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Hagel: Obama Words on Sex Assault "umwarranted influence"

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  • Hagel: Obama Words on Sex Assault "umwarranted influence"

    Being a lawyer and president, Mr O should know better. Apparently he's succeeded in getting the exact opposite results he wanted in military sex abuse cases.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/us...-cases.html?hp

    By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
    Published: August 14, 2013

    WASHINGTON — In an effort to stop military lawyers from using comments by President Obama to prevent sexual assault prosecutions, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has sent out a directive ordering the military to exercise independent judgment in the cases and effectively ignore the president’s remarks.

    “There are no expected or required dispositions, outcomes or sentences in any military justice case, other than what result from the individual facts and merits of a case and the application to the case of the fundamentals of due process of law,” Mr. Hagel wrote in a memorandum dated Aug. 6 that is to be disseminated throughout the military.

    Since May, when Mr. Obama said at the White House that sexual offenders in the military ought to be “prosecuted, stripped of their positions, court-martialed, fired, dishonorably discharged,” lawyers in dozens of assault cases have argued that Mr. Obama’s words as commander in chief amounted to “unlawful command influence,” tainting trials and creating unfair circumstances for clients as a result.

    Their motions have had some success. At Shaw Air Force Base in South Carolina in June, a judge dismissed charges of sexual assault against an Army officer, noting the command influence issue. In Hawaii, a Navy judge ruled last month that two defendants in sexual assault cases, if found guilty, could not be punitively discharged because of Mr. Obama’s remarks.

    “Unlawful command influence” refers to actions of commanders that could be interpreted by jurors as an attempt to influence a court-martial and in effect ordering a specific outcome. Mr. Obama, as commander in chief of the armed forces, is considered the most powerful person to wield such influence.

    Mr. Obama’s legal team, as well as Mr. Hagel, are trying to undo the potential damage to sexual assault cases in the future. Mr. Hagel’s memorandum quoted Kathryn Ruemmler, the White House counsel, as saying that the president “expects all military personnel who are involved in any way in the military justice process to exercise their independent and professional judgment.”

    The White House declined to comment, but Lt. Col. Todd Breasseale, a Pentagon spokesman, said, “The secretary has been consistently clear here, and his commanders understand his intent,” noting that the memo “speaks for itself.”

    Mr. Hagel’s letter produced some skepticism. “They are trying to unring the bell,” said Richard Scheff, a lawyer who cited unlawful command influence on behalf of his client, Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair, accused of sexually assaulting an Army captain with whom he had an adulterous affair. “I don’t know how President Obama can direct that certain types of punishment be administered and now you are supposed to ignore it. How does that work?”

    In General Sinclair’s case, a military judge decided that the president’s comments did constitute unlawful command influence and that he would determine during jury selection whether the comments had tainted the case. Many other lawyers are awaiting rulings on similar motions that cite Mr. Obama’s remarks, as well as those of Gen. James F. Amos, the commandant of the Marine Corps, who in a speech last year asserted that 80 percent of sexual assault cases were legitimate and not the result of second thoughts from people who initially consented.

    Experts in military law said it was unusual for a memorandum like Mr. Hagel’s to come from the secretary of defense, who directed recipients to “ensure this message is widely and immediately disseminated throughout your organizations.”

    “It is a remarkable document,” said Eugene R. Fidell, who teaches military justice at Yale Law School. “I can’t remember a document quite like this coming from an official at this senior a level. It has been said that ‘unlawful command influence’ is the mortal enemy of military justice.”

    But this directive, Mr. Fidell said, “is a kind of anti-venom to try to counteract the unfortunate statements that have given rise to the current wave of unlawful command influence motions.”

    A recent Pentagon survey found that an estimated 26,000 men and women in the military were sexually assaulted last year, up from 19,000 in 2010. At the end of the last fiscal year, Sept. 30, there were roughly 1,600 sexual assault cases within the military either awaiting action from commanders or the completion of a criminal investigation.

    The issue has become front and center on Capitol Hill, where Senator Kirsten E. Gillibrand, Democrat of New York, has sponsored a bill that would give independent military prosecutors, rather than commanders, the power to decide which sexual assault crimes to try.

    John D. Altenburg Jr., a former deputy judge advocate general for the Army who now practices law in Washington, said the letter could be useful for the administration.

    “It can only be positive,” he said. “I am not sure it was absolutely necessary, but this certainly clears the air. Most people in the military understand that comments are made by people for political purposes and they are not to take that under consideration, but this makes it clear to everybody.”
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  • #2
    I fail to see how it is undue command influence. Obama is the commander in chief and has the supreme authority of disciplining the offenders and set certain standards of conduct that a commander in chief has the right to expect and the right to enforce with whatever means necessary. Don't forget that the Senate made all the hoopla about the sex offenses and wanted bigger punishments and Obama followed suit. So if you want to castigate Obama, then include John McCain as well as others.

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    • #3
      Obama's directives are seen as overriding the UCMJ.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
        I fail to see how it is undue command influence. Obama is the commander in chief and has the supreme authority of disciplining the offenders and set certain standards of conduct that a commander in chief has the right to expect and the right to enforce with whatever means necessary. Don't forget that the Senate made all the hoopla about the sex offenses and wanted bigger punishments and Obama followed suit. So if you want to castigate Obama, then include John McCain as well as others.
        To put the colonel's comment another way, when the commander in chief telegraphs what ought to happen to anyone under his command who is convicted of a sex crime, he is influencing the outcome of the trial, and that as everyone knows is good cause for the defense to cry prejudice. Hence no trial.

        Some in the Senate are for changing the way sexual offenders in the military are tried and are calling for stiffer penalties, but until the Senate acts as a body it is incorrect to say the Senate is for harsher measures. Also, the Senate, not being in command of the military, cannot be accused of undue command influence.
        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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        • #5
          Congress is also the proper body to rewrite the UCMJ to change the penalties meted out for various crimes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
            To put the colonel's comment another way, when the commander in chief telegraphs what ought to happen to anyone under his command who is convicted of a sex crime, he is influencing the outcome of the trial, and that as everyone knows is good cause for the defense to cry prejudice. Hence no trial.

            Some in the Senate are for changing the way sexual offenders in the military are tried and are calling for stiffer penalties, but until the Senate acts as a body it is incorrect to say the Senate is for harsher measures. Also, the Senate, not being in command of the military, cannot be accused of undue command influence.
            How much "harsher" is "harsher?" I've been the investigating officer in a lot of Article 32s, sat more than a few General Courts Martial panels, and of course, been judge, jury and executioner at more Article 15s (or as we call it in the Navy, "Captain's Mast") than I care to recall. There is this nagging bell going off in my head saying rape could be a hanging offense. It's been a long time so I won't swear to that, but it seems to me that the penalties can be pretty harsh.

            Regardless, the Commander-in-Chief, joke that he is, ought to keep his yap shut about things like this, or at least choose his words more carefully. Of course, he really doesn't understand all this stuff, because just like Bill Clinton, for whom I once worked, he didn't take the time to get to know "us." Clinton finally did in his second term, and I must confess, I enjoyed working in his defense establishment on the Joint Staff. I worked for George Bush for six months, and while I had no issues with him, Donald Rumsfeld was an absolute asshole of major proportions. He knew everything, and if you didn't think so, just wait a while, he'd tell you so eventually. I voted for Mr. Bush, but I didn't vote for that cheese dick. What a waste of opportunities under that turd. Sorry, we kind of hit a nerve there.

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            • #7
              desertswo,

              I enjoyed working in his defense establishment on the Joint Staff
              that is one sick, sick admission....
              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

              Comment


              • #8
                When the sexual offenses are on the rise or being unchecked or not enforced, then how do you expect the commander in chief to respond? I see more of it as a discipline matter and he is telling his generals and commanders that they are not doing their job of enforcing the current existing military code of justice and letting the offenders off easy. Witness the base commander letting off an airman (I forgot the names and ranks so forgive me) for sexual offenses and that set off a media shit storm and it was not only the Senate that got mad, but half of the US population mad. So I don't blame the President for making the comment. I blame the U.S. military courts for making that happen and allowing it to become "undue influence" I think it is a bullshit and flimsy defense. I hope that this gets appealed to the highest court possible.

                The President has the constitutional right to expect and demand certain standards from the military and that is what he did when he made those comments.

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                • #9
                  Not the President's place to tell the judge and jury to find the perp guilty and hang them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    How much "harsher" is "harsher?" I've been the investigating officer in a lot of Article 32s, sat more than a few General Courts Martial panels, and of course, been judge, jury and executioner at more Article 15s (or as we call it in the Navy, "Captain's Mast") than I care to recall. There is this nagging bell going off in my head saying rape could be a hanging offense. It's been a long time so I won't swear to that, but it seems to me that the penalties can be pretty harsh.

                    Regardless, the Commander-in-Chief, joke that he is, ought to keep his yap shut about things like this, or at least choose his words more carefully. Of course, he really doesn't understand all this stuff, because just like Bill Clinton, for whom I once worked, he didn't take the time to get to know "us." Clinton finally did in his second term, and I must confess, I enjoyed working in his defense establishment on the Joint Staff. I worked for George Bush for six months, and while I had no issues with him, Donald Rumsfeld was an absolute asshole of major proportions. He knew everything, and if you didn't think so, just wait a while, he'd tell you so eventually. I voted for Mr. Bush, but I didn't vote for that cheese dick. What a waste of opportunities under that turd. Sorry, we kind of hit a nerve there.
                    I suppose 'harsher' penalties in relative terms means harsher than what we have now. Piling on is the usual reaction by lawmakers. Never solves the problem. Look at the war on drugs. Once in full swing, drug use, smuggling etc just got worse.

                    From your experience as judge and jury in military courts martial--BTW, as former Navy I know what Captain's Masts are :)--I'd venture to guess that you expected some of your decisions would get more outside attention than others, and I'd also venture to guess that at times you felt harsher penalties were called for when certain types of violations were becoming rampant.

                    We have something in common in that I too worked for several SecDef's, starting with Weinberger and both his successors, Carlucci and Chaney, but in a civilian capacity. Handled all their public and media stuff, and base visits, except black box stuff. Got to see them up close and personal. Weinberger was a good man; he got hosed in the Iran-Contra scandal, unfairly I think, thanks in part to his mil asst, that paragon of virtue, Colin Powell. Carlucci was the best of the bunch, administrative wise, but he wanted to make money so left and went to work for Sears International and then the Carlyle Group. Chaney I didn't serve for long. He, or at least his staff, thought their sh*t didn't stink and broke any rule they didn't like. But I'll say this about Chaney; he was a master of taking control. Came in and fired the first general who stepped out of line. Did wonders around the building. Anyway, I loved my job; of course, when Clinton came that was all she wrote for us Reagan-Bush appointees.
                    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                      Not the President's place to tell the judge and jury to find the perp guilty and hang them.
                      I do not think he said like that. He said enforce the laws to stamp out sexual offenses going on and to deter further sex crimes and to stop sex crimes from occurring.

                      Moreover, in a military, discipline runs supreme over justice. if you have sex crimes occurring in the military, you have a failure of discipline.

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                      • #12
                        Receiving a kiss from a grandmother after you just pull her granddaughter out of a ditch is a violation of the Queen's Rules. You want me to go after that.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          Receiving a kiss from a grandmother after you just pull her granddaughter out of a ditch is a violation of the Queen's Rules. You want me to go after that.
                          Now you are making an Reductio ad absurdum argument. Please give me another one and this time, a valid one.

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                          • #14
                            Man and wife deployed on the same mission. They found some alone time. No sex. Just holding each other.

                            And yes, they were tossed out of the CF.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              Man and wife deployed on the same mission. They found some alone time. No sex. Just holding each other.

                              And yes, they were tossed out of the CF.
                              How is that a sex crime? The context here is sex crimes, unwanted advances of sexual connotation or rape. By the way, how did your premier get involved in that? Was it undue influence?

                              How that happeened was the fault of the local commanders for allowing such an absurd situation to happen. they could have ignore it or do a non judicial discipline but somebody along the chain of command want it to happen.

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