ji" to the end of my sentences. I get told I'm missed there.

                        If you have a mutually respectful and a mutually caring relationship, there is no way anyone would humiliate another the way this housekeeper has done to her employer.
                        Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                        -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          I wonder what caste the servant was from. I bet if she had been a higher caste there would be a lot less blaming the victim going on.
                          Khobragades are low caste dalit marathi people from nashik.

                          You obviously lack the fine points on indian society or read too many leftist literatures on india

                          Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          Not war zones, just sweat shops...
                          Good luck to your nations state officials working in india
                          Last edited by anil; 15 Dec 13,, 07:21.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                            Anytime I do Skype back home, I will have the housekeepers checking up on me, asking me how I've been, et all. I treat them with the same respect I would a family member, and always make it a point to add the respectful "ji" to the end of my sentences. I get told I'm missed there.
                            Give me their phone numbers. I'm calling them to tell them that you don't know how to cook and is as thin as a toothpick.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              Give me their phone numbers. I'm calling them to tell them that you don't know how to cook and is as thin as a toothpick.

                              Colonel, not knowing how to cook = higher intake of high carb, greasy takeouts = expanding body mass. They won't believe you. Atleast not until I wrap up my final semester and can get back to hitting the gym. :Dancing-Banana:
                              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                                That's all fine. I'm just contending against the ridiculous narrative painting the maid as a victim of 'slavery' and 'trickery', which is clearly not the case.
                                The maid is a victim of human trafficking. There is trickery all right. The diplomat tricked the US immigration officer in her false visa application for the maid.

                                Nobody cares how business is conducted in India. Don't bring that into the US. Be it a diplomat or a company.

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