Obama knew millions could not keep their health insurance

[Blademaster]

OoE,

It truly is a mess with this president. It especially gets my blood boiling when we have to hear Jay Carney spew crap out of his mouth such as "We're talking about 5% of the country," (in regards to people being dropped from their insurance plans due to Obamacare). Oh only 5%... that is about 14 million people Mr. Carney when Obama said, "If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what". Glad to see you aren't affected by this Obamacare.

I don't normally get too involved or emotionally attached to political issues, but this Obamacare has really hit my family and close ones around me and to see all the lies, word twisting, and issues being just brushed aside like it's nothing is just beyond laughable.

That is the fault of the employers and they will be punished for it soon enough and those people can get their own insurance now through the exchanges. Nothing is stopping them from getting another kind of insurance through the exchanges.

I have my own insurance. No employer is paying it for me but me paying out of my own pocket and I am not even that rich. So I am not sympathetic to the whining and belly aching and bitching going on.

[Officer of Engineers]

And you are making too much out of the bowing incidents. It was nothing but more than misunderstanding of protocols

Horse Puckey. That's what he got advisors for and bowing before the Japanese dropped points for him in China, Taiwan, and Korea. While the Saudis are elated about him bowing before their king, their neighbours do not like it one bit that put the Saudi king one peg above them. No one bowed to the Kuwaiti head hancho.

and at the time of 2009 nobody knew whether the economy was going to be around and as president, he had to do whatever to save the system. Now the system is back on firm ground, he doesn't have to bend his neck at all and he hasn't done so.

Does not changed the fact that he went begging to the Chinese.

As for Syria, you are way off the mark like your assessments was off the mark regarding the ground realities. Today, events have proven that it would be a disaster if US intervened on the side of the rebels. Now the chemical weapons are being taken care of, the Syrian mess is not US any longer but Russia's and i think Obama got the better end of the deal. Your strong dislike for Obama is distorting your analysis of Obama's policies and actions

You are off the mark. The world sees Putin taking the lead, not Obama and this mess with the drone attacks. Obama had proof all along that the Pakistanis were lying through their teeth. Instead, he let them embarrass the US through all out the world. He didn't even twist their arms to shut the hell up.

And as of right now, Harper is not asking anything of Obama. Ottawa has lost faith in Washington's leadership.

[astralis]

OoE,

Eric,

Like it or not, Obama is viewed is one of the weakest POTUS in history. Only time will tell if he is worst than Jimmy Carter but that is not saying much.

Obama went begging to the Chinese for financial help and he jumped at Putin's rescue at Syria's rescue.

And he bowed before the Japanese and the Saudis ... that does wonders to Asia and Central Asia.

No matter how the Democrats wants to twist things, the fact is that Obama failed before the Canadians ... that will tell you how he failed before the rest of the world.

well, i was discussing domestic politics in this case.

regarding foreign policy:

IMO, obama's correctly identified the long-term foreign policy issues that the US faces. strategically, the shift from the middle east focus on terrorism to east asia.

i disagree that he's "gone begging to the Chinese", because as we all know the Chinese have NO CHOICE but to keep on buying US dollars- they have no place else to put their money.

in the short-term, i agree that the foreign policy execution has been amateurish, with the syria situation being a prime example of this.

having said that, obama's amateur hour has not costed the US what bush's amateur hour did. for all of bush being seen as "tough", this image came at a cost of hundreds of billions and thousands of US lives; as well as a considerable amount of international antagonism.

on a strategic level, what obama has done poorly fades into insignificance (for instance, syria is still relatively unimportant to the US; russia remains a second-rate power), while what bush did poorly affects the US to this very day (tens of thousands of troops still in afghanistan, trillions spent on the GWOT).

note that i don't use bush as an example because i want to say "well bush did it worse". nor am i using this as an example to excuse obama.

what i want to point out is that perceptions of presidential strength matter a lot less now than it did during the Cold War, where perceptions of weakness could mean the difference between peace and global war.

instead, where perceptions of presidential strength matter these days is in domestic politics. one of the reasons why the GOP just tried their suicidal show-down with the democrats is precisely because they view Obama as a weak leader, willing to cave.

[Captain Worley]

It was nothing but more than misunderstanding....

Riiiiiiiiight.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

[Blademaster]

Horse Puckey. That's what he got advisors for and bowing before the Japanese dropped points for him in China, Taiwan, and Korea. While the Saudis are elated about him bowing before their king, their neighbours do not like it one bit that put the Saudi king one peg above them. No one bowed to the Kuwaiti head hancho.

Who gives a shit about bowing? Nobody in America remembers it now until you brought it up. And Saudi's neighbors have way less punch than Saudi so a bow to the king in exchange for stable oil prices to allow US to recover is a very very small price to pay.

Does not changed the fact that he went begging to the Chinese.

Do you see Obama begging before China now? Big whooping deal. Problem solved. Next.

You are off the mark. The world sees Putin taking the lead, not Obama and this mess with the drone attacks. Obama had proof all along that the Pakistanis were lying through their teeth. Instead, he let them embarrass the US through all out the world. He didn't even twist their arms to shut the hell up.

And you don't have the complete picture or more information than Obama does so I am gonna take your words with a huge grain of salt. We as Americans are happy to see Putin to take the lead because it means that Russia inherits that mess, not the US. We do not want to own a broken pottery. The Aghanistan and Iraq war taught us the folly of owning a broken pottery without any meaningful benefits.

And as of right now, Harper is not asking anything of Obama. Ottawa has lost faith in Washington's leadership.

I am not surprised because he has a big case of sour grapes after Obama rejected the Keystone pipeline project. That was Harper's baby and he got burnt so he's walking around like a big crybaby. That ain't leadership.

[Blademaster]

Riiiiiiiiight.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

And Reagan didn't know what was going on? Riiiiiiight.

[erik]

That is the fault of the employers and they will be punished for it soon enough and those people can get their own insurance now through the exchanges. Nothing is stopping them from getting another kind of insurance through the exchanges.

Carney himself is blaming the insurance companies for complying with The Affordable Care Act for the "only 5%" that have lost their coverage. My mother lost hers and had to choose one of the "affordable packages" which has a $25,000 deductible! That won't cover for anything unless she has some sort of extreme accident or life threatening event. Plus she has to pay the monthly Obamacare premiums in order to keep that coverage she must have or choose to accept the yearly fine for not choosing. My boss who paid for his own insurance partially while our employer paid for partial of his too had to drop his insurance coverage because the cost was going to nearly quadruple, something obviously he could not afford. All because that insurance company was complying with the Affordable Care Act so his premiums shot up.

I have my own insurance. No employer is paying it for me but me paying out of my own pocket and I am not even that rich. So I am not sympathetic to the whining and belly aching and bitching going on.

Good for you. Hopefully your premiums won't go up or you won't be receiving a letter in the mail that you are being dropped. Whining and belly aching? All for the right reasons! I am a recent college graduate who has yet to get hired for my career so I am working 2 jobs that pay just a bit more than minimum wage. My girlfriend works one job full time for about the same wage. We have a 3 year old son to take care of. Well her company cannot afford to provide Obamacare to all of its employees (has more than the minimum amount of employees under Obamacare in which the employers has to then provide insurance for the full time employees) so to get around that, the company is cutting her to only 30 hours a week as with many others. That is 40 hours per month that we are losing out on which is money we desperately need to pay off bills, food, etc. etc. And her company, our city, our state, this isn't the only place where this is happening.

So yes, I do believe many people have the right to belly ache, bitch, and whine for something that was forced upon them and completely out of their control. Especially when the people like Jay Carney and Obama do not address the issues or just brush it aside and claim that it's only 5% of the people.

[Blademaster]

Erik,

You are paying forward for future health problems that will eventually crop up and trust me those costs would be much higher than without insurance. As for the deductible of $25,000 I am sorry but she is getting ripped off and it depends on where she lives. If it is one of those states that chose to opt out of ACA, then it probably explains it but in my state, the deductible ranges from $1000 to $3000, certainly not $25,000.

As for the companies cutting it down to 30 hours to get around the problem, they will get their comeuppance one day and realize their folly of doing so.

[Captain Worley]

And Reagan didn't know what was going on? Riiiiiiight.

And Grover Cleveland didn't know what was going on? Riiiiiight.

OK, we've established we can both be silly.

Obama knew exactly what he was doing. He doesn't like America being 'high and mighty' so he decided to step the US down to the Saudi's level. I think it was a bad move. Why bring a superpower down to the level of a middle eastern country?

His idealism once again runs into the reality, and once again catches the losing end of it. He's done far more than Bush da Second ever did to lower the nation's status in the world.

[Captain Worley]

As for the companies cutting it down to 30 hours to get around the problem, they will get their comeuppance one day and realize their folly of doing so.

Yeah, I fully expect the government to bizzitch slap industry for responding to a problem the government created.

[erik]

Erik,

You are paying forward for future health problems that will eventually crop up and trust me those costs would be much higher than without insurance. As for the deductible of $25,000 I am sorry but she is getting ripped off and it depends on where she lives. If it is one of those states that chose to opt out of ACA, then it probably explains it but in my state, the deductible ranges from $1000 to $3000, certainly not $25,000.

Michigan is our State and they did not opt out of ACA. It was the cheapest one she could choose since she is a single woman. I believe she chose the Bronze plan, so it is a much lower premium, but the out-of-pocket costs are substantially higher.

As for the companies cutting it down to 30 hours to get around the problem, they will get their comeuppance one day and realize their folly of doing so.

How can you put the blame on the company when they simply cannot afford to insure their employees? Punishing them for not being able to afford a government enacted policy?

There is a business that is quite the successful sub shop in my area. The owner, who started from the bottom and built his sub shop to become one of the best in the areas was planning on opening a 2nd store. He however could not due to the Obamacare policy where he would have to provide his employees with health insurance if he had a certain amount of employees that worked full time (I can't remember the number, but is it 40 or something?) Anyways, so he has his first sub shop and cut down the hours of his full time employees because he could not afford to provide the Obamacare to his employees. Why should a company be punished for that when they cannot afford?

This isn't my girlfriend's employer, her employer is a much larger business, but just an example of why should these businesses be punished when it simply is not affordable? They don't have debt limits that can be raised.

[Officer of Engineers]

Who gives a shit about bowing?

The Chinese, Koreans, and the Taiwanese.

Nobody in America remembers it now until you brought it up.

The Republicans.

And Saudi's neighbors have way less punch than Saudi so a bow to the king in exchange for stable oil prices to allow US to recover is a very very small price to pay.

The Iraq War was launched from Kuwait, not the KSA.

Do you see Obama begging before China now?

Yes. There has been no talk of re-evaluating the reminbi since Obama came to power.

Big whooping deal. Problem solved. Next.

Hardly. Chinese still run rampant in their capital expenditures contrary to American desires. Re-evaluating their currency, tariffs, and IP violations are still in the Chinese favour.

And you don't have the complete picture or more information than Obama does so I am gonna take your words with a huge grain of salt. We as Americans are happy to see Putin to take the lead because it means that Russia inherits that mess, not the US. We do not want to own a broken pottery.

On the contrary, it saw Russia solving the mess without getting invloved. There is not one Russian trooper overseeing Assad and Assad is given the power to solve his own problem.

The Aghanistan and Iraq war taught us the folly of owning a broken pottery without any meaningful benefits.

That is so much bull in this re-evaluation that it makes me sick. Both Afghanistan and Iraq were wars that needed to be fought. Maybe the wars could have been fought better. It certainly could have been fought far worst. To say these wars were broken pottery without any meaningful benefits ignores the fact that 3000 of our citizens died and it taught Saddam how to hurt us.

I am not surprised because he has a big case of sour grapes after Obama rejected the Keystone pipeline project. That was Harper's baby and he got burnt so he's walking around like a big crybaby. That ain't leadership.

Yeah, how did the Brits do with the Syrian war cry?

[Officer of Engineers]

IMO, obama's correctly identified the long-term foreign policy issues that the US faces. strategically, the shift from the middle east focus on terrorism to east asia.

Bowing before the Japanese Emperor did not help in this matter.

i disagree that he's "gone begging to the Chinese", because as we all know the Chinese have NO CHOICE but to keep on buying US dollars- they have no place else to put their money.

And gave the world an impression that the Chinese now have a say in domestic American economic matters and silenced American criticism of Chinese ill economic practices.

having said that, obama's amateur hour has not costed the US what bush's amateur hour did. for all of bush being seen as "tough", this image came at a cost of hundreds of billions and thousands of US lives; as well as a considerable amount of international antagonism.

This is the kind of bull that I find sickening. There is no clean way to fight a war. Wars are dirty, unpredictable, and damned expensive in both blood and treasure. The only way to avoid it was to avoid the wars all together ... and you can't tell me that we could have avoided Afghanistan.

Iraq was poorly thought out but to this date, no one has ever counter-argued that getting rid of Saddam was not a strategic imperative.

on a strategic level, what obama has done poorly fades into insignificance (for instance, syria is still relatively unimportant to the US; russia remains a second-rate power),

That's because the US is also a second rate power.

while what bush did poorly affects the US to this very day (tens of thousands of troops still in afghanistan, trillions spent on the GWOT).

A strategic necessity, especially after 11 September.

what i want to point out is that perceptions of presidential strength matter a lot less now than it did during the Cold War, where perceptions of weakness could mean the difference between peace and global war.

Instead, we're letting the likes of North Korea, China, and Iran dictate the picture of their own regional peace and war.

Both Obama and Hillary were adamant that Iran would not be allowed a nuke. Too late.

[Captain Worley]

The Republicans.

Not just them. Plenty of people remember it. The only people that claim they don't are just putting their hands over their ears and going 'nah-nah-nah, I can't hear you.'

Coincidentally they claim to no one remembers the Benghazi and IRS scandals.

I think Obama is going to go down as worse than Carter of for no other reason than the voters showed Carter the door after one term.

Carter was a nice guy in over his head. Obama is in over his head

[Blademaster]

Not just them. Plenty of people remember it. The only people that claim they don't are just putting their hands over their ears and going 'nah-nah-nah, I can't hear you.'

Coincidentally they claim to no one remembers the Benghazi and IRS scandals.

I think Obama is going to go down as worse than Carter of for no other reason than the voters showed Carter the door after one term.

Carter was a nice guy in over his head. Obama is in over his head

Obama got the economy back on its track. Unemployment is below the level that he inherited when he took over the office. The Great Recession is over. Obama got US out of two wars. I don't see Obama being worse than Carter. You are just being hyperbolic like those Tea Partiers.