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leading 'Ex-Gay' organization Exodus admits failure & disbands

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  • leading 'Ex-Gay' organization Exodus admits failure & disbands

    HALLELUJAH!!!!

    About bloody time the people involved in this stuff admitted what a complete sham it is. The fact that two of its male founder members became lovers, quit and married in the early 80s should have been a hint that this wasn't working. The more recent admission by its President that 99.9% of members are not 'cured' simply emphasises what a failure this has been. Not even Communism failed as comprehensively as this.

    However well intentioned some of the folk promoting the 'ex-gay' movement may be (and I only think it is some) this has always been a movement based on a lie. God only knows how many lives it has damaged over the past 35 years & how many more other such groups will damage in the future. Worse, such groups have been used as a crucial prop for those who continue to prop up their own prejudices by dismissing homosexuality as a 'lifestyle choice'. Lets hope this marks the beginning of the end of this whole nasty movement and the arguments it supports.

    In perhaps the most startling example of the recent advances by the gay rights movement in America, one of the nation's most prominent religious opponents of homosexuality has dissolved itself, issuing a long and detailed apology for the harm it caused during its 37 years of existence.

    Exodus International was formed in 1976 after a conference of Christian ministries and since then has been a proponent of what the group has called "conversion therapy", which it claimed could "cure" people of homosexuality through prayer and psychotherapy.

    During annual conferences sponsored by the evangelical group Focus on the Family and via local churches, Exodus recruited gays with the message that "the sin of homosexual behaviour, like all sins, can be forgiven and healed by the grace revealed in the life and death of Christ".

    The group was never without critics who said the so-called therapy caused confusion, distress and often despair. Studies found time and again that only a very small minority of those that sought to change succeeded – about 15 per cent, in one longitudinal study.

    Exodus was embarrassed in 1979 when senior members Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper divorced their wives and left the group to be together. They eventually shared a commitment ceremony in 1982.

    It now appears that for more than a year Exodus International's leadership has been suffering a crisis of conscience. In January 2012 its president, Alan Chambers, told a Gay Christian Network conference that 99.9 per cent of conversion therapy participants did not undergo a change in their sexuality.

    Then in July he told The New York Times that virtually every "ex-gay" he has ever met still harbours homosexual cravings, himself included.

    On Wednesday, after a unanimous vote during its annual meeting, the group's leadership decided to dissolve, with Mr Chambers telling the gathering: "I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced. I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn't change. I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatised parents."

    In an interview with The Atlantic magazine on Thursday, Mr Chambers said he still believed the organisation had done some good: "Exodus saved my life. I was vulnerable and I had no other place to go. I didn't know what the gay community was or how to find it.

    "It was a safe haven for this little kid of faith who needed an option."

    But he also said he understood why so many people were angry with Exodus. "It's been traumatic for many people. It's been horrific," he said.

    "And it's not just Exodus. It's the church. It's a religious system that has taught us how to be contrary to the heart of Christ, to treat people who are sinners in ways that God himself wouldn't ever treat them."

    Response to the apology has been mixed.

    "This is a welcome first step in honestly addressing the harm the organisation and its leaders have caused," Sharon Groves, director of the Human Rights Campaign's religion and faith program, said. "Now we need them to take the next step of leadership and persuade all other religious-based institutions that they got it wrong."

    One person commenting on a Los Angeles Times online report wrote: "Thirty-seven years spewing lies, dealing in the commerce of guilt and self-loathing and the shame that comes from failing is more than a generation of ruined lives.

    "Someone who went to Exodus International 37 years ago at 18, for example, would now be 55, with the best years of his or her life lost. There is no amount of apology that can repair those countless numbers of lives."

    The US Supreme Court is expected to make two crucial decisions on gay marriage. In one it will rule on whether or not the federal Defence of Marriage Act, which forbids federal agencies from recognising gay marriage, is constitutional. In the other it will consider a ban on gay marriage in California.

    Read more: We were wrong, admits 'gay cure' group
    sigpic

    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  • #2
    BF,

    What are the stats for healed drug addicts?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

    Comment


    • #3
      "....Studies found time and again that only a very small minority of those that sought to change succeeded – about 15 per cent, in one longitudinal study...."

      I would like to look at that data/methodology on those studies before commenting but it looks like at least 15% made a choice and that would be significant. However, what this group did was wrong and had nothing to do with Christianity. Considering the timing, aka all the watershed events lately concerning the gay movement, I wonder what the motivation was as far as the timing. Why today and not 10 years ago or 10 years from now as the program was a complete failure from the start.
      Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

      Comment


      • #4
        Jane Roe of "Roe vs. Wade" is now active in pro-life causes.
        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Doktor View Post
          BF,

          What are the stats for healed drug addicts?
          That's an interesting parallel.

          Most/all addicts understand they will always be addicted to their drug of choice (or alcohol) for life. But they manage to not consume the drug. In the same way, some gay people elect (for whatever reason) not to engage in sexual encounters, but they remain homosexual.

          Some churches look at it in a certain way. You can be 100% gay and be a church member, so long as you aren't doing the gay sex scene, or living with someone sexually. They look at it the same as a pedophile, or a married hetero who lusts after others, or basically anyone not married... don't act on the impulse, the urge, and all is well.

          Comment


          • #6
            Chogy,

            Nice input, as usual.

            I was more interested to the fail or success shown by sheer numbers.

            If that is the accepted standard, let's just change the group and see if it works in other instances. Addicts came first to mind.
            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chogy View Post
              That's an interesting parallel.

              Most/all addicts understand they will always be addicted to their drug of choice (or alcohol) for life. But they manage to not consume the drug. In the same way, some gay people elect (for whatever reason) not to engage in sexual encounters, but they remain homosexual.

              Some churches look at it in a certain way. You can be 100% gay and be a church member, so long as you aren't doing the gay sex scene, or living with someone sexually. They look at it the same as a pedophile, or a married hetero who lusts after others, or basically anyone not married... don't act on the impulse, the urge, and all is well.
              Not really a good comparison. Addiction is a mental illness and as such involves at its root impaired thinking. Recovering addicts are not restored to a lack of addiction, but to a place of sanity (at least regarding the consequences of using). As a friend of Bill W, I cant tell you I've never seen a person who truly wanted to recover fail at recovery. Now compare this 100% success rate to the 15% success rate This groups failure strongly suggest the overwhelming majority of people who identify as gay are not affected learning new ways. After all only 15% of the people in this highly self selective group, who most wanted not to be gay were able to unlearn or mask the feelings.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                Not really a good comparison. Addiction is a mental illness and as such involves at its root impaired thinking. Recovering addicts are not restored to a lack of addiction, but to a place of sanity (at least regarding the consequences of using). As a friend of Bill W, I cant tell you I've never seen a person who truly wanted to recover fail at recovery. Now compare this 100% success rate to the 15% success rate This groups failure strongly suggest the overwhelming majority of people who identify as gay are not affected learning new ways. After all only 15% of the people in this highly self selective group, who most wanted not to be gay were able to unlearn or mask the feelings.
                Kind of determined by what you are addicted to. Not all addictions are chemical addictions. Some "addictions" are only "habits".


                "...who most wanted not to be gay were able to unlearn or mask the feelings.."
                Got anything to quantify this? I would say many are exactly where they want to be...in the gay community and they are proud to be there.
                Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                  BF,

                  What are the stats for healed drug addicts?
                  No idea Doc, not my area. Probably depends on methodology. I'll have a look, but the figures I've seen tend to be higher than 15%. There is also a 'like against like' issue here that is particularly problematic with drugs where criminal penalties for possession can add to the problems that drive the addiction. Jailing people & making them harder to employ is a poor foundation for combatting addictions that often thrive in poorer communities to begin with.

                  One point I would make, however. Serious drug addiction necessarily has serious consequences. Most obvious is the physical aspect, but depending on the drug there can also be the wreckage of your life or that of others around you. With some narcotics there is also the risk of death. From that perspective every person who is 'saved' from addiction is spared a potentially serious condition.

                  The negatives relating to homosexuality are socially driven. They are to do with the attitudes of others. The 'ex-gay' movement has actually been a driver of such attitudes by buttressing the idea that it is all a 'lifestyle choice'. In other words the 'problem' here is, to some extent iatrogenic - caused by the attempt to 'cure' it.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                    Kind of determined by what you are addicted to. Not all addictions are chemical addictions. Some "addictions" are only "habits".
                    True enough, i was talking drug addiction and alcoholism.


                    "...who most wanted not to be gay were able to unlearn or mask the feelings.."
                    Got anything to quantify this? I would say many are exactly where they want to be...in the gay community and they are proud to be there.
                    People who were exactly where they wanted to be in the gay community would not check themselves into a group promising to convert them into heterosexuals. Thus the membership is highly self selective from those who did not wish to be gay... and still managed no better than a 15% success rate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Z, I know you have strong views on this, but there is evidence that some people are in fact "born that way"... they have a mixed up brain chemistry. They go through life wondering why everyone around them is happy and productive, and they are not. Then, they take a prescribed vicoden, and are happy for the first time in their lives, because their brains don't make endorphins, or their reward mechanism is messed up.

                      They become opiate seekers, whereas the normal person stops taking them when their pain is gone.

                      No one knows for sure, but some feel that the root of almost all mental illness is biology. Brain chemistry is immensely complicated, as are all the receptors that use them. When they are off, you have mental illness, and sadly an "it's all in your head" thing, as if will-power alone can cure them.

                      A severely depressed individual needs medication to function. A drug addict can easily get through the physical withdrawals... that's the "physical addiction" part. It's the months/years afterward of crushing depression that used to be labeled "mental addiction", that is almost impossible to beat. Many addicts will go to their graves "clean" but still craving a substance that simply makes them feel normal. Like everyone else.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chogy View Post
                        Z, I know you have strong views on this, but there is evidence that some people are in fact "born that way"... they have a mixed up brain chemistry. They go through life wondering why everyone around them is happy and productive, and they are not. Then, they take a prescribed vicoden, and are happy for the first time in their lives, because their brains don't make endorphins, or their reward mechanism is messed up.

                        They become opiate seekers, whereas the normal person stops taking them when their pain is gone.

                        No one knows for sure, but some feel that the root of almost all mental illness is biology. Brain chemistry is immensely complicated, as are all the receptors that use them. When they are off, you have mental illness, and sadly an "it's all in your head" thing, as if will-power alone can cure them.

                        A severely depressed individual needs medication to function. A drug addict can easily get through the physical withdrawals... that's the "physical addiction" part. It's the months/years afterward of crushing depression that used to be labeled "mental addiction", that is almost impossible to beat. Many addicts will go to their graves "clean" but still craving a substance that simply makes them feel normal. Like everyone else.
                        I celebrated 9 years clean on May 25th. In my experience, unless someone became an addict via some medical event (opiates like you said), its not about feeling normal but one of masking pain. The path to sobriety is the same regardless- surrender, admission and hard work. The same things might work with a sex addiction, but thats not what this group was trying to do. Instead this group was trying to change sexual orientation and was highly self selective and failed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          I celebrated 9 years clean on May 25th. In my experience, unless someone became an addict via some medical event (opiates like you said), its not about feeling normal but one of masking pain. The path to sobriety is the same regardless- surrender, admission and hard work. The same things might work with a sex addiction, but thats not what this group was trying to do. Instead this group was trying to change sexual orientation and was highly self selective and failed.
                          I am not convinced as to the motives of those who went into the program. We all know that if someone does not want to change no program will change them. Is there any data on the participants? How many were they self motivated and really wanted to change? How many were they sent there by parents/friends? How many went through the program wanting to fail? How many "just went through it to say they tried"?
                          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Masking pain = feeling normal.

                            Would you deny that there is a biological basis for many chemical addictions? It is well known that alcoholism runs in families. The same might be said of other drugs; a predisposition to addiction exists, and exposure to the chemical that fixes an abberration in the brain is a strong step towards dependency.

                            Perhaps with gays, there may be people on the fence that could go either way, but an experience in adolescence tips the scale, so to speak. We know there are folk who are legitimately bisexual.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                              I am not convinced as to the motives of those who went into the program. We all know that if someone does not want to change no program will change them. Is there any data on the participants? How many were they self motivated and really wanted to change? How many were they sent there by parents/friends? How many went through the program wanting to fail? How many "just went through it to say they tried"?
                              It does not matter if you are convinced or not. Facts are fact, this was a highly self selective group of adults. Not kids forced in to brainwashing by parents but adults who freely chose the program. If you're going to question the motives of people who self select then nothing will convince you.

                              Chogy,

                              Masking pain = feeling normal.
                              There is nothing normal about being blitzed...


                              Would you deny that there is a biological basis for many chemical addictions? It is well known that alcoholism runs in families. The same might be said of other drugs; a predisposition to addiction exists, and exposure to the chemical that fixes an abberration in the brain is a strong step towards dependency.
                              To a point, humans are already wired for addiction. Look at the global caffeine addiction. But regardless of the chemical in question we are talking reward centers in the brain. With sexual orientation (which is an attraction not an action) where is the neural chemical release to trigger the reward? This group tried for decades to get a group of highly self selecting people to stop being attracted to one sex and to start being attracted to the other sex and failed. But you do bring up a good point, how many of the 15% really converted vs how many were bi to begin with and simply chose abstinence with same sex relationships?

                              Perhaps with gays, there may be people on the fence that could go either way, but an experience in adolescence tips the scale, so to speak. We know there are folk who are legitimately bisexual.

                              Comment

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