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Hagel: Obama Words on Sex Assault "umwarranted influence"
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While I can understand his angst and frustration, Obama should have sought legal opinions before sounding off.
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The point is not that the President shouldn't comment on the situation. It's that he shouldn't comment publicly on the situation. Once he has, in the eyes of the lawyers, and at the end of the day, a JAG is a lawyer, is a lawyer, is a lawyer . . .
When they hear something like that, they are going to use it to their advantage. It's not about being automatons or thinking beings, it's about trying to beat the system. They are using what the man upstairs threw them.
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Originally posted by JAD_333 View PostI suppose 'harsher' penalties in relative terms means harsher than what we have now. Piling on is the usual reaction by lawmakers. Never solves the problem. Look at the war on drugs. Once in full swing, drug use, smuggling etc just got worse.
From your experience as judge and jury in military courts martial--BTW, as former Navy I know what Captain's Masts are :)--I'd venture to guess that you expected some of your decisions would get more outside attention than others, and I'd also venture to guess that at times you felt harsher penalties were called for when certain types of violations were becoming rampant.
We have something in common in that I too worked for several SecDef's, starting with Weinberger and both his successors, Carlucci and Chaney, but in a civilian capacity. Handled all their public and media stuff, and base visits, except black box stuff. Got to see them up close and personal. Weinberger was a good man; he got hosed in the Iran-Contra scandal, unfairly I think, thanks in part to his mil asst, that paragon of virtue, Colin Powell. Carlucci was the best of the bunch, administrative wise, but he wanted to make money so left and went to work for Sears International and then the Carlyle Group. Chaney I didn't serve for long. He, or at least his staff, thought their sh*t didn't stink and broke any rule they didn't like. But I'll say this about Chaney; he was a master of taking control. Came in and fired the first general who stepped out of line. Did wonders around the building. Anyway, I loved my job; of course, when Clinton came that was all she wrote for us Reagan-Bush appointees.
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Guest repliedOriginally posted by Blademaster View PostSex crimes are rapes and unwanted forced sexual advances, not those cited examples you just gave. Any person with two peas for a brain can tell the difference.
Originally posted by Blademaster View PostYou are engaging in Reductio ad absurdum arguments
Originally posted by Blademaster View Postand no, Obama should not shut up. He is the commander in chief and he has the authority to tell to his troops not to engage in sex crimes.
Originally posted by Blademaster View PostObama is the President of the United States and JAG follows him, not the other way around.Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 17 Aug 13,, 18:28.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostGuilty of what? Fractinization in the Field? Holding hands with your wife?
Let's go up the ladder and even include sex. Even concential, in the Field, it's against the Queen's Rules and at least Discharge with Disgrace. But is it rape? Does the guy need to do time at the Edmonton Barracks?
Let's go further and the case is brought forth a Not Guilty, does the man retains his rank and his chances of promotion after this, right after Obama said he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law? What Officer would now speak up for this man, to get him his promotions, right after your C-In-C said punish him.
Obama should have shut up and leave this to JAG.
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Guest repliedOriginally posted by Blademaster View PostFor a person who is guilty of sex crimes, why would you allow him to continue to work for you?
Let's go up the ladder and even include sex. Even concential, in the Field, it's against the Queen's Rules and at least Discharge with Disgrace. But is it rape? Does the guy need to do time at the Edmonton Barracks?
Let's go further and the case is brought forth a Not Guilty, does the man retains his rank and his chances of promotion after this, right after Obama said he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law? What Officer would now speak up for this man, to get him his promotions, right after your C-In-C said punish him.
Obama should have shut up and leave this to JAG.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostThis is the military. You still have to work for the guy who thinks you're guilty, ie, Obama. Undue Command Influence.
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Guest repliedOriginally posted by Blademaster View PostThat argument doesn't hold up in the civilian courts.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostThat is EXACTLY how the Defence is now wording this. In effect, there is no difference between a trial abnd plea bargining.
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Guest repliedThat is EXACTLY how the Defence is now wording this. In effect, there is no difference between a trial abnd plea bargining.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostIf I am correct, the death penalty is the maximum sentence in the US and do note that the courts do practice charging lesser crimes (manslaughter vs murder) in plea barginings. What Obama effectively stated is that such will not be allowed.
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Guest repliedIf I am correct, the death penalty is the maximum sentence in the US and do note that the courts do practice charging lesser crimes (manslaughter vs murder) in plea barginings. What Obama effectively stated is that such will not be allowed.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostThat is not the same as Mandatory Maximum sentencing.
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Guest repliedThat is not the same as Mandatory Maximum sentencing.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostThe other side of this is how many women uses the threat of sexual charges to get what they want. There are women who deliberately get pregnant just to avoid deployment.
It is not as simple as rape.
I don't know. I don't have the statistics but it is not Obama's place to order punishment to the fullest extent of the law. That is the pre-orgative of the judge and jury.
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