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  • Originally posted by winton View Post

    I understand rhetoric, I understand outcomes. You make it sound like the US system is difficult to master.
    Ordinarily I would agree, but your grasp on how things work in the US has been remarkably uncertain.
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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    • Originally posted by winton View Post
      The fact that PAP has been in power for so long lends its detractors the idea that its a one party state. Thats totally understandable. This couldn't be further than the truth though. There are opposition parties. Just not good ones.

      We don't have Guantanamo. We have free and fair elections. The best party get elected for the job. The job gets done. Everyone's happy (mostly everyone).
      This thread is already messy enough without turning this into a discussion on Singapore, so this will be my last post on the subject. My point was & is that Singapore is a poor place to gains an understanding of 'separation of powers', especially for someone who has drunk enough kool aid to believe the highlighted portion.

      I understand rhetoric, I understand outcomes. You make it sound like the US system is difficult to master.
      You make it look pretty hard to master.

      I've been paying close attention to the place for 35 years & actively studying it for over 25 (up to PhD level). I have close friends & family who live there or have lived there for most of their adult lives and I have spent close to a decade interacting almost daily with Americans online & debating the politics of their nation. I still don't claim to have 'mastered' all the details of the system. I guess I have the disadvantage of knowing enough to have an idea how much I don't know.

      Whenever I read one of your posts the phrase 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' keeps leaping to mind.
      sigpic

      Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        Pulled out as before any of this happened.

        Saying going to the authorities is not a warning sign to get out?
        Come on seriously. If a lawyer comes to the embassy and threatens action every time, pretty soon there would be nobody running the embassy and the embassy would be totally at the mercy of the lawyers. Be serious for a change. Khobrogade did consider the words by firing her and reported to GoI about the absconding personnel.
        Weapons were not loaded and no rounds were chambered. No magazine in place. I wasn't that stupid.[/QUOTE]

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        • Originally posted by Triple C View Post
          No, you absolutely don't understand the practice of politics and law in the west in general and the U.S. in particular. You are projecting how things work in China to how things work in New York City. Tell me, exactly, what "pull" does Kerry have on Preet Bharhara. Who is he going to call. What he can do.
          First of all, I'm not projecting anything.

          My guess is that Preet might be offered some political support for any future run, or posting somewhere higher up to drop the case. I mean use your imagination. This is politics.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
            Come on seriously. If a lawyer comes to the embassy and threatens action every time, pretty soon there would be nobody running the embassy and the embassy would be totally at the mercy of the lawyers. Be serious for a change. Khobrogade did consider the words by firing her and reported to GoI about the absconding personnel.
            Ok, this will be the third time this particular consulate has ran into labour trouble ... and you don't think the warning signs are enough to say it's time to go?

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            • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              Weapons were not loaded and no rounds were chambered. No magazine in place. I wasn't that stupid.
              Doesn't matter. The other person doesn't know that and has no choice but to presume to think it was loaded and you were ready to use it.

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              • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                Doesn't matter. The other person doesn't know that and has no choice but to presume to think it was loaded and you were ready to use it.
                These were military personnel who should, and I do emphasized should, recognize weapons protocols. No one aimed a weapon at anyone. The weapons were always on safe and the barrels aimed at no one. No magazine was inserted. We were just holding our weapons. We were just returning from an exercise while I dropped in to ask for our passports back.

                Again, I was fully prepared to face the consequences. Don't know what it was at the time but I was not expecting to get away scott free.

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                • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  These were military personnel who should, and I do emphasized should, recognize weapons protocols. No one aimed a weapon at anyone. The weapons were always on safe and the barrels aimed at no one. No magazine was inserted. We were just holding our weapons. We were just returning from an exercise while I dropped in to ask for our passports back.
                  And OJ Simpson just wanted to get his stuff back.

                  Again, I was fully prepared to face the consequences. Don't know what it was at the time but I was not expecting to get away scott free.
                  You didn't have immunity and you knew that your country was not gonna allow Saudis to arrest you and prosecute you. That is not the same thing as DK episode.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                    And OJ Simpson just wanted to get his stuff back.
                    And we got it back. I was kicked out. Nobody made a fuss after that.

                    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                    You didn't have immunity and you knew that your country was not gonna allow Saudis to arrest you and prosecute you.
                    No, I did not know that.

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                    • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                      And OJ Simpson just wanted to get his stuff back.
                      Saudis had no right to keep the pssports. If they did, they wouldn't return them. Even under threat of use of force, which from everything said was not a case.

                      You didn't have immunity and you knew that your country was not gonna allow Saudis to arrest you and prosecute you. That is not the same thing as DK episode.
                      Then why you brought it up?
                      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by winton View Post
                        First of all, I'm not projecting anything.

                        My guess is that Preet might be offered some political support for any future run, or posting somewhere higher up to drop the case. I mean use your imagination. This is politics.
                        Facepalm. Dropping a case for political promises is a felony. Such things are taken with utmost seriousness in the US. One can go to jail for it. Politically, it's a non-starter. Imagine what GOP can do if they can even imply such impropriety had taken place by the urging of somebody like Kerry. What Preet's opponent in an election can do with an accusation like this. It would ruin Preet. This doesn't reflect well on how things are done in your corner of the world.

                        The more I read this, the more I doubt you understand what is separation of powers, a genuine opposition party, and fair and open elections.

                        Imagination runs wild without knowledge.
                        Last edited by Triple C; 19 Dec 13,, 16:37.
                        All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                        -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

                        Comment


                        • This is possibly already posted somewhere along this thread but just wanted to post it again to let fellow wabbers that India in no way had exposed the US diplomats to a security risk , but all the retaliation is only stripping of the extra privileges that has been given to them all these days,

                          Now No Special Treatment to US Diplomats at Airports

                          US diplomats and their families in India will not be able to avail special treatment at airports from tonight when the deadline expires for surrendering their special passes, as part of government's retaliatory action against the treatment meted out to diplomat Devyani Khobragade in New York.

                          India on Tuesday had taken a slew of retaliatory steps to strip US diplomats and their families of privileges including withdrawing all airport passes and stopping import clearances for the US embassy, strongly denouncing the arrest and strip searching of Khobragade, India's Deputy Consul General in New York.

                          The government had asked the US Consular diplomats and their families to surrender airports passes by tonight.

                          The Government had also asked the US Embassy to provide a list of all Indian nationals working with its Consulates, including domestic servants, by December 23.

                          The government has also sought copies of their contracts, bank accounts, salaries and PAN numbers.

                          It has also stopped all import clearances including for liquor for the US embassy. The traffic barricades near the US embassy on Nyaya Marg here were also removed.

                          39-year-old Khobragade, a 1999-batch IFS officer posted as Deputy Consul General in New York, was taken into custody last week on visa fraud charges as she was dropping her daughter to school before being released on a USD 250,000 bond after pleading not guilty in court.

                          Khobragade was put through both strip and cavity searches, procedures normally used for criminals, evoking a sharp reaction from India.

                          She was yesterday transferred to India's Permanent Mission to UN to give her fuller diplomatic immunity.
                          All that absolutely doesn't seem to me as India violating any kind of convention policies what so ever , unless these are included in them ( then i am ready to stand corrected if someone proves it :) )

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                          • This is getting out of hands now , the chief justice of India has also commented and I just hope this doesn't end with both Judicial systems locking horns

                            Diplomat row: Protests held at Hyderabad, Kolkata | Deccan Chronicle

                            In Hyderabad, Left workers and other activists held a protest outside the US Consulate at Begumpet. The protesters, under the banner of All India Peace and Solidarity Organisation (AIPSO), raised slogans against the US administration. They held placards accusing US of being a racist country. Police removed the protesters from the place.

                            With India locked in a face-off with the US over the treatment meted out to Khobragade, Chief Justice of India P. Sathasivam also spoke disapprovingly of the action by American law enforcement agencies.

                            It was upto the government to decide on what steps should be taken, "but as an individual, it should not happen to our high officials," he told reporters in Chennai.
                            Last edited by commander; 19 Dec 13,, 16:38.

                            Comment


                            • commander,

                              Pari posted a link to Indian media posted before all this drama where it is said barricades are posted for security reasons.

                              Yeah, I am lazy to find it, too.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                                An Indian "official" in the US faces US justice system unless the "official" is someone with diplomatic immunity.

                                she did not have diplomatic immunity.

                                Stop playing with words.
                                Joker, you're actually accusing ME of playing with words? Haha

                                Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                                Good for you. Put the US officials that broke your laws through your justice system. Strip search them if you have to.
                                Yes that's exactly where this is heading

                                ------
                                The government had asked the US Consular diplomats and their families to surrender airports passes by tonight.

                                The Government had also asked the US Embassy to provide a list of all Indian nationals working with its Consulates, including domestic servants, by December 23.

                                The government has also sought copies of their contracts, bank accounts, salaries and PAN numbers.




                                Originally posted by YellowFever View Post
                                But that's OK because the US is good with James Bond style tactics.
                                Obviously,

                                like thieves at night...

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