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  • #16
    AR, it is a sad spectacle. I take some solace in the fact that we've been in the desert before without big guns to lead us.

    I think we may be witnessing a swing of the pendulum, left to right. What do you think?

    It doesn't happen many time times in a lifetime, and only this once in mine. Last time it was right to left in 1930s. The in-between mini-shifts, notably Reagan, were too short-lived.

    Its really not a bad thing...healthy actually. We really have gone too far in the New Deal direction. Of course, there's no going back all the way...maybe some de-Federalizing and some fiscal correction. I'd call it weeding and consolidation. Things will be explosive politically for awhile...gridlock in Congress and so forth. If history is any guide, it won't end up with the tea party in control. It's like a 3rd party, a catalyst, but too radical. We'll see a more moderate brand of conservatism take hold.

    Just a prediction from a old poly sci major.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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    • #17
      I am not too concerned about the Government shutdown, but I am wondering if the Republicans are crazy enough to not pass the debt ceiling. That would be insane and could lead to a crisis greater than 2008.

      I think Obama is right to refuse to negotiate on this one, using the debt ceiling for political extortion has to end.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
        JAD

        That the Grand Old Party would become this.

        You and I see it on our TV daily with Cuchenelli and McCaulife.

        Really? This is the best the Old Dominion can do?

        As I say ....Where is Dirksen? Where is Hollingsworth? Where is Rockefeller? Where is Nunn? Where is Baker?

        Tip and Dutch may have trashed each other in private (or semi-private) but they GOVERNED!!!!


        Where the hell is governing in all of this???

        Names I long miss also along with M.C. Smith, Brooke, Javits, and Hatfield to name a few others. Their kind is now long extinct I'm afraid. Even Packwood I would put there for his stands in the 70's despite what later occurred in the early 90's.
        Last edited by tbm3fan; 30 Sep 13,, 05:55.

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        • #19
          AR,

          Why the GOP is making you vote for Dems?

          Haven't the Senate been here already? The POTUS knows he can't pass a budget like this, yet he pushes it? Why?

          They are both mad for playing poker with stakes so high.
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

          Comment


          • #20
            Both sides are zealots, they should be lined up against the wall. Why the GOP does not want every employed person to take insurance (for themselves i must add) is probably the most perplexing paradox of today's american, im still waiting to hear a rational explanation of their argument. Why Obama thinks he can talk to Rohan, Putin, Natenyahu etc but not fellow americans just because they hold a different view, to the extent of likening them to terrorist suicide bombers, is the height of arrogance which is not fitting of a leader of a country of US' stature.

            Perhaps what i find most infuriating in all this is the complete disregard, total dismissal of the rights of unborn future generations. How a today's american thinks it is right to take away a trillion dollars every year from future generations with no plan whatsoever of paying it back or even a sense of responsibility to pay it back makes me believe that indeed man is inherently selfish, greedy, and outright evil to the core. By demanding education, health, wealth, security of a today's american now by stealing a trillion dollars from future generations, today's american is gutting the trillion dollars that the future american would have used for his education, health, wealth and security and living him with no choice but to be either be a beggar or steal from someone else. How even mentioning a mandatory balanced budget (forget repaying the debt itself) has become such an evil term that is assigned only to goblins for anyone who dares to utter such a thought, is beyond me. There is no one, i repeat, no one today in America who will be willing to donate $200bn to future generations from today's budget but people would burn you at the stake if you try stopping them from looting a trillion dollars that is not theirs - how that is logical, please someone educate me! Americans have become callous, self serving monsters that would stop at nothing to feed their insatiable lists of want, want, want!

            Right now, i don't care what budget is agreed on now, i just want somebody to tell me what America's debt will be at the end of the fiscal year of whatever budget is passed. If it is more than it is today, unless they can accompany it with a mandatory action plan that will reduce the increase to zero within the next five year..........i say let government shut down! Frankly, let America default come mid Oct. Future generations have not authorised anyone to use their money, they didn't cast a vote for their poverty. America does not start and end with today's american, there is America after this sickening selfish american of today. If it takes a government shut down and/or a default to make people live within their means so be it! I feel very offended by today's american!!!!!!
            Last edited by Zinja; 01 Oct 13,, 00:21.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post

              The reason I dislike the Republicans is they keep forcing me to vote for Democrats!
              This is the biggest reason behind my ire against the Republican leadership. Because they cannot stand up to those nutty people, i.e., the Tea Partiers, and smack them down, I have lost complete respect for the Republican leadership.

              I think the moderate Republicans need to leave the party and set up their own party calling themselves as the Forward Republicans or the New Republicans although it sounds similar to New Deal.

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              • #22
                They need to drop the term "republicans" all together. Too much negative baggage connected to that name.
                Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                  JAD

                  That the Grand Old Party would become this.

                  You and I see it on our TV daily with Cuchenelli and McCaulife.

                  Really? This is the best the Old Dominion can do?

                  As I say ....Where is Dirksen? Where is Hollingsworth? Where is Rockefeller? Where is Nunn? Where is Baker?

                  Tip and Dutch may have trashed each other in private (or semi-private) but they GOVERNED!!!!


                  Where the hell is governing in all of this???
                  Why the hell do you need "governing?" I've been a big boy for a long time now. I allowed myself to be "governed" for 25 years. I'm over that phase and happily cured.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    SWO

                    Governance gives us things like roads, meat inspectors, air traffic controllers, vaccines and park rangers.

                    Oh yeah....and DOD too.

                    It's the price of living in a civilized society.
                    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                    Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                      This is the biggest reason behind my ire against the Republican leadership. Because they cannot stand up to those nutty people, i.e., the Tea Partiers, and smack them down, I have lost complete respect for the Republican leadership.

                      I think the moderate Republicans need to leave the party and set up their own party calling themselves as the Forward Republicans or the New Republicans although it sounds similar to New Deal.
                      +1

                      Yes, it might lead to sweeping Democrat control for a couple of election cycles, but if the issues of debt and the poor economy persist it wont take long before the people look for an alternative, and with the tea party marginalized, a moderate conservative party could win by a landslide.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        So Reid has turned down the request by the house for conference. The tea party has always thought to be reckless and unreasonable, but think the Democrats are showing this time that two can play at that game.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          With Congress at impasse, government starts shutting down
                          September 30, 2013

                          WASHINGTON — U.S. government agencies were ordered to close for the first time in more than 17 years after lawmakers stalemated over Republican efforts to block President Obama's healthcare law. More than 800,000 federal workers were to spend Tuesday, the first day of the new fiscal year, on unpaid furloughs as agency managers executed contingency plans for the costly process of closing down operations indefinitely. The official word to shut down came from the White House just before midnight Monday. Hours earlier, the Senate, by a 54-46 party-line vote, killed a House measure that would have funded government agencies for six weeks but delayed key parts of Obamacare for a year.

                          It was the second such vote that the Senate took during a day in which the two chambers exchanged volleys of legislation with little expectation that any of it would become law. The one exception to the legislative futility was a bill to ensure that military service members would be paid during the shutdown. Obama signed it into law late Monday night. Obama warned that a shutdown would harm the nation's economy and vowed that the healthcare law, his signature domestic policy achievement, would move forward.

                          Indeed, among the ironies of the standoff is that a shutdown will have no effect on the law the Republicans tried to block. The money to implement the law does not depend on the annual spending bills stuck in the congressional logjam. A major element of Obamacare, online marketplaces that consumers without insurance can use to buy coverage, will open to the public Tuesday.

                          "That funding is already in place. You can't shut it down," Obama said during a short appearance earlier in the White House briefing room. "This is a law that passed both houses of Congress, a law that bears my signature, a law that the Supreme Court upheld as constitutional, a law that voters chose not to repeal last November," he said, referring to his reelection. "I'm always willing to work with anyone of either party to make sure the Affordable Care Act works better," he added. "But one faction of one party in one house of Congress in one branch of government doesn't get to shut down the entire government just to refight the results of an election."
                          Source: LA Times

                          So it begins. What the Tea Party faction of the GOP has done here is shameful. Holding the US budget/economy hostage is nothing less than extortion.
                          sigpic

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                          • #28
                            Let's hope that they stick to their guns this time. Time and again we see the Republicans cave to the looney left, and that is what brought us the Tea Party. They brought this - now don't wimp out after causing the trouble, own it and make it right.

                            By the way - I'm now furloughed, so yes this shutdown affects me negatively. But I'll take the hit as long as it will do some good. If I'm going to be forced to sacrifice with no more income coming in, don't deal just to deal and go back to the way it was so we can have this fight again next year.
                            "Bother", said Poo, chambering another round.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                              Source: LA Times

                              So it begins. What the Tea Party faction of the GOP has done here is shameful. Holding the US budget/economy hostage is nothing less than extortion.
                              I asked it once, will ask again...

                              Why the TP standing to what they understand to be the right thing to do is bad, while the Dems sticking to their side is OK?

                              IMV, both sides are loonies. This is not politics.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by InExile View Post
                                So Reid has turned down the request by the house for conference. The tea party has always thought to be reckless and unreasonable, but think the Democrats are showing this time that two can play at that game.
                                No Reid didn't do it because it was reckless but a way of showing resolve that the Tea Party tactics will not work and also send a message to the GOP to stop wasting time.

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