27 dead in Newtown school shooting

[InExile]

It is my understanding that most of the recent mass shootings were committed by the use of semi-automatic weapons or handguns. It is possible to purchase large quantities of arms and ammunition in the US without setting off any red flags in the system; would it be the same if a terror cell attempted to get their hands on materials for high explosives and related stuff?

A truly determined and devious individual like Brevik could probably pull off a mass murder in any society; even with the strictest gun laws. But it does seem to me that the ease to obtain firearms, especially semi-automatics in the US makes it possible for psychotics like Lanza to commit mass murder with relative ease. Mass shootings have occurred all over the world; but they do seem to be a lot more frequent in the US.

[Officer of Engineers]

I said it was easy. Too easy. I'm not comfortable telling how it could be done but you're looking at terrorism, not murder.

[InExile]

I agree with that. People who are determined to kill other people will find a way. The US is far from the most violent place on earth; countries like Iraq and Pakistan come to mind; where terrorists strike on an frequent basis using a variety of methods; ofcourse changes to gun laws will have no effect there.

However, the problem in the US seems to be an epidemic of mass shootings using handguns and semi automatics; it is atleast worth looking at if there is a causal link between the ease of access of such in the US and the frequency of such attacks; along with considering changes to policy like the Assault weapons ban.

[Minskaya]

Foyer glass at the entrance is too friendly. Locking a door, but having foyer glass, well, just cancels each other out.

Security measures cost money and many US school districts have a very difficult time convincing local voters to approve higher tax-rate referendums. Many have to make due with less than optimal financial resources.

In 1974, 21 Israeli children were killed in a terrorist attack at the Ma'alot school. Security was then improved dramatically. There are now armed guards in every school. Most Israeli parents have military experience and volunteer teams take turns paroling the area around their local school. They communicate via radios and know who should be in the area and challenge all strangers. A quick reaction force of armed at-home parents - both men and women - is always poised to respond immediately to anything/anyone deemed suspicious in the school area. They are pre-authorized to use lethal force if necessary.

[tbm3fan]

At the moment I don't exactly know what can be done to protect schools but I have selfish reasons a way is found. Where I work the town is very similar to Sandy Hook in many ways being just 38 miles from San Francisco. I learned of all this when I opened up CNN at 2:00PM PST. At the time I did that I was in my office and happened to have my almost 4 year old son sitting on my lap. I'm sure some of you can imagine what ran through my mind the instant I read that and the fact that he is only 2 years away from school. It was a safe place for me in 1959 when I started first grade but this incident gives me doubts about today...

Then I see this: Okla. teen arrested in school shooting plot - SFGate

[Doktor]

I agree with that. People who are determined to kill other people will find a way. The US is far from the most violent place on earth; countries like Iraq and Pakistan come to mind; where terrorists strike on an frequent basis using a variety of methods; ofcourse changes to gun laws will have no effect there.

However, the problem in the US seems to be an epidemic of mass shootings using handguns and semi automatics; it is atleast worth looking at if there is a causal link between the ease of access of such in the US and the frequency of such attacks; along with considering changes to policy like the Assault weapons ban.

And yet he didn't obtained the guns... his mother did. The system failed in controlling how those are kept.

[InExile]

And yet he didn't obtained the guns... his mother did. The system failed in controlling how those are kept.

I don't see that as relevant here. There was nothing to stop him from buying the guns himself; if he so chose.

[Doktor]

Oh well, but he didn't. Wonder why. People get crazy ideas and chill out over time, even few hours. Only really determined go all the way.

Wont derail it anymore here.

Parents with guns... teachers beware.

[citanon]

I agree with that. People who are determined to kill other people will find a way. The US is far from the most violent place on earth; countries like Iraq and Pakistan come to mind; where terrorists strike on an frequent basis using a variety of methods; ofcourse changes to gun laws will have no effect there.

However, the problem in the US seems to be an epidemic of mass shootings using handguns and semi automatics; it is atleast worth looking at if there is a causal link between the ease of access of such in the US and the frequency of such attacks; along with considering changes to policy like the Assault weapons ban.

As Col said people who want to take out large numbers of other unsuspecting people do it in all sorts of ways without guns, and it happens rather more often than anyone would like. Forget Iraq and Afghanistan, which are active war zones. Remember the Tokyo subway attacks? In China, besides the knives, there are a number of incidents I recall.

Rather than point to ineffective, simplistic and naive measures that erode our constitutional rights, we should try to think about how to address the roots of the problem, and take effective measures.

[omon]

And yet he didn't obtained the guns... his mother did. The system failed in controlling how those are kept.

not really, she failed, not system.
the authorized owner was in the house.

[Blademaster]

not really, she failed, not system.
the authorized owner was in the house.

That I agreed. For some reason, she bought and kept guns in a house with a 20 year old boy that is a ticking bomb waiting to go off at any moment. I am pretty sure that as this story develops, more details are gonna come out that there were warning signs and the mother deliberately chose to ignore those signs out of blind love and devotion to her son that only a mother can have.

This is one fucked up tragedy with no clear cut answers or solutions. This is one of those times I am pissed off at God.

[USSWisconsin]

Security measures cost money and many US school districts have a very difficult time convincing local voters to approve higher tax-rate referendums. Many have to make due with less than optimal financial resources.

In 1974, 21 Israeli children were killed in a terrorist attack at the Ma'alot school. Security was then improved dramatically. There are now armed guards in every school. Most Israeli parents have military experience and volunteer teams take turns paroling the area around their local school. They communicate via radios and know who should be in the area and challenge all strangers. A quick reaction force of armed at-home parents - both men and women - is always poised to respond immediately to anything/anyone deemed suspicious in the school area. They are pre-authorized to use lethal force if necessary.

This sounds like it might work. It sure would have been nice to have had an military trained father on the roof - with a .308 - to put a fist sized hole between this scum's head and shoulders while he/it was shooting at the the front window (and perhaps a few more in the chest and pelvis).

I also think we need to consider laws to prohibit the media from publicizing killers who have been killed or are in custody (doing nothing to help catch anyone). Knowing they aren't going to get thier manifesto published or become public figures might make it less attractive to these sick bastards. We've got a lot un-doing ahead to make this work - the media has practiacly guarenteed these scum noteriety and enduring fame for doing this kind of shit.

These are crimes of mass destuction and against humanity - they are not conventional crimes - the perps need special treatemnt - prompt trials and executions for survivors, removal of their names from all public records and legal sealing or destruction of all their "works". Perhaps their cremains should be buried at sea so as not to contaminate the same ground as their victims have been laid to rest in.

[Pedicabby]

the perps need special treatemnt

Indeed. A jail sentance of 1 day, to be served in gen pop.

[InExile]

As Col said people who want to take out large numbers of other unsuspecting people do it in all sorts of ways without guns, and it happens rather more often than anyone would like. Forget Iraq and Afghanistan, which are active war zones. Remember the Tokyo subway attacks? In China, besides the knives, there are a number of incidents I recall.

Rather than point to ineffective, simplistic and naive measures that erode our constitutional rights, we should try to think about how to address the roots of the problem, and take effective measures.

I agree that Iraq and Afghanistan are active war zones and it doesnt serve much to compare against that. Also, the US is far from being the country with the highest homicide rate from guns; that is El Salvador which has a death rate from gun violence about 20 times that of the US. But most of the violence there is related to gangs and taking guns away from civilians would do little to solve anything in a case like that.

However, when you compare the US with other developed countries you do see a far higher rate of gun violence. In particular there is a far higher rate of mass shootings. Mass shootings have occurred in almost every country in the world; but anyone can see that it appears to happen with a much higher frequency in the US. There have been 3 this year alone; and that is only the major incidents. Considering the more minor one's there have been about 15 this year. This is when you define a mass shooting as one with multiple victims; and the victims appear to be randomly chosen.

I think you atleast need to consider the possibility that it is the easy access that to semi automatics and handguns in the US that plays atleast some part in this. I agree that you could mass killings that don't involve guns; but it appears to me that the frequency of such appears to be far lower than mass shootings; atleast in the US and other developed countries. So I dont see that as a valid reason for not looking at the issue of gun violence.

The Second Amendment has always permitted the Government to reasonably regulate the ownership and sale of firearms; I don't see laws that attempt to regulate faster weapons like semi automatics like the assault weapons ban being contrary to the second amendment.

[Officer of Engineers]

The reason why they're using firearms is because they're too damned stupid to think of anything else which is EXACTLY WHY I am not comfortable telling would be murderers that there are easier way of doing this. All you need is one and the copy cats will come out in herds.

Citizen snipers won't work. For one, they don't get enough practice. I can drop a moose at 800 yards but only after two weeks of practicing up for the season.

For another, all of you are only thinking this scenario. As I stated, there are easier ways of doing this and what I'm thinking about, a sniper won't be able to stop the killing. If you're just thinking one guard, one man, then to stop what I'm thinking about, that man needs at least a RPG and even then, pray for rain.