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  • #31
    Originally posted by Doktor View Post
    Physical punishment has nothing to do with discipline...
    Concur, although I went to Catholic schools in the States through the 12th grade (my 18th year) and back in those days, one of the Augustinian fathers we had in high school could punch your lights out and no one ever said a thing. Why? Because if you went home and said "Father Garret hit me," your parents would counter with, "What did you do to piss him off, asshole?" And then get a beat down from them if one's behavior was egregious enough. And you know what? I wouldn't change a thing. The Disciplinary Vice-Principal, who wasn't a priest, was a retired USMC drill instructor. He never hit anyone. His favorite thing was to have you kneel on one of those three-edged rulers, and then copy down the Marine Corps prayer. Never heard of it? Well, here it is:

    Almighty Father, whose command is over all and whose love never fails, make me aware of Thy presence and obedient to Thy will. Keep me true to my best self, guarding me against dishonesty in purpose and deed and helping me to live so that I can face my fellow Marines, my loved ones, and Thee without shame or fear. Protect my family.

    Give me the will to do the work of a Marine and to accept my share of responsibilities with vigor and enthusiasm. Grant me the courage to be proficient in my daily performance. Keep me loyal and faithful to my superiors and to the duties my Country and the Marine Corps have entrusted to me. Help me to wear my uniform with dignity, and let it remind me daily of the traditions which I must uphold.

    If I am inclined to doubt, steady my faith; if I am tempted, make me strong to resist; if I should miss the mark, give me courage to try again.

    Guide me with the light of truth and grant me wisdom by which I may understand the answer to my prayer.


    By the time you got to the bottom, you had a deep, painful groove just below your kneecaps and you weren't inclined ever to incur his wrath again. ;)

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      Physical punishment has nothing to do with discipline...
      On the contrary,it's the most important cause of discipline.
      Those who know don't speak
      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mihais View Post
        On the contrary,it's the most important cause of discipline.
        That's fear, not discipline. True, they will behave, but they wont study. You may even turn them into robots, yet they wont be able to think.

        There has to be mutual respect and trust for kids to absorb and understand what you tell them.
        Last edited by Doktor; 29 Sep 13,, 16:51.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

        Comment


        • #34
          Yes,but before they can to do anything,they need to behave.When you have their attention,you can teach them.
          As ole Niccolo might say,you gotta be both a lion and a fox.
          Those who know don't speak
          He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by desertswo View Post
            While I appreciate the comment, I don't like to talk about the universality of the English language because I view it as a very bullshit one-way street. It's great that everyone speaks it, if you come from one of the states in the Anglosphere, but it makes us lazy and what it does in those states with regard to foreign language training is nothing short of monstrous. We are absolute shit when it comes to teaching foreign languages in the US, and I don't imagine it's really any better anywhere else in the UK, Australia; hell even in Canada which is supposed to be a semi-bilingual nation by law, they aren't terribly good at it.
            ........
            Well, in a word.............ICAO, which essentially said the language of civil aviation will be English.

            As things go, I learned, no, that's not right, took French in high school. It was rather required because I was competing for scholarships. It has served me well.....because as horrible as I was at it in high school and as mean of a struggle it was, I spent many a lunch hour in the classroom, I didn't have to go through it at the college level. I was exempt because I took it in high school, as a child.

            But I can't speak it. I can maybe listen to it if it is slow enough, perhaps read it with enough patience and a dictionary, and I use it in acting, a few select phrases here and there.

            Languages are interesting in that here in the southwest, the recommend ones to learn are Spanish and Japanese. I would like to learn Spanish for at least three reasons. The Spanish TV looks so much more interesting than the English TV, I have professional collegues in Mexico, and for the various foreign movies I watch, I want to be hearing the words, connecting it with the speaker, instead of struggling with subtitles to who is saying what.

            But.....while I may dream at times in the various languages I have experience with (French, Arabic, Japanese, Tagalog, German (in a negative expodential amount)), I have yet to master that learning link in my pretty head. It is something I need to learn, both from enhancing my resume but probably more in my acting, both from doing it and being able to enjoy that of others. As I said, here in the southwest, Spanish would be a good thing but I can see how my French and Arabic childhood learnings could come into use in the Pacific regions.

            As far as by what means, I don't know. In high school, we used the dreaded verb wheels. I have lots of cheaper language books, tapes, CD's at home. I memorize phrases off the Net translators to use in my acting. As far as Rosetta Stone goes, well call me paranoid, but I have a high level of mistrust of advertising especially when it comes to that advertising where they say all the people that use their product. When it comes to spending that much money, I don't want to find that their definition of learning to accomplish the goal is far, far different than mine.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by desertswo View Post
              I never had any issues with what is known in the business as "classroom management." You've seen my pictures. Seriously, do I look like someone a kid wants to take on, even on a good day? It's all about attitude and what in the military is known as "command presence." Kids recognize it, even if they don't know why. They want to be lead. No; my issues were solely with the administrators and for reasons that had nothing whatsoever to do with the kid's behavior; and everything to do with theirs.
              You would have had fun in a small town near Eugene. The administrators issue a whip and chair as standard issue. They even offer combat pay to get teachers to come in and baby sit the riots for a year.
              Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                Concur, although I went to Catholic schools in the States through the 12th grade (my 18th year) and back in those days, one of the Augustinian fathers we had in high school could punch your lights out and no one ever said a thing. Why? Because if you went home and said "Father Garret hit me," your parents would counter with, "What did you do to piss him off, asshole?" And then get a beat down from them if one's behavior was egregious enough. And you know what? I wouldn't change a thing. The Disciplinary Vice-Principal, who wasn't a priest, was a retired USMC drill instructor. He never hit anyone. His favorite thing was to have you kneel on one of those three-edged rulers, and then copy down the Marine Corps prayer. Never heard of it? Well, here it is:

                Almighty Father, whose command is over all and whose love never fails, make me aware of Thy presence and obedient to Thy will. Keep me true to my best self, guarding me against dishonesty in purpose and deed and helping me to live so that I can face my fellow Marines, my loved ones, and Thee without shame or fear. Protect my family.

                Give me the will to do the work of a Marine and to accept my share of responsibilities with vigor and enthusiasm. Grant me the courage to be proficient in my daily performance. Keep me loyal and faithful to my superiors and to the duties my Country and the Marine Corps have entrusted to me. Help me to wear my uniform with dignity, and let it remind me daily of the traditions which I must uphold.

                If I am inclined to doubt, steady my faith; if I am tempted, make me strong to resist; if I should miss the mark, give me courage to try again.

                Guide me with the light of truth and grant me wisdom by which I may understand the answer to my prayer.


                By the time you got to the bottom, you had a deep, painful groove just below your kneecaps and you weren't inclined ever to incur his wrath again. ;)



                That sounds like my public Jr High in Illinois. Some of the teachers were vets from Nam and a couple were ex NFL types. I watched the dean play softball. He wouldn't just hit a home run he literally crushed the ball. His office was small and paddling was allowed. No way in hell was I ever going in there for disciplinary issues. No teacher took any crap from any student and discipline was handed out automatically. Although there were some issues by and large it was an orderly place where you could learn.
                Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                Comment


                • #38
                  What happened that physical discipline was no longer allowed. Was it because of some stupid principals or teachers that went overboard with excessive physical discipline.

                  I always follow the dictum, "If you are going to use physical discipline, the only time you can do it is when you are calm and not angry and you are applying it for deterrence, not punishment."

                  I prefer to use humiliation as my number one tool because teenagers are always about image. If you break their image and threaten to do it again, 90% of the time, they will comply.

                  To restore discipline, we have to start enforcing the idea that talking back to teachers or giving crap or shit to teachers and educators will be seriously bad for your image.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                    What happened that physical discipline was no longer allowed. Was it because of some stupid principals or teachers that went overboard with excessive physical discipline.

                    I always follow the dictum, "If you are going to use physical discipline, the only time you can do it is when you are calm and not angry and you are applying it for deterrence, not punishment."
                    I am not against corporal punishment, but spanking as deterrence seems just sadistic
                    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by antimony View Post
                      I am not against corporal punishment, but spanking as deterrence seems just sadistic
                      it is not sadistic. You only apply the discipline to deter the act or behavior that necessitated the action in the first place after all verbal and passive attempts to correct the behavior has failed.

                      it is not the first resort but a last resort. By the way, proper spanking in front of the class imparts no permanent harm, only bruised egos or pride. So how is that sadistic?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                        it is not sadistic. You only apply the discipline to deter the act or behavior that necessitated the action in the first place after all verbal and passive attempts to correct the behavior has failed.

                        it is not the first resort but a last resort. By the way, proper spanking in front of the class imparts no permanent harm, only bruised egos or pride. So how is that sadistic?
                        Ok, when you said deterrence I thought spanking without any underlying disciplinary event.
                        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          "Spare the rod and spoil the child" We can see the effects of non corporal punishment all through society. Kids are no longer had the manners as their predecessors. Kids to need some solid rules and boundaries but that is all too often lacking in today's schools. The prevailing thought was to "preserve the kid's self esteem" The problem is that the kids changed their standards. Self esteem is no longer getting an "A". It is all about dissing the teacher and swinging the dick aka thuggery. My old Jr high did use paddling as a last resort but much of the consequences were automatic and mandatory. You were late to class without an excuse and you knew that the following afternoon you were going to sit in detention. Same for talking back to a teacher.
                          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                            "Spare the rod and spoil the child" We can see the effects of non corporal punishment all through society. Kids are no longer had the manners as their predecessors. Kids to need some solid rules and boundaries but that is all too often lacking in today's schools. The prevailing thought was to "preserve the kid's self esteem" The problem is that the kids changed their standards. Self esteem is no longer getting an "A". It is all about dissing the teacher and swinging the dick aka thuggery. My old Jr high did use paddling as a last resort but much of the consequences were automatic and mandatory. You were late to class without an excuse and you knew that the following afternoon you were going to sit in detention. Same for talking back to a teacher.
                            Kids not having the manners is a result on their role models, be it from TV, net, hood or from home.
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                              Kids not having the manners is a result on their role models, be it from TV, net, hood or from home.
                              They need good example to be sure. They also need to be encouraged to do the right thing vs the popular thing.
                              Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                                Kids not having the manners is a result on their role models, be it from TV, net, hood or from home.
                                The catch with role models is that one may not have the whole story for the person they pick to be their idol. There are a lot of people one can point to and say they are a poor role model because of the effect they have on others but how can one tell if their good role model is really that good of a person to follow? It doesn't have to mean that the selected has a dirty secret love life; it just may be that to achieve the kind of life that others look at in respect may have been achieved at a high price, a personal hell that should not be wished upon anyone, but particularly the young.

                                All that said, it is probably best that they pick a parent or elder relative for they are the ones they probably know the most about.....................................

                                ..............................assuming, of course, that the parent is worthy of such.

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