Militarization of the police in the United States

[Minskaya]

95-year-old man dies after police confrontation
Saturday, July 27, 2013

State investigators are looking into the death of a 95-year-old suburban man after an armed confrontation with police. Police in far south suburban Park Forest say they were called Friday night by a private ambulance service transporting what they described as a combative patient. Police say they used a stun gun and bean bag rounds to subdue the man after he'd threatened them first with a cane and then a knife. Police also say he was conscious after the incident, but later died at the hospital. An autopsy is pending.

Source: ABC7Chicago.com

This I have a problem with.

John Warna was a 95 year old man living in a retirement home. He was initially tasered and then shot with bean-bag rounds by police. Such rounds are considered non-lethal, but the damage they can inflict is dependent upon distance and the particular area of the body impacted. Come on, there must have been a better and less violent way to subdue this old-timer who required a cane to shuffle around.

How fast/strong can such an aged person be? A squirt of pepper spray would probably have sufficed.

[Monash]

Words fail me. What kind of training and supervision did these idiots receive?

[Minskaya]

Words fail me. What kind of training and supervision did these idiots receive?

It must be a small suburb. The Park Forest Police Department has 42 sworn officers who work 12 hour shifts and there is no residency requirement.

parkforestpolice | Proud to Serve

[Monash]

Y'ere I've never understood how the the whole county, city, state and federal law enforcement model as adopted in the US manages to hang together. I can see how county PD's give the their local communities a direct say over local law enforcement but maintaining standardized levels re: recruitment, training and methodologies across hundreds of independent jurisdictions some of which will have severe resource constraints looks like a nightmare scenario to someone coming from an environment where there are only state and federal PD.s.

[Doktor]

Monash, I know how you feel.

It all started when I wondered why there are no Secretary (Ministry) of Interior.

I had hard time to grasp Sheriff, State, Federal thingy. Still not sure if I have it right.

[Minskaya]

Y'ere I've never understood how the the whole county, city, state and federal law enforcement model as adopted in the US manages to hand together. I can see how county PD's give the their local communities a direct say over local law enforcement but maintaining standardized levels re: recruitment, training and methodologies across hundreds of independent jurisdictions some of which will have severe resource constraints looks like a nightmare scenario to someone coming from an environment where there are only state and federal PD.s.

In regards to training, I believe that all sworn police officers in Illinois (except Chicago) must graduate from the Illinois State Police Academy in Springfield. Chicago has its own police academy.

Where I live (160,000) in western Du Page County, the municipal police department has a staff of 300 of which 190 are sworn officers.

[zraver]

Monash, I know how you feel.

It all started when I wondered why there are no Secretary (Ministry) of Interior.

I had hard time to grasp Sheriff, State, Federal thingy. Still not sure if I have it right.

In Arkansas, every 640 acre township is authorized a constable, each municipality can have a police force, each county has a sheriffs department... The state has (statewide jurisdiction) highway patrol, state police, university police, game wardens, juvenile police and others....

[Monash]

As I said it sounds both expensive and hard to coordinate.

[Monash]

"Police say they used a stun gun and bean bag rounds to subdue the man after he'd threatened them first with a cane and then a knife."

I know standard SOP is that any threat involving a knife mandates the drawing of firearms in response but hell, what would it have cost to back off and assess with firearms drawn if need be. Try negotiation from a distance, and maybe use OC when you get a chance, it has at least 2-3 meter effective range. How hard can it be to keep your reactionary gap open when dealing with a sick 95 year old? I mean how old were the deputies 70?

[Minskaya]

As I said it sounds both expensive and hard to coordinate.

Where I live it is affluent suburbs separated by rolling farmland. This is where Illinois soldiers trained for Civil War duty. Du Page County is also home to Fermilab, Argonne National Laboratory, and the Illinois High Tech and Research Corridor. State Police patrol the local interstate highways, municipal police the towns, and the county sheriff everything else.

Neighboring Cook County is an entirely different animal altogether. Everything from the FBI and Federal Marshals to Metra Transit and Forest Preserve police.

[omon]

ZMind you if Zimmerman had been rigged up with a permanently "on" camera we'd all know what really happened wouldn't we? Although I guess you would counter that only Police officers carrying firearms need to be monitored - civilians can of course be trusted to do always do the right thing when carrying a gun in public can't they?
No they've got taps - so I can dance around the truth when I'm in court

that would be lovely, i'm pretty sure you'd see exactly what Z said happened, all physical evidence that exist, confirm his story, but i would love to see what those seeking "justice" would say if they showed the video, but i'm sure they would still find injustice, and would still blame someone.

and yes i think PO should be monitored with always on cameras, every second. leos have legal power to project force, power that i'm as a civilian don't normaly have, power that cops do abuse, and proof of it almost every week is all over the internet and newspapers. it is really pointless to deny. now i keep hearing about bad apples, but you know what, it doesn't matter, even those that you would say are good apples, don't help to get rid of bad ones, there is a code blue thing, (if civilians do that, we are called conspirators), it is pointless to deny it, it exsts. good cops will not normaly talk, they will not help to convict bad apples, same with pba's, so wheater they do abuse power or just know and keep quiet, makes no difference to us, civilians.

and yes i trust more a civilian carrying a gun legaly than a cop, for simple reasons. 1. cops in usa most of the time, prove they either bad shots (34st shooting, 9 pedestrian shot by cops), or have horoble judgmet on where to use their gun (same incedent, plus many more). yet they almost always get away with that. if civilian uses his gun, outside hunting, or target shooting, it is either self defence, or a crime. and responcible gun owners know it, and wont discharge their gun for no really good reason. so yea, i would be all for you wearing camera on duty all the time, and also since cops have same powers off duty as on duty, i would not mind you have them, those constant on cameras 24\7.

now that dancing around the truth is exactly what we don't want cops to do, we want the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, just what you expect from us. so i do want a camera on you, so you ain't got any room to dance.

[Doktor]

What is the size of LEOs in the US?

What is the number of violations they do?

When you put that in a percentage, what you get?

I sense now I get the "They are cops, invested with powers we the civvies can't breach unpunished.
I am willing to bet you that doctors have higher % of mistakes where the cost is also the human life. Not a single outcry. Some of them even think they are Gods.
And they are paid more, trained more, have more assistants...

[omon]

What is the size of LEOs in the US?

What is the number of violations they do?

When you put that in a percentage, what you get?

I sense now I get the "They are cops, invested with powers we the civvies can't breach unpunished.
I am willing to bet you that doctors have higher % of mistakes where the cost is also the human life. Not a single outcry. Some of them even think they are Gods.
And they are paid more, trained more, have more assistants...

idk, you can do math yourself, i'd be interested in your findings,. but how many is ok by you?
so far my friend that got ran over by off duty cop, that ran away, in nj 3 mounts ago, is dead, and cop isn't even arrested, his pba made sure of that. leaving a scene of an accident, is a felony, why isn't the cop arrested, and charged??

if you say police misconduct is justified because doctors do it more, than all gun death is also justified since cars kill more.

lets stick to apples of the thread.

[zraver]

In a way to go G-men moment....

100 girls rescue and 150 pimps jailed.... that is a productive day.

FBI rescues more than 100 children, arrests 150 pimps in sex-trafficking raid | Fox News

[Doktor]

idk, you can do math yourself, i'd be interested in your findings

I would if I had an idea where to look for the data. I don't. Hence why I asked.

but how many is ok by you?

0 (zero).
But the world is not perfect and these things will happen. Pretending that they wont is naive.

so far my friend that got ran over by off duty cop, that ran away, in nj 3 mounts ago, is dead, and cop isn't even arrested, his pba made sure of that.

Sorry for your loss. Must be terrible, especially when you see the justice not working.

Are you saying the laws are not working or that they are bent for the POs. How often this happens?

leaving a scene of an accident, is a felony, why isn't the cop arrested, and charged??

Ask the DA.

if you say police misconduct is justified because doctors do it more, than all gun death is also justified since cars kill more.

Where have I said it is justified?!
I was wondering if a comparison is possible, then how would cops fare. Moreover, since docs have higher education, more training, are better paid (motivated), have assistants...